Mick Bailey 2/12/2018 3:38 AM
1962 Ampeg Reverberocket screws and foot switch
What are the correct screws for the back panel of this amp? The one I have has had nasty, oversized, zinc-plated twin-thread chipboard screws fitted and I want to get it back to original.

Also, what are the dimensions and construction of the foot switch? It would be good if anyone has pictures.
 
Tom Phillips 2/12/2018 10:32 AM
Mick,
Ampeg used clutch head screws. These days the term clutch head gets used for various types of screws so I've attached a photo of the exact type that Ampeg used.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]47060[/ATTACH]

The closest photos I can find of a real vintage Ampeg are the following of a 1964 Rocket. I included closeups of the screws and the foot switch. The foot switch is hard wired to the chassis.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]47061[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47062[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47063[/ATTACH]

Hope these help.
Tom
 
Enzo 2/12/2018 4:19 PM
And if you look at it, you see they made the foot switch from a door stop.
 
Mick Bailey 2/13/2018 2:19 AM
Well, I learned something there. I don't get to see many old Ampegs and the ones I have all had replacement screws. Either someone harvested them for resale, or switched them out for convenience. I don't think there's much prospect of finding them over here at reasonable cost and may end up using the Phillip's head variety from Fliptops. Even those will probably cost a packet with shipping and import costs. The UK has a punitive policy on items imported from non-EU countries. The threshold is 15 including shipping. A penny over and that price becomes 24.60. If there's import duty payable then this escalates even more. It makes sourcing bits in the US really expensive. Especially so when some suppliers have ridiculous shipping rates to the UK (I was quoted $30 shipping for a single wah inductor from one place as they had set the packaged weight as 2lb) or have flat rates based on minimum weight/volume that penalize small-order items.
 
Justin Thomas 2/13/2018 3:32 AM
I'm not sure my 63 Reverberocket came with the footswitch (had been cut off), but my 66 & 67 Reverberocket IIs both came with 2-button hardwired switches. As for the screws, many owners switched them out for Phillips head; I did. Ie kept some, but I managed to find some "normal" screws of the same length, thread count and pitch, and head size at my hardware store.

Justin
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 4:48 AM
Over the years, I like many others replaced the clutch head screws in those cabinets with phillips, but I keep the old screws. Now that I retire, I have a bin of them. They do sell for stupid money, and I have a buyer for mine.
 
nevetslab 2/13/2018 10:55 AM
It's been years since I've worked on the old Ampegs having htge clutch head screws. What I haven't seen reported in this thread is WHAT the screw size is. # 8-32? # 6-32? # 10-32? Metric thread?
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 11:07 AM
They are wood/sheet-metal screws, so they have a size number, but not a thread count. They would be imperial, not metric, as we did nothing in metric in those days.

I have a box of them in front of me, but no ruler, so eyeballing them, I;d say #8.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/13/2018 11:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by nevetslab View Post
It's been years since I've worked on the old Ampegs having htge clutch head screws. What I haven't seen reported in this thread is WHAT the screw size is. # 8-32? # 6-32? # 10-32? Metric thread?
Holding the back cover on. Round head wood screws maybe #6 or 8.
 
nevetslab 2/13/2018 11:50 AM
Often called 8-15 thread, if memory serves. Thanks. I'ts been over 40 yrs since I've seen one.
 
olddawg 2/13/2018 11:52 AM
I have a 1960 Rocket. The back panel is held on with drywall screws, lol. Works. It's a very ratty, ugly old amp made in NYC. When I use it I just use it as a speaker cab (it has an Emenence in it with the original speaker blown and setting in a box in the garage) and I run an Epi VJ into it (set behind it) and a Bad Monkey and a compressor into that. You would not believe the complements I get on my "vintage" tone and all the questions I get. Lol!
 
g1 2/13/2018 1:06 PM
I think a lot of those screws got replaced because people didn't have a tool for them. In Canada, Robertson (square head) screws are very common, so everyone has at least red and green size Robertson screwdrivers. I believe the green size fits in those and does the job if the head is in good shape. I have the proper clutch head driver but often use the green Robertson as it is usually out with my more common tools.
These screws were more common in classic auto stuff so you can sometimes find them from those type of vendors. However, they don't seem to have the flange like the ampegs do, which is probably why fliptops is selling them for ten bucks each.
 
Justin Thomas 2/13/2018 1:31 PM
Well for that kind of money I'll go dig them out of my junk drawer & sell them at a discount! And mine are VINTAGE!

Justin
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 3:51 PM
I did have the tools and I replaced them anyway. I had hand drivers for my clutch heads, and a phillips driver in my power drill. And even later when I got Xcelite 99 clutch head blades for my 99 holder for my drill, I still would rather just reach for the phillips drill motor and zip open the cab. WHy have odd hardware?
 
Mick Bailey 2/13/2018 3:53 PM
Interestingly, in the book 'Ampeg - the story behind the sound' it states that the move to clutch head screw was made when they changes to the blue check covering.

I've ordered some 4mmx30mm truss-head phillips self-tapping screws in stainless (these have a head diameter of 8.9mm), along with some form G washers that have a diameter of 12mm. I think when these are all polished they'll look like nickel and be visually OK. I gave up on the clutch head screws.
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 4:25 PM
The value of the clutch head screws is when a guy has a vintage piece he wants looking stock and he is missing one or two of the clutch heads.
 
Tom Phillips 2/13/2018 9:12 PM
Every screw I install becomes a "Phillips" screw no matter what the driver shape is.
Tom P
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 9:18 PM
So then when you mix vodka and orange juice?
 
Tom Phillips 2/13/2018 9:50 PM
Nope. Do not dilute!
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 10:03 PM
And at Xmas you roast a Tom Turkey?
 
Tom Phillips 2/13/2018 10:07 PM
An unfortunate expression from my perspective.
 
Enzo 2/13/2018 10:19 PM
Whadaya expect, you dissed my screwdriver joke.
 
Mick Bailey 2/14/2018 7:23 AM
I've found a few pictures of the foot switch for the '62 amp. Mine previously had a metal cradle and there's a shadow and screw holes where this attached. So it should have a metal 2-button switch, but I'm missing the dimensions and how it's constructed. It looks like later amps had a spring retainer and plastic switch.
 
Chuck H 2/14/2018 7:32 AM
Posts #16 to #22 read like a bit piece
 
g1 2/14/2018 12:29 PM
BTW a phillips screwdriver is made with vodka and phillips milk of magnesia, hold the OJ (may cause curdling).
 
The Dude 2/14/2018 2:09 PM
I thought a phillips screwdriver was just a regular screwdriver made with Phillips vodka.
 
Chuck H 2/14/2018 2:23 PM
I thought it was just Phillip's screwdriver.
 
Enzo 2/14/2018 4:42 PM
phillips screwdriver is made with vodka and phillips milk of magnesia
No shit?
 
nosaj 2/14/2018 6:41 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
I thought it was just Phillip's screwdriver.
Some of the japanese manuals they refer to them as positive and negative screwdrivers.
nosaj
 
Chuck H 2/14/2018 10:26 PM
How does a negative screwdriver work? Can I drive home from the bar after drinking a few? Is it a hangover remedy?
 
Chuck H 2/14/2018 10:27 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
BTW a phillips screwdriver is made with vodka and phillips milk of magnesia.
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
No shit?
Ah! You caught the attention of the retired members with that one. Two birds with one stone
 
mtlbasslad 2/15/2018 9:32 AM
On the screwdriver theme, I recently learned (will it ever stop?) about another type...

Besides Phillips & Pozidriv, there is JIS (Japan Industry Standard) used on motorcycles like my Suzuki DL650 which has a slightly different shape - the end is ground flatter.

A mismatch can lead to messing up screwheads, so beware all you screwballs!

There, after 6 years I finally posted something that was not asking for help. Gotta say I get as much in giggles (& occasional snort) as tech advice on this forum
 
Enzo 2/15/2018 10:00 AM
Then look up Reed & Prince, also called Frearson, which is similar to phillips, but instead of the fillet between points, the tip is straight crosspoints.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives
 
mtlbasslad 2/15/2018 11:12 AM
Well, that was a fun read - thanks Enzo. I like the pentalobe...

And now to do something productive with my day
 
Enzo 2/15/2018 11:47 AM
I first saw the tri-wing holding trim strips in place on the Washington DC Metro (subway). I got some, and it seemed about impossible to stick anything in the hole and turn it. A lot of the other types you can find a size of flat screwdriver blade that will wedge into the hole and turn out the screw. The tri wouldn't let me get a grip.

I needed security screws in another industry, and found the spanners were the hardest to extract without the proper driver.
 
Mick Bailey 2/15/2018 11:55 AM
The JIS screws have a punched dot on the head. I didn't know this until about 18 months ago, when I watched a TV programme about a guy rebuilding a Japanese Strat copy and he used the screwdrivers he'd got for his Japanese bikes.
 
Enzo 2/15/2018 11:58 AM
I always used that dot when sorting mixed screws in a jar. I used the dot as an indicator the screw was metric.
 
Mick Bailey 2/16/2018 11:58 AM
I still need the construction details of the foot switch. Here's what it looks like, but I'm seeing double from looking for any pics that show the side and bottom. Does anyone out there have one of these? I'd hate to go to the trouble of fabricating one only to find it was just as easy to get it 100% with the correct info available.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47171[/ATTACH]
 
Enzo 2/16/2018 12:30 PM
Are you trying to make a clone of the original? Because any box with two buttons will serve.
 
Jazz P Bass 2/16/2018 1:43 PM
I thought the FtSw looked like this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47172[/ATTACH]

https://www.fliptops.net/catalog/p-1...vintage-ampegs

Edit: the one that I have shown is from 1964.
The one in the OP's post is before '64.

1962 Ampeg R12-R
[ATTACH=CONFIG]47177[/ATTACH]
 
g1 2/16/2018 6:25 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
1962 Ampeg R12-R
[ATTACH=CONFIG]47177[/ATTACH]
That seems to be the ticket.
Here's another pic:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]47179[/ATTACH]
 
Mick Bailey 2/17/2018 2:32 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Are you trying to make a clone of the original? Because any box with two buttons will serve.
Yes - I want it as close as I can get to the original. Out of all the pics that I can find though, I can't see how the top and bottom are folded and attached.
 
Chuck H 2/17/2018 6:28 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
Yes - I want it as close as I can get to the original.
Then, revisiting the screws, maybe use square drive heads. They can be had in round head wood screws. Actually pan head, but some pan heads are rounder than others. The "look" would be more similar and square drive is common enough that it shouldn't be a problem for maintenance.
 
Mick Bailey 2/17/2018 11:21 AM
I'm now not certain about the screw type. This amp has the original handle screws and these are Phillips, as are the other screws inside the cabinet. Only the back panel screws are non-original. With all of the '62 amps I've looked at, they are either clutch-head or Phillips, not a mixture. Given that '62 was the transition year between the two types, it could be that this amp left the factory with Philips head. I had a '64 AC30 for restoration recently and it had features from '63. Again, a transition year where amps from March '64 could be a hybrid. Some more research is needed to clear this up.
 
Jazz P Bass 2/17/2018 11:43 AM
Here are some pics I grabbed for the ft sw.

The first pic shows rivets at the back.
My take is that the side panels have flaps and are separate & riveted in.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47187[/ATTACH]

In the second two pics (could this amp be any cleaner? What a find!), you can see the construction of the upper shell.
It appears to be one piece and the upper rear part overlaps the lower rear.
(Good luck with all of those bends. Most probably special tooling was used.)

[ATTACH]47189[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]47190[/ATTACH]
 
g1 2/17/2018 2:05 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
My take is that the side panels have flaps and are separate & riveted in.
In your pdf pics, it almost seems the sides may be wood and those are more like tacks than rivets?
 
Jazz P Bass 2/17/2018 2:28 PM
Either way, it must be a hoot changing out the switches.
 
Mick Bailey 2/18/2018 3:24 AM
You know, I never thought that there could be timber involved in the switch construction. It makes sense, because the main eyelet board support in these amps is a strip of wood and that pic certainly looks like the sides are painted timber. The bends are not a problem and I feel closer now to getting there. Just would like to know what that it looks like from underneath and how the top attaches. I can see the return that wraps around underneath that goes part way.

Edit:

Just found this pic which confirms the part-timber construction. Now I'm even more intrigued to know how this fits together - solid core with holes /cutouts, or just timber sides?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47201[/ATTACH]
 
Jazz P Bass 2/18/2018 9:47 AM
I just now saw the side panel wood grain on the pic from post #45.
 
mamcleod 2/20/2018 9:04 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
What are the correct screws for the back panel of this amp? The one I have has had nasty, oversized, zinc-plated twin-thread chipboard screws fitted and I want to get it back to original.
I just posted a ton of Ampeg clutch head screws on ebay, reverb and talkbass. The 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" should work for the back panel, I think.
 
Chuck H 2/20/2018 9:12 PM
Quote Originally Posted by mamcleod View Post
I just posted a ton of Ampeg clutch head screws on ebay, reverb and talkbass. The 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" should work for the back panel, I think.
Filthy money grubber!

Just kidding It's actually good of you to notice this, join the forum and post. But it seems that earlier in this thread the OP discovered that his screws were likely Phillips originally (you may have skimmed past that). But since you're a member, stick around. We do everything here from restoration to poo pooing restoration, but there's room for all.
 
The Dude 2/20/2018 9:15 PM
Quote Originally Posted by mamcleod View Post
I just posted a ton of Ampeg clutch head screws on ebay, reverb and talkbass. The 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" should work for the back panel, I think.
Could you post links in the Plug Your Product/Service section of the forum? It will help those looking find them.
 
Mick Bailey 2/23/2018 3:49 AM
Here's how the first attempt turned out. The size came out as far as I could tell as the face being 4 1/2" x 4" and 1 3/8" deep at the back. I scaled off pictures to locate the switch centres as 1 1/4" down form the top but when I punched the holes they looked too low. So instead of thinking it through made them 1 1/8", only to find they sit 1/8" too near the top and the original measurement was right. The timber infill makes for an immensely strong pedal. It's nice and slim, too - much better than most amp pedals. I left the timber grain partly exposed as per the originals, and scuffed the paint a little with a Scothbrite padto take the edge off it, though the picture makes it looked scratched. At least it gets me to the stage where I can now make up the missing holder/bracket inside the cabinet where the pedal slots in.

When I get some better idea of how the back is attached I'll make another and silk-screen the lettering to give a better look.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47276[/ATTACH]