tedmich 9/13/2015 12:15 PM
President Trump
Is quite a possibility, some here in the USA would be, and are, embarrassed at this prospect.

Some are quite enthusiastic
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some are more amused
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Leo_Gnardo 9/13/2015 12:38 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Is quite a possibility, some here in the USA would be, and are, embarrassed at this prospect.
What, Tr(i)ump(h) the insult candidate? I'm quite sure everyone else in the world sees him for the self-entitled over privileged ass-clown that he is. Looking forward to the day he doesn't get elected then I can sing along with Elvis: "I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused."

May have been "Marketplace" public radio financial show, someone made the point that if the Donald simply took his $40 mil portion of the company daddy gave him, cashed it in, bought S&P500 shares, he'd be worth minimum $3-4 billion now without having to lift a finger or get others involved in flaky real estate deals etc etc. Could have spent his life knocking a ball around a golf course & sipping champagne on his yacht without a care in the world and without making himself a pest to the rest of us. Feh!

For the record I'm no fan of Hillary the carpetbagger either. Don't get me started...
 
nickb 9/13/2015 12:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Is quite a possibility, some here in the USA would be, and are, embarrassed at this prospect.

Some are quite enthusiastic
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some are more amused
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Cripes! That's one creepy bit of Photo-shopping.


C'mom now, there was
Regan - film star
Schwarzenegger - film, er person?
Then there was W.B. - one man comedy show

Why not Trump? It would be funnier then all of them. And how much power do they really have in any case. It's pretty hard for one man to make the machine turn a different way, eh?
 
Mark Hammer 9/13/2015 1:08 PM
People can tell me "I told you so" when the time comes, but here is my bold prediction.

Trump is unique. I doubt whether many, if any, Republican voters view him as simply a better version of some other current candidate, just as I doubt whether they view any other candidates as "almost as good as" Trump, and could "live with" that candidate if it came down to it. If they like him, they don't anybody else, and if they like somebody else, they DON'T like him. His current lead is a reflection of the specific constituency who view him as precisely what is needed. But that's a third or less.

There is a naive assumption, based on other kinds of candidates and races, that it will grow beyond that. But that 30-31% occurs in a field of well over 10 hopefuls, and there is only 100% to divvy up amongst all of them. In time, candidates will drop out, and their constituency will be folded into that of another candidate - not Trump. I don't know who that is, but by the end of it, Trump will still have his steadfast 25-30% (or close to it), someone else will have 40-45%, and the spoils will be divided up amongst maybe 2 or 3 individuals. For any candidates who view Trump as harmful to the Republican brand, the most patriotic thing they can do is drop out and shift their votes to someone else. And I think they know that.
 
big_teee 9/13/2015 1:45 PM
It is early yet.
Next year, will tell the tale?
So Far IMO it's still a clown show!
 
DrGonz78 9/13/2015 3:19 PM
I equate the whole thing to the similar fashion of a school choosing it's mascot. Only thing is this school changes it's mascot every 4-8 years.
 
Enzo 9/13/2015 4:16 PM
It is half a year until even the primaries start. Remember an election or two ago when the front runner and presumed GOP candidate was Rudy Giuliani coming out of Iowa and NH? It is fun to root for trump, why not. But how can anyone seriously think of this moron as presidential? The president may not be able to control the congress and cannot force legislation, but he has a ton of power. He, after all, controls "the button". Remember George W? He started wars in Iraq and Afergranistan, all by his self. A bellicose asshole like trump wouldn't be reticent to start something. On the world scene, his in-your-face approach to everything won't get him any friends.
 
km6xz 9/13/2015 8:37 PM
Actually Trump is the only republican to state he was not interested in wars, all the others have lists of 3-7 countries they want bombed right away. Hillary is pretty hawkish so more wars there also. Koch brothers don't have much sway with Trump so media is trying hard to take him down which just endears him to a segment of the disaffected class. The big losers in this cycle is clearly going to be big media. The two candidates that are not supported by corporate media are ahead in no small part because they are NOT media darlings; Trump and Sanders.
Big money from oligarchs and corporations has been effective when spent on TV in the past. Billions go to TV time. That routine has been disrupted in this cycle, and it bodes badly for TV and big dollar foreign and domestic oligarchs who have used the great investment in conventional campaigns to undermine democracy. But people are bypassing media, they are using direct interaction on social media, email and other systems with no corporate control. Trump and Sanders are both doing it without money, they have some but it does not help. How else can a candidate with virtually no mainstream media coverage, in two days before an event in some mid sized town, turn out 20,000 or 30,000 wildly enthusiastic supporters? If I was heavily invested in one of the networks or cable, I would be looking for an exit strategy, and be prepared to short the stock when they start tanking. The good thing is that by people ignoring media, their power over the narrative and issues ends and the impact of Citizens United drops dramatically. It is not by accident or because of not large enough ad budgets where all the mainstream status quo establishment candidates are floundering. Bush and Clinton have over $100,000,000 each in their media budget and they are both dropping in the polls. This is a good thing.
Trump is a buffoon or course but he is an independent buffoon and that is good enough for millions of people who are sick of business as usual. Sanders is not a buffoon, he is the only one who might be able to help but the electorate is not very good at picking good candidates as demonstrated consistently for 60 years or more. But if wiser decisions are made, Sanders could easily be this century's FDR. Leading in the polls for the first two primaries and no exploitable baggage , despite no coverage at all by MSM, and with only 25% name recognition now it might be a rout. On the other hand, Trump might be a nutcase but he has less nutty policies(those few actually stated) than the rest of the right wing clown car. Seriously, the candidates on that side are losers exactly as Trump says. What has any of them accomplished in their lives, except possibly Carson, but who shows signs of serious mental illness and crazy thinking. Koch inc must be panicking seeing the $900,000,000 they promised to inject to turn the US back to 1880s is having no effect.
 
g1 9/13/2015 9:56 PM
Go Bernie!
 
loudthud 9/14/2015 3:20 PM
Now let me see if I have this right. Most voters are idiots. They have no idea who to vote for if they even vote at all. Most rely on advise from friends or what they see on TV including comedy shows. That's why the media has such a big influence. And the key to that influence is how much a candidate spends on advertising. Better than 90% of elections are won by the candidate that spends the most money. Some studies put the number as high as 96%. All the while a candidate must be carefull not to say anything that will piss off any voters in a particular group. Then when they get into office, they renege on all the campaign promises they made and do whatever it takes to get campaign donations from the rich people, unions and special interest groups so they can win the next election. Now, the Supreme Court has made it a First Amendment right to bribe a politician with campaign donations. The cycle is complete, perpetual bad government. Remember the auto industry bail out? 9 out of 10 calls to Washington were against it. Ever wonder who made the 1 out of 10 calls that politicians listened to?
 
The Dude 9/14/2015 3:46 PM
What I find amusing is this. Only a few years ago, most of my republican friends were nauseated by the prospect of Trump running for office. Any serious campaign by him would have been considered a joke. They, at that time and as I still do, considered him to be the arrogant ass clown he is. Now that he is the RNC front runner, these same people are propping him up and singing his praises as if he's had a recent brain transplant.
 
Bill Moore 9/14/2015 5:16 PM
The last 2 election cycles, voters have sent candidates to congress who vowed to clean up the Obama mess, however, once they are there, even with a majority, they decide to go along with the status quo! The Senate should have kept Harry Reid's "nuclear option" until things were fixed, but McConnell has no backbone.
I personally like Cruz, but Trump seems to be saying the right things that make people think he could get a handle on the mess that Obama has created.
 
The Dude 9/14/2015 9:20 PM
Yes, any man who has filed for bankruptcy 4 times surely knows how to get a handle on things.
 
g1 9/14/2015 9:44 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Trump seems to be saying the right things that make people think he could get a handle on the mess that Obama has created.
Yes, people need to look back to how great it was before Brock messed everything up.
If you really believe that, then maybe the Donald is your man.
Let me tell ya what, how many US presidents have their own "Rushmore" on mars?
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Justin Thomas 9/14/2015 10:16 PM
It's not the views that scare me. His presentation will get us all blowed up. Canadia and Mayheeko too. Maybe even Argenrtinia.

And if we want someone to un-bankrupt the country, The Donald is NOT my first choice.

That said, I'm not getting into a pissing contest over this one... later y'akls!

Justin
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/14/2015 10:29 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Yes, any man who has filed for bankruptcy 4 times surely knows how to get a handle on things.
File, hell that's nothing. Any moron can do that. Come thru with your fortune intact, now that's almost impressive. "Fooled 'em again! What can I get away with next ?????" Got low friends in high places, that's all it proves.

Bankruptcies were baked into the plans from the beginning. That's how you win, it's legal to cheat. Standard Operating Procedure for big biz, airlines did it in the 80's, banks in the late 00'. That's why you hire teams of smart lawyers, read the rules & finesse them every way you can, including bribing those who write the rules & those who can be bought off to not enforce them. America, what a wonderful country!
 
The Dude 9/14/2015 10:36 PM
You do understand I was being cynical?
 
J M Fahey 9/15/2015 4:43 AM
FWIW, seen from outside, any and all candidates are exactly the same
Plus there's only 2 parties and Big Money contributes to both so no matter who wins, Big Things stay the same.
Expect no surprises.
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/15/2015 6:35 AM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
You do understand I was being cynical?
Yes indeed Duderino! There is some truth to be found by digging into that cynicism. The story behind the joke, as it were. No worries, I'm right there with you.

To be accurate we must also recognize that Chump's bankruptcies were four of his business projects, no personal bankruptcy, no no no... it could never be allowed to happen that Mighty Mouth would be totally beggared. Just his co-investors.

Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey
there's only 2 parties and Big Money contributes to both so no matter who wins, Big Things stay the same.Expect no surprises.
That too Juan. Those expecting big changes after the 'Bammer took office are still sorely disappointed. It seems all the bureaucrats and government employees who continued in their jobs still thought they were working for Bush/Cheney & company, their policies of meanness and inattention for the most part continue unchanged. Plus ca change, plus le meme-chose. (please pardon my lack of cedillas & carats French scholars.)
 
km6xz 9/15/2015 7:35 AM
This early run up is very different than the past 25 years or so. The ones generating the excitement are not spending money on ads and spots. The whole advert industry is in turmoil since big ad campaigns are less effective in driving consumer action than ever before. Because big business is conventional and traditional, they keep spending billions on TV commercials and sponsoring teams that just do not work anymore. A few smaller agencies blew things up in the last 6-7 years by staging cheap guerrilla promotion that cost very little but had tremendous influence on consumers. The big agencies, to save their accounts are creating their own subdivisions only remotely connected to the main agency. The new style that has transformed a number of industries relies on the fact that readers of blogs, forums and social media will believe anything from people posting as if they were real. The user review web sites such as Amazon, Trip Advisor, various camera forums and blogs have shifted the would markets in travel, consumer items, cars, movies etc. Using these tactics of fake reviews or faker reviewers, paid forum posts, bot generated responses monitoring hundreds of thousands of blogs and reader comment sites. This is the reason the major hotel chains are getting clobbered by mini-hotels or small operators in every market, same with restaurants for tourists, the highest rated are never the ones locals who know them all, would have even had on the list. Each fake review for a small hotel in a large markets might be worth $25k-100k in additional sales. Consumers believe user review sites orders of magnitude more than traditional ads or even their travel agent. Music equipment is getting the same treatment.
This means ads still cost millions to create and 10s of millions to run on national networks, but they have little impact now. Ad buys are done by agencies because they are expensive and they get a 15% commission on those buys even if they do not work, and they know they do not work.
Bernie and The Donald are not spending money, they do not need to this cycle as long as the keep the professional "expert" campaign staffs away from the budgets. Instead of pay-for-posts that swamp opinion pages of newspapers, forums and review sites(going pro rate for posting is $10/post), Bernie has energized an army of dedicated fans who are having the same impact but for free. Clinton is relying on corporate ad agencies and consultants so will get much less impact from her hundreds of millions in wall street donations.
So this might be the first internet and social media driven election where prime candidates are not running conventional ads and in the case of Bernie, not even mentioned by major networks. The major networks trying to undermine him will hurt them permanently. Viewers are hip to what they are doing and will increasingly ignore the network content and "news". Just think of how you heard of his legions of followers, it was not on mainstream TV. of the cable networks, CNN and MSNBC apparently are forbidden from mentioning his name.
 
Bill Moore 9/15/2015 9:43 AM
Prior to the community organizer, we have never had 94 million people out of work! So the answer is to disregard our southern border, and let in the rest of Mexico's population? (70% of whom receive welfare assistance, contrary to federal law).
The headlines yesterday, Obamacare has to double enrollment next year, or it completely crashes!
We need to shut this crap down before we are in the position of Greece!
 
g1 9/15/2015 11:29 AM
I guess if you're Cruz, that 94 million "not participating in the workforce" sounds a lot worse than the actual 9 million unemployed, doesn't it?
Especially when non-discerning readers will just repeat it as "out of work". You know it includes all the retired, disabled, and students, right?
Due to the boomers, I doubt there have ever been as large a portion of the population retired, either.
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/15/2015 11:32 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Prior to the community organizer, we have never had 94 million people out of work! So the answer is to disregard our southern border, and let in the rest of Mexico's population? (70% of whom receive welfare assistance, contrary to federal law).
Really have to question 94 million. Does that include infants and children, the aged, infirm, prisoners, retired folks enjoying their golden years, self employed, discouraged workers who don't bother applying for benefits, illegal aliens plus their kids uncles aunts grannies & grampas, welfare queens & kings, etc? They're all "unemployed" plus a few more sectors I haven't thought of. Geeze 94 million looks like a LOW number when you add 'em all up.

I keep mentioning Saint Dubya's statements about "we have to let these people in to do the jobs Americans won't do." At that time an average of 70,000 illegal immigrants were stopped at or near the border, given appearance tickets, none of them showed up for their hearings of course, they just continued on to Everywhere USA including Your Town and My Town. And that's just 70,000 that got caught, 840,000 per year, how many didn't get caught? All waved in with a wink from The Chief Executive and Commander in Chief.

Some reading material you may enjoy in links below. These are taken to be "Conservative" publications & websites. Lots of interesting comments plus a terrific letter to the President. Even when this press conference took place in 2004 the meaning of his statements supports the notion that Big Business will continue to be ever more profitable, and continue to make major donations to their political friends and enablers, when they have a permanent underclass of cheap labor they can count on to do the jobs that Americans won't do plus an awful lot of jobs that Americans WILL DO. No small surprise that things continue much the same as before, your current President is plenty Conservative, he just belongs to the wrong party, has the wrong color skin, and isn't way off on the far end of the "right" spectrum as good proper Americans should be. Maybe he wasn't born in the right country either but too bad, it's way too late to do anything about that. Das ist mir doch alles Wurst: they grind out the same old sausage, chorizo mostly. Learn to like it. In our lifetime it would be a miracle if anything changed, aka S.O.S. every day no matter who's "in charge."

Enjoy reading, this is for EVERYBODY ! ! ! ! !

Bush Immigration Comments in Press Conference - Articles - THE AMERICAN RESISTANCE FOUNDATION

Same, but with hundreds of comments following:

Bush Immigration Comments in Press Conference and Full Transcript.

A to-the-point letter to the President:

Jobs Americans Won`t Do? An Open Letter To President George W. Bush | VDARE - premier news outlet for patriotic immigration reform

Yet more, our cup runneth over!

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art...cle_1372.shtml

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art...cle_1370.shtml
 
tedmich 9/15/2015 12:06 PM
"jobs American's won't do"

ie at that rate of pay.

And jobs are a completely marginal part of the economy; capital is striving to be human free and to a great extent, it already is.
You'd have to be mentally ill to invest in anything but the imaginary economy of the US. The growing "non-investment class" is left to fight the more desperate people of the world over the craps that remain; less and less each year.

Ross Perot was wrong the "giant sucking sound" wasn't old fashioned jobs going across boarders, it was all $ flowing to the "fantasy economy". People are increasingly unneeded and irrelevant. "Increased efficiency" means you can efficiently remove 99% of the population from the capital equation, and then strive to remove the next 0.9% etc. etc.
 
J M Fahey 9/15/2015 12:16 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Prior to the community organizer, we have never had 94 million people out of work! So the answer is to disregard our southern border, and let in the rest of Mexico's population? (70% of whom receive welfare assistance, contrary to federal law).
The headlines yesterday, Obamacare has to double enrollment next year, or it completely crashes!
We need to shut this crap down before we are in the position of Greece!
Dear Bill, the missing jobs were not sucked by cheap labor immigrants within the borders (otherwise there would still be HUGE car/TV/steel/plastics/clothing/motorcycles/fridges/washers/you-name-it Factories, just manned by illegal immigrants) but by cheapest, slave conditions workers from the other side of the World.

No, they are not (nor will ever be) inside USA borders, so no Social Security/Health/Education users, but that's not the point, which is that their *Products* , the result of their workforce get freely inside, no Tariff or quotas to stop them, so it's an illusion today to start any kind of manufacturing Company and dream of making it big.

Yes, there are probably a few small niches (say, Mesa Boogie) who can fight ... a waterdrop in the Ocean.

As of comparing with Greece?

Think again: the situationn is *far worse* , the difference is that Greece is a small weak Country and nobody forgives it a cent, while USA is the 500 pound Gorilla you simply cannot push around, with huge political, economic and military power , most of it remains of its glory days, from WW2 until the 70's .

But guess what, it's still undisputed king only on the Military side, and that at a great expense (and even so can't "win" in Irak or Afghanistan, 2 really backward Countries) ; politically: smaller challengers are appearing, and in economics, well, the Chinese gorilla is already weighing 250 pounds ... and growing.
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/15/2015 12:28 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
"jobs American's won't do"

ie at that rate of pay.
Couple bucks an hour, then.

Now we have border-jumpin' day laborers assembled 6-7 AM at Home Despot & Load's, don't bother offering them $5 or even $10, they start at $15/hour take it or leave it.
 
Bill Moore 9/15/2015 1:22 PM
Table A-1. Employment status of the civilian population by sex and age
We don't have the large manufacturing anymore, that relies on semi, or unskilled labor, that unions used to exploit. But we also don't have the "Bracero" program where my grandpa. and uncle could get farm help back in the 60's. There was an article yesterday on local radio, that the chile growers were moving to different crops, as labor was hard to find. What jobs, (if any) are the illegals getting? I understand MS-13 is doing a lot of recruiting here in the States!
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/15/2015 2:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
What jobs, (if any) are the illegals getting?
Around here, construction/demolition, brush clearing, yard work for the Home Despot/Load's day workers. One of my customers doesn't want to climb ladders, so hehired a guy for $100 to scoop leaves & debris out of his roof gutters, yank weeds & spruce up the yard for a 6-7 hour day. Says he did a good job and was glad to earn the c-note. Local teenagers are mostly too busy staring at their plastic pocket pals to do much actual work BUT I'll bet there's a couple that would have been glad to put aside their smarty-pants phones a couple hours for the same deal. Where do you find them...

In another town a woman did hire a couple of local teens and they set to work shoveling snow and ice a couple years ago. Didn't get too far before a neighbor saw them, dialed in a complaint, inspector came around, forced them to stop because it's a violation of child labor laws, wrote her a summons. They weren't working cheap either, I think it was $50 for maybe 2 hours work for the two teens. And the snow didn't get shoveled. Just try to do things right, see what happens. Would that neighbor have called if Pablo and Pedro were shoveling the snow? I bet not.

- - - - - - - - - - -

BLS labor table: simply subtract civilian labor force from civilian non-institutional population (what's the definition of non-institutional? Not in school, not in armed forces, not in prison, not in mental hospitals, not in nursing homes, not in Congress?). The result "Not in labor force" Aug '15 94 million, OK I see where they get that. Out of that 94 million only 6 million want to find jobs. So who are the remaining 88 million "slackers" exactly? Wives and mothers who do PLENTY of work at home caring for their families but not counted as part of labor because they don't get paychecks? Sounds like a short-sighted politician's rhetoric to refer to them as unemployed slackers; if the wives understand that they are being insulted, who are they gonna vote for? Some dipsy doodle that counts their effort as nought? 88 million is quarter of the country more or less. Does this count authentic US citizens or everybody that's here legal or not? And what was the "participation rate" in years past. Inquiring minds want to know. Food for thought, thanks for posting that Bill!
 
Enzo 9/15/2015 3:03 PM
Currently we have 319 million population. I might believe 29% of us are not employed, but I doubt they are all unable to find jobs.
 
Bill Moore 9/15/2015 5:31 PM
Leo, the numbers are free!
A-1. Employment status of the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years and over, prior years to date
I think the "slackers" may be comprised of many individuals who no longer qualify for any gov't handouts, so they write them off to give the illusion that unemployment is down.
Juan, unfortunately, we are no longer respected as a military power, Obama has seen to that. I heard someone commenting a few days ago that the US was able to keep the bad guys in check, so the Europeans could buy votes with social programs, instead of military spending. We used to! Now I wouldn't expect help from anyone if we don't pay our bills.
As a kid that grew up tough, I know you better be ready to back up your bluff, Even if you lose the fight, the other guy is hurt enough that he won't try to pick on you anymore. As a country we don't even bother to swat the easy flies, and capitulate to dictators at any cost.
 
The Dude 9/15/2015 5:51 PM
Interesting that you should use that graph to make your point. Looking at it, I notice that when Obama took office in 2009 the unemployed percent of the labor force was 9.3%. It has continued to decrease to it's current 5.1%, which would indicate that there were a larger percentage of "slackers" under the previous republican administration.
 
J M Fahey 9/15/2015 7:18 PM
The problem is not only unemployment *numbers* but remaining employment *quality* .

For the average Joe, the best quality work is in Industry, which to boot carries good salaries, benefits, stability, etc.

And such a worker soon becomes skilled in what he does, even if a very narrow field, (say he's very fast and efficient in fixing the window rising mechanism inside a car door or whatever) and can command a somewhat highner salary for that.

I am an Industrial Engineer , not an EE , and let me tell you I have no problem whatsoever in paying a guy 20/30/40 U$ an hour, whatever, ... if at the end of the day he puts out a ton of parts he's making or properly finishes a lot of assembly work.

My parameter is not $-per-hour but cents-per-part or to be more precise, finished, ready to sell parts total cost.

Surprise!!!! : in a cost sheet in any modern production system labor cost is but a small part

Those Chinese have not sucked jobs out of USA because they work for a rice spoonful 18 hours a day (not anymore at least) , but because their Government stood behind them 200% helping and financing high Tech equipment, plus underrating their own coin so anything made there is cheap to foreigners plus making political/economic deals with everybody (now they are conquering the World with Railroads, will detail that later) .

Plus USA let border doors wide open (no, I'm not talking across the Rio Grande) because *a few* (think Wal Mart and a Million other *shops*) are doing fine, and investors are making big "paper" gains investing in Asia (who do you think provided the real U$ to finance them? Not Tokyo or Seoul or Beijing governments)

So USA lost this:
[IMG]https://4wheelonlineblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/2tier4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://s3.amazonaws.com/media.wbur.org/wordpress/11/files/2015/06/0603_chrysler-plant.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://c8.alamy.com/comp/AEPR7A/auto-worker-in-detroit-AEPR7A.jpg[/IMG]

(by the way, you call any of them "unskilled" or "semiskilled" or "union slave" and they will gladly crack your skull open with a 24"wrench)

but don't worry, now Detroit became
[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/03/detroit-packard-plant-628.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.robertneralich.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/aLevineMuse2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/abandoned-factory-detroit-cindy-lindow.jpg[/IMG]

don't worry, cars are still needed, made and sold, but now by the Japanese:
[IMG]http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/04/honda_factory_worker-466x350.jpg[/IMG]
 
The Dude 9/15/2015 7:43 PM
Juan,

I couldn't agree more. So let's elect a president who does this.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35707[/ATTACH]

or this

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35708[/ATTACH]
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/15/2015 7:46 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Leo, the numbers are free!
A-1. Employment status of the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years and over, prior years to date
I think the "slackers" may be comprised of many individuals who no longer qualify for any gov't handouts, so they write them off to give the illusion that unemployment is down.
Juan, unfortunately, we are no longer respected as a military power, Obama has seen to that. I heard someone commenting a few days ago that the US was able to keep the bad guys in check, so the Europeans could buy votes with social programs, instead of military spending. We used to! Now I wouldn't expect help from anyone if we don't pay our bills.
As a kid that grew up tough, I know you better be ready to back up your bluff, Even if you lose the fight, the other guy is hurt enough that he won't try to pick on you anymore. As a country we don't even bother to swat the easy flies, and capitulate to dictators at any cost.
Thanks Bill once again. Yes the numbers are free, public info, ya gotta know what buttons to push to get to them. I see some interesting stats & trends. Lets see, a 49.7% increase in civilian non-institutionalized population from 1980 to Aug 2015. And a 54.6% rise in "not in labor force" 1980 up to present. Sure I'd like to see more legitimate citizens gainfully employed, and a quick blink would have it that we now have 10% more slackers per unit of population. One thing the chart doesn't seem to take into account is early retirement among baby boomers. Maybe some of those awful slackers took company buyouts & now collect pensions, do the actuaries who compile these stats count those "working age" therefore "should be working" people in the CNIP? Around here IBM and other big outfits offer retirement buyouts to late 50's workers like candy. I suspect it's a trend all around. If you put in 25 years at Amalgamated Tunafish and they offered you a cool quarter-mil staggered in 50K/year payouts so you didn't have to suffer a tax hit, then collect a smidge less than the 30 year pension you expected, tell me you wouldn't take it. 5 more years to live your own life, hit the golf course, go sailing, cruise the world, sit around watch TV, whatever. That may not explain the 10% runup in apparent slackers but it's sure some of 'em. We also don't know if the actuaries are counting in undocumented workers who are without a doubt part of our population whether we like it or not.

Back to the last chart, Employment Status by Sex & Age. August 2015 figures have 32,185,000 men over 20 not in labor force, 56,253,000 women over 20 same, and 11,012,000 youngsters 16 to 19, it adds up as it should to the 94 million non-participants mentioned. So how many of those women are housewives? No paycheck but again it IS work, I'm sure your wife has reminded you on occasion. Now it's trendy to be a house husband, if wifey's working and making good loot, might not be acceptable to some but so what, bet there's a couple million of them. And the 11 million, lots of unemployed youth, when was that not the case. Oh yes when we had the draft and sent half of 'em off to make men of them. Or casualties... Now it sounds like I'm making excuses for bazillions of slackers but we just don't really have a handle on what most of those 88 million non-job-seekers are up to, it sure would be interesting to know what a quarter of the population is up to. It's a mystery, if anybody has an answer please let us know.

One more look at the chart you just brought up, stats from 1980 to present, the percentage of population employed varies from 57.8% to 64.4%, currently reported as 59.4%, a little disappointing but not way off in either direction. Interesting to see the top figure in 2000. Companies must have been hiring hand over fist in anticipation of doing land-office business under the up & coming Dubya administration.

Also noted, the CNIP as % of population topped out at 67.1% flat from 1997 to 2001. Two out of three people available to work, potentially, plus a snip more. 62.9% at minimum, that's the figure right now. Slackers or early retirees, or people pushed out of full time jobs, replaced with younger cheaper maybe undocumented or unreported part time workers, what? We dunno... That last one happened to me 10 years ago, needless to say it didn't feel very good but I did have the small satisfaction of watching my ex employers flounder then expel their "trusted" long term management half a year later. So I got to work wrenching amps for a sort of living & here I am. In good company too, yez all good people.

As for military toughness and stomping all the bad guys, USA has had a miserable record from 1946 onward. I s'pose Saint Ronald gets the prize for a successful campaign in Granada to stop Cuban expansion in the Caribbean. And St. Ron also convinced USSR's Gorbachev to wind down their nuclear program, promising that the USA would spend trillions to send nuclear-bomb powered particle beam weapons into space to shoot their ICBM's as they arced into space. A dicey program at best & thank goodness still an unaccomplished figment of science fiction but the bluff worked. Not long after the Soviet Union crumbled but that doesn't mean the bear is incapable of a fight.

Ex CIA chief George H W Bush ran a real thriller-diller in Panama, to put shackles on former CIA "good boy" Manuel Noriega who wasn't sharing enough of his drug shipping profits with them. Ol' Pineapple face served 18 years in Club Fed, then a year or so in France and now presumably jailed in Panama. But the flow of blow continues unabated, doesn't it.

So what should be done? Do we pick a nuclear blowout with Putin over Ukraine? Pave Iran with plutonium killing millions of innocent citizens in a horrible way while the mullahs hide deep in their bunkers. Daesh/ISIS doesn't have a headquarters, too bad because they really are a gang of king size stinkers that deserve to be wiped out. All the highly trained, well-paid generals & admirals can't figure out what to do, you think the Prez has any better idea? At least the one we have now isn't inclined to "reach out and hurt somebody" the way Iraq and Afghan wars were started up in response to 9/11. Saddam was inexcusable and needed to go, but without a strong man government Iraq is helpless. Nobody in USA military/politic understood the long running Sunni/Shi'ite rift before we went in, including the first time early 90's. Whatever we do they'll keep battling each other endlessly. President Nixon got it right in "Six Crises": "There is no point in trying to bring democracy to the Middle East." They don't understand it, they never had a Magna Carta moment. Besides, there's so many tempting trouble spots to go and kick ass, and not prevail, and run up US debt to new astronomical amounts, because war is good for business isn't it? We can't win a one of 'em but we can sure make Dickwood Cheney's friends so rich they could live a thousand lifetimes and still not run out of money. Because that's the glorious thing to do! Note "boots on the ground" aren't sons of the rich... gotta keep those legs attached because a lifetime of golf and easy living beckon. Somehow many good folks seem to have taken on worship of money and those who have lots of it, and we'll impoverish ourselves to make sure they get more more more of it. Wherever the USA tries to flex what's left of its might, there's people who will retaliate and the game's a lot different than it was 70 years ago. The world IS a lot smaller, the bad guys really can get to us, Homeland Security puts on a half-assed show of "security theatre" from the moment they were founded, the alphabet soup agencies who are supposed to protect us are locked in their own internecine battles over many decades, they'll spend more time and brain power trying to prove who's best, CIA or FBI, rather than do the real job they're supposed to do. The game goes on and on no matter who is President so don't get your hopes up. For real, what would a President Trump do, offer to build casinos and McMansions for the enemies of the USA? Or shake his pretty pink little fists & start up another expensive endless war or three, keep the game going to keep the game going, to quote Senator Admiral John McCain. War without end, amen, amen.
 
J M Fahey 9/15/2015 8:21 PM
Funny thing is that Japanese Management can succeed even outside Japan, using local workforce :

Toyota factory in Derby, UK:
[IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/18/article-1149303-006542FB00000258-733_468x286.jpg[/IMG]

although they somewhat remind Samurai Warriors by the helmet style, skin and slanted eyes, these workers are actually Mexicans in a Honda plant.
Don't worry about them crossing the border and stealing (now dwindling) USA`jobs, worry about their *cars* getting in with no tariff and sterilizing any USA industrial effort:
[IMG]http://jto.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/p6-mexico-a-20140315.jpg[/IMG]

and it's not that Asians don't strike or have unions, here's a very militarized "worker's resistance" group which occupied Korea's Ssangyong car factory, so far for 10 weeks ... yet Korean cars still are cheaper than American ones, and freely get in:
[IMG]http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2009-08/photo_verybig_106536.jpg[/IMG]

now how do Germans, a first world Country by any definition, with excellent schools, health, worker protection, pensions, good salaries, manage to compete?
They keep well ahead of the pack in Technology, including highly automated and efficient Factories:
[img]http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10359794.ece/alternates/w620/Volkswagen-factory.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://viralportal.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/assembly-robot-kills-worker-at-volkswagen-plant-in-germany-485851-2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i1.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/BN-EI445_0901eu_P_20140901034729.jpg[/IMG]

I am certain that USA has tons of bright people inside ... but also guess that most are attracted into the Finance World, very few into Industry.
 
Justin Thomas 9/15/2015 8:41 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post

I am certain that USA has tons of bright people inside ... but also guess that most are attracted into the Finance World, very few into Industry.
Or they're attracted to shutting industry down in the name of owls and flowers and bushes...

Justin
 
J M Fahey 9/15/2015 8:59 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Juan,

I couldn't agree more. So let's elect a president who does this ... or this ...
That's why I said "all are the same" , I don't care he's Ronald Mc Donald, none of them will change the way things are running now.

FWIW my Brother in Law used to be one of UNOCAL 76 Vicepresidents, and he always sent me Company T shirts, which I was very grateful for because USA clothing in general is made for .... ahem!!!! .... "large guys" so they fit me perfectly.
And he did so for , say, 20 years.
Now the funny thing is that they all are visibly the same (there must be a written spec somewhere) ... but from all over the world.

Very high quality stuff but labels varied: Made in: Guatemala/Honduras/Bangla Desh/Pakistan/you name it .
Not even the earliest ones were USA made and we are talking 25 years ago.
FWIW UNOCAL paid good money for them .

And what's he doing now?
He survived a couple fusions/absorptions , what included having the new CEO ordering him to prune and fire 40% of his workforce or *he* would be fired ... people who he had assembled into an efficient team for many years.
Then Phillips Petroleum, one of the "seven sisters" , the World's most powerful Oil companies , absorbed Unocal, just to close it and keep its network of "76" service stations all over California, he was given the choice of either moving to Phoenix headquarters or get his accumulated Pension and Retirement funds in cash, in full, he chose this and bought what seems to be one of the remaining USA economy "industries" 3 fast food restaurants, Wiener Schnitzel in Irvine and around Orange County.

Short story? : because of the Crisis customer base plummeted to 1/3 of the size when he bought them, many nearby workers choosing to carry a sandwich and an apple from home instead of "eating out" (no kidding) .

He sold them (with difficulty) and started working again in the Oil Industry, this time at "Chemical Engineering" , the guys who sell you a used/burnt car oil recycling plant, key in hand.
Sounds good , but apparently, no matter what is preached or claimed in TV shows, truth is that not that much is invested in real recycling, maybe Oil companies want to just sell fresh oil, so the Company struggled.

Today? Still in the Oil industry, now managing an oil products (whatever you can imagine) distribution company, whatever you can transport from here to there in their bright polished stainless steel tanker trucks (to minimize sun heating product evaporation).

So although he still has a job, it has always been slowly spiraling down, like many others.

In take him as a *real* sample of work quality evolution.

Oh well.

GOOD news, for me, is that he'll soon retire and both will move to Buenos Aires
 
Enzo 9/15/2015 10:47 PM
unfortunately, we are no longer respected as a military power
Really? In what part of the world do they say, "Oh, the Americans. Foo, they couldn't harm us in the least with their puny military."??? Who thinks they would defeat us mano a mano with their army? What country would be willing to trade cruise missiles back and forth? Who wants to take on our submarine fleet. I will assume even the Russians and Chinese would not take lightly the idea of trading nuke missiles from under the sea, but aside from that, who might want to play submarine battle? China is working on them, but who even has submarines, Russia and the UK, anyone else we can't beat?

Sending our military into Afghanistan was a fools errand, but whose army was better at it than ours? The Russians gave up and left. The Iraq invasion, well you can debate whether we should have or not, and you can debate what our GOALS should have been, but when judging the military, didn't it seem a little one sided to you?

The world may see us as bullies, or sticking our noses in where they don't belong. The world may not like our politics. But I think it is ludicrous to say the world poo-poos our military.
 
J M Fahey 9/16/2015 3:11 AM
Just sayin' , didn't find the words "Foo", "they couldn't harm us in the least" or "puny" in Bill's post.

As of trading Nukes, NO one will do that if he can avoid that for any means, not even USA.

Even "winning" means losing, because the price to pay is way too high.

A couple years ago there was a famous Diplomatic incident, quickly dismissed by all involved, both sides (that alone means a lot): in some Diplomatic Reception a Chinese General had drunk one too many and became belligerant arguing with some US diplomat, irritating him so much that he audibly muttered "we can easily nuke your f*cking Country" or something very similar.
The Chinese answered "we too"
The American laughed and said "we have 6800 warheads vs. your 18 "
The Chinese said: "18? ... you are very well informed ... so let's count: Washington / LA / NY / SF / Chicago / ............... "

2 days later both sides apologized, said it had been a misunderstood friendly joke, swore eternal friendship, yada yada yada.

Fact is that what both said is true, unfortunately.

FWIW AFAIK N. Korea has only 1 or 2 , India a couple, Pakistan 1 or 2 ... yet nobody, not even China, Russia or USA is messing with any of them, besides showing the teeth and growling a little.

Back to conventional weapons, obviously neither Irak nor Afghanistan nor Vietnam could ever damage USA , yet nobody could ever subdue them.

"Nobody" includes former Empires, of course, from Rome to Alexander to Brits/French/Russians .

China could not win their war against Vietnam !!!!!

I always read History ... to know the Future
 
J M Fahey 9/16/2015 3:12 AM
Just sayin' , didn't find the words "Foo", "they couldn't harm us in the least" or "puny" in Bill's post.

As of trading Nukes, NO one will do that if he can avoid that for any means, not even USA.

Even "winning" means losing, because the price to pay is way too high.

A couple years ago there was a famous Diplomatic incident, quickly dismissed by all involved, both sides (that alone means a lot): in some Diplomatic Reception a Chinese General had drunk one too many and became belligerant arguing with some US diplomat, irritating him so much that he audibly muttered "we can easily nuke your f*cking Country" or something very similar.
The Chinese answered "we too"
The American laughed and said "we have 6800 warheads vs. your 18 "
The Chinese said: "18? ... you are very well informed ... so let's count: Washington / LA / NY / SF / Chicago / ............... "

2 days later both sides apologized, said it had been a misunderstood friendly joke, swore eternal friendship, yada yada yada.

Fact is that what both said is true, unfortunately.

FWIW AFAIK N. Korea has only 1 or 2 , India a couple, Pakistan 1 or 2 ... yet nobody, not even China, Russia or USA is messing with any of them, besides showing the teeth and growling a little.

Back to conventional weapons, obviously neither Irak nor Afghanistan nor Vietnam could ever damage USA , yet nobody could ever subdue them.

"Nobody" includes former Empires, of course, from Rome to Alexander to Brits/French/Russians .

China could not win their war against Vietnam !!!!!

I always read History ... to know the Future
 
km6xz 9/16/2015 6:23 AM
The whole ecomomy has shifted to "gig" work which is not listed in these reports. Millions earn cash for living with day jobs or driving for Uber. Whole industries are moving to "casual" workers who are not on any books. One estimate is that 1/3 of all new jobs created in the last 3 years have been off the books where people are working directly for cash for short time, a few hours, gigs. Some economist say that 1/2 of all jobs will be these non-jobs within 10 years. Young people like the freedom it affords, businesses love them because there is no documentation, the new undocumented workers who just happen to be citizens. The internet has created millions of "jobs" that did not exist before, like full time eBay sellers/buyers in collectables or whatever. In the photo industry the pro photographers are grumbling about all the amateurs taking all their profitable wedding work. It is true, hundreds of thousands of amateurs with no business or job are doing hundreds of thousands of sessions which used to go to commercial studios. Tens of thousands of programmers are working off the books on the many free lancer web sites. They are part of the slacker world the right wing knows nothing about yet have the training and creativity none them have. The music field is famous for most of those earning income being unemployed in the normal sense of the word. Even home repair shops for MI gear has replaced the shop in the local music store many communities. . There are plenty of people employed just not anywhere near as many at the total of employed + casual gig workers.
Those charts reveal a clear lack of understanding of the current society, by the same level Bill completely misses the issues he complains about, like the US being weaker because of Obama. Clearly in need of getting off Fox and seeing some of the world for what it is.
Very plainly quality of life has dropped in the US while it has greatly improved in the majority of the world, young people are making the best of it by bypassing the system completely. Many are moving to other countries for work and play, more than are immigrating to the US. But the far right still claims the world is straining to get into the US because of the freedoms and lavish welfare programs. More evidence that the far right wing is fully and irretrievably detached from reality. When the corporations and bankers have decimated the worker's lives, millions have dropped out of the system and have created their own direct economy.
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/16/2015 7:07 AM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Even "winning" means losing, because the price to pay is way too high.
Folks, lets have a thought about those poor bastids that are stuck in Veterans Hospitals, some missing all their limbs, missing faces, torn up something awful and still alive. They have to be taken care of for decades, what an expense for doctors nurses & assistants. It's bad enough when our troops come home in coffins, this is way worse. Many seldom if ever receive visitors, need help to do anything, some have no hearing, no vision, can't much be entertained or participate in any activity of normal life. Aside from their caretakers, almost totally forgotten. There's your price of war. I got reminded because one of my customers is a guard at the local VA. One of his duties is to prevent people from taking photographs: strictly verboten. Our gum'mint does not want the general public to be reminded of this real cost of war, and that's been the policy throughout all administrations. So. . . . what potential US president will reveal this truth to the people. Or will those human wrecks only be remembered by their family and friends, or nobody but their orderlies and nurses.

- - - - - - - - -

Next, drones. Hey what could be better than popping away at your enemies from a remote control plane loaded with accurately aimed missiles. USA scored some very good hits, top AQ guys and others. Woops sometimes those "others" were just people driving from mosque for a wedding to the party. You think they'd learn by now to not travel in a group, that looks way too much like a troop movement. Sorry, we wiped out your whole family except for a couple of badly maimed kids. Shucks folks, that's the price of war, necessary on the road to victory! Now the "bad guys" have picked up on drones, stay tuned for further revoltin' developments. Besides spy capability they can pop away at us whenever and wherever they want. Even without weapons on board, fly them into the intakes of passenger jets on takeoff. Drones spotted by airline & military pilots, too many thousands of incidents to list. Harmless but worrying so far, that won't be the case for long. How do you do anything about that? You can have a drone guerilla war inside US borders, what happens when a terr'ist team decides to make the move on one day, all attacks within an hour or 2 as on 9/11? Low-tech drones cheap and expendable compared to people, even terr'ists, and they know that. What presidential candidate has the plan that's going to put a stop to prevent it? Who's going to be the hero that steps up and fixes this one? If a postman in an ultralight can land next to the Capitol steps what's to stop a terr'ist with drones from attacking anything whether government center, military base, oil refinery, or you in your house. Even if you can spot 'em, what can they do, shoot 'em down with an F-18? Something to look forward to, don't worry 'til it happens. If they didn't think they had a good reason to attack us, they wouldn't. Too late for that. Whistle while you work....
 
Bill Moore 9/16/2015 10:32 AM
leo, you would be surprised at the attitude of those "poor bastards" missing body parts. I talk to a few at our local clinic when I go in for checkups, most are really upbeat! I got up a few weeks ago to open the door for a young guy in a wheelchair, and he said "just sit down, old man, they put a red button by the door just for me, so I better use it".
 
km6xz 9/16/2015 2:25 PM
Juan, the slave labor many talk about in other countries is usually being talked about by people who have never been out of the country. China has an explosion in the middle class similar to the heyday of the US when progressive policies and government assistance created the middle class from WWII until the reagan corporate shift from people to capital as to who got assisted.
Clueless people assume all those TV, car, airplane and computers are being assembled by slaves in China. Funny, they actually believe that, but why not, they still believe in torture and trickle down economics.
All the computers and cell phones are made in China without much manual labor at all, but with billions in the latest automation run and maintained by highly trained members of the middle class. US companies decided to lower wages to increase profits instead of increase efficiency by investing in precision automation. So US companies willingly gave up manufacturing to turn to being salesmen. It used to be common for equipment to be designed in the US an contracted out for manufacturing in Asia but now, with more engineers than the US, now much of the equipment is being developed in China and only sold to the US companies.
Decades ago China's leadership decided they wanted to enter the world stage with some capability that would dominate the field. That turned out to be assembly of electronics as whole units or simple pc boards. They knew it would take a lot of money to automate to be really efficient so grants and loans were made available that allow small companies beat out the pricing for oem pc boards. It took only a couple years to take over consumer and computer electronics. With no let up in funds available to keep 1-2 steps ahead of everyone else meant that no company would even bother competing. In the late 70s and early 80s computers and printers were actually made in the US and by 1990, only a few assembly plants where still putting products together from PC boards made in China. That is how quickly they took over the biggest growth industry in the US and Europe. Japan felt it just as badly because their economy was bases on consumer electronics. Japan had the auto market however. Later the decision was made to dominate car and bus manufacturing. Still later they decided to talk over civil aviation. They are far long that path. They produce the most buses of any country and produce over 15,000,000 cars a year, most of which are sold in China. Slaves don't take over so methodically. The biggest increase in foreign tourism is by Chinese middle class, they have money and generous vacation time.
 
tedmich 9/16/2015 3:40 PM
True they are not slaves, but any company, no matter how "high tech", would be foolish to not move to the country with the lowest possible wages. This is usually predicated on them also finding suitably skilled labor in that country but the march towards mechanization means the role of labor is ever decreasing, and will eventually become almost completely irrelevant. The Catch 22 in this ill thought out equation is where to sell the consumer goods when no potential consumer has income sufficient to buy it, but we'll all be singularities traded by super computers at light speed by then...
 
km6xz 9/16/2015 9:04 PM
Wages in the factories that make the consumer and industrial products are not so low, that is why many functions are being subcontracted to Vietnam, Thailand and Malaysia. Not all Chinese products are lowend, in fact almost all pc board based gear is made there from top to bottom of the economic food chain. They excel in production efficiency and production engineering, and graduate more engineers per year than the US has it its entire workforce, and about 50 times as many in any given year. The notion of illiterate slaves working in sweat shops seems consistent with the images Americans have of all countries they don't know about....strongly held opinions based on zero evidence. If more than 18% had passports and actually used them, the images and opinions held would eventually fade but that will not likely happen at this rate. I have an incoming tour operation here and mostly providing comprehensive 2-3 day shore excursions for cruise ship passengers. Most cruises in the Baltic Sea are 10-14 days and cost $4-6,000 for a couple plus air of another $2000-6000 for, plus $3-5000 in shipboard account charges. In the past cruising was mostly done by citizens of countries that were part of the British Empire at one time. US citizens traveling internationally, mostly do it on cruise ship, 68% in previous yours of all visits to foreign countries was on 4-12 port calls on ships where the visitor never got to meet a local or learn anything about those countries. St Petersburg, as the jewel of the Baltic, is an exception where they spend 2-3 days in port. In the last 10 years 80% of those arriving here were Americans. Cruise lines started advertising in Asia for the first time this last spring, where Chinese nationals really were not traditional cruisers, bookings by Chinese overtook Americans who accounted for 32% this year, and China nationals represented 43%. UK, Canada, Australia usually make up the rest but this year, Indians, South Americans, Taiwanese and Egyptians came in large numbers. Most of our tours are in English, are highly educational and focused on history and culture yet only a couple requested non-English speaking guides. Travel, a mostly middle class activity has shifted all over, which Chinese visiting Italy this summer outnumbered Americans for the first time. While Americans are staying home and becoming more isolated Asians, Eastern Europeans, Central Asians and Middle Eastern have become the most common pleasure travelers in recent years. To spend $10,000 on a vacation, means something and with millions doing it every month it is easy to see a shift in engagement with the world, as the US citizens withdraw, these other regions are taking their places. I doubt I could cite a single friend here who has not traveled internationally for pleasure in the last 12 months. My own GF has been to 6 different countries since last a year ago last July. I see this radical difference in engagement and world knowledge between all these regions with exploding middle classes versus Americans who are becoming more isolated and cut off from world knowledge as the reason there fear, pessimism and myth permeates the American conversation yet these other regions are becoming much more comfortable with international relationships in business, personal friendships, cooperation and peace. The misinformed opinions about the rest of the world, and how much of the world has improved living conditions, quality of life, and opportunities is just further isolating the US.

Getting back to the issue of why things are not made in the US. One reason is that the support network needed to manufacture things is better in other regions of the world. For example the parts are made in China and Asia, transportation is well situated with low cost rail and sea shipping, a large educated pool of potential employees, job shops and prototyping shops abound, mold builders, pc board makers, where a design can turn into a working prototype with finished cosmetics in a flash. I designed some small UHF receivers and transmitters, like guitar wireless backs as guide audio systems 7 years ago and had them made in China. I had the first evaluation populated working boards back in 9 days and Class injection molds in for the cases in 12 day. The first run of 100 were delivered in 36 days and 6 months later I had 3,000 built. Every one of them worked, the quality of the thick G10 glass boards was excellent and they have been used on thousands of tours by tens of thousands of visitor. They cost me $27 each. I rent then to other tour operators for $2 a day in a carrying case of 20 plus 1 transmitter for a gross of $40/day. The equivalent when I designed these were $86 each. Each tour is 2-3 days so during the summer they pay for themselves a dozen times over each season from mid May to late September. To design and manufacture a small quantity like 3,000 in the US would take months and months and getting parts, mechanical components made from all over the country ad would cost hundreds of dollars each. A small company wanting to produce a new product HAS to go elsewhere since there is no developed small run support network in the US. I went through an engineering services broker in China, she did everything. arranged for the mold makers, the pc boards, assembly, boxes, hardware, components ordering and done with expertise and professionalism. She knew every phase of turning a working prototype into a finished marketable product for a modest fee. THAT is why I ended up going through China, it was so easy and professional at a price that made the whole project feasible with the limited budget I had. Yes, you all think it was because of slave labor. No, because it is a society geared to manufacturing things on all scales of complexity and volume. I have done manufacturing in the US, years ago and it is not easy, it is in fact barely worth the effort and a long painful process. The mold costs alone for one project was $50,000 20 years ago. A more complex mold was created in 1/10 the time, for $1800 in China and required no additional input from me.
Ever order pc boards made in China? Within 24 hours the boards are done and on the way back. Quality boards. I did some 4 layer boards, very small run, 12 pieces and had them back in 7 days, 6,000 miles away at a cost that even a hobbyists could smile at. If you wanted them populated and vapor phase soldered on two sides of SMD, no problem, fast and low cost. Try doing that in the US. Need a chassis punched and formed, no problem, how many do you need by next week? The whole industry support network is there in the same town, in a thousand towns and cities. Modern facilities with the latest in tooling accessible to any size designer is what makes other regions not competitive.
 
J M Fahey 9/16/2015 11:50 PM
I was IMPRESSED by:
I designed some small UHF receivers and transmitters, like guitar wireless backs as guide audio systems 7 years ago and had them made in China. I had the first evaluation populated working boards back in 9 days and Class injection molds in for the cases in 12 day. The first run of 100 were delivered in 36 days and 6 months later I had 3,000 built. Every one of them worked, the quality of the thick G10 glass boards was excellent and they have been used on thousands of tours by tens of thousands of visitor. They cost me $27 each.
That said, you seem to have invested some U$ 90k in the project.
Not exactly pocket money

Would *love* to see a couple pictures, specially some inside ones.
Please please please please please
 
km6xz 9/17/2015 4:19 AM
Hi Juan, here are photos I just took with my phone of the outside and the board. The label on the front is DenRus, the my tour company that we sold last year to a division of GazProm, the mega-gas company. After these I designed another one with more than the 3 channels these have but never made them, only 2 of the 3,000 failed, one an ic and the other the headphone jack. The coil at the bottom is a spring helical antenna. This is a receiver. The transmitter looks the same . There are two boards, a main board for the audio, power, discriminator/IF block and tone squelch. The sandwich daughter board sitting on the top of the main board, near the helical antenna is the master clock, the local osc frequency synthesizer and and RF amplifier and monolithic bandpass filter. The metal shield can is multiplier and filter chain for the local oscillator.
Nothing radical but very durable and trouble free. They all have been dropped or rained on a hundred times. I over designed it actually, for example the level of LO shielding was not really needed, and it has two 10.7Mhz 2 pole ceramic filters for IF that turned out not to be needed either, one would have had steep enough skirt selectivity. I also made them more powerful than needed. I wanted them to get through the 1 meter thick interior walls of the Hermitage so visitors wandering off from the guide could still be called back. But that means they have a range that is about 150 meters in the clear so when there are a lot of groups, with only 3 channels, they have to be spaced more than a few hundred meters apart to prevent interference. I could have gotten by with 30 meter range and not worry about them getting lost in the 1,005 room Hermitage Winter Palace. The boards are really tough, thick, rigid. I used a boost regulator for 5 volt internal operation from the 2 1.2volt rechargeable batteries used. The regulator and flyback inductor/rectifier is next to the battery springs.
I designed them to be double duty, with enough AF bandwidth for use as a stage RF link and have used them many times in video shoots as wireless audio(the transmitter supplies low phantom power through the mic jack) so the 3 db points are 30-18khz with low distortion. There is 2:1 compression on transmit and 1:2 expansion on receiver so S/N is quite good. With the 3 part rugged plastic case, $27/each Each summer there is a 70% rental rate(70% of them are generating income each day there are large cruise ships in port, so the gross income at $2 a day is around $600,000 minus costs of distributing them, charging batteries and about $0.50 each in disposable earphones). They paid for themselves the first month 6 years ago. Maintenance has been new batteries once each spring and the two that failed. I have a couple girls deoxidize the earphone jacks once each spring and clean them once a week, and pack them away in handy custom made carrying cases that hold 20-30 receivers, spare batteries, and earphones, plus transmitter with choice of boom mic or clip on mic.[ATTACH=CONFIG]35732[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]35735[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]35733[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]35736[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]35734[/ATTACH]
 
dmartn149 9/17/2015 11:20 PM
I'm coming to this thread late, and it has already morphed into something else, so excuse me for steering it back to "President Trump" I just saw this today and thought this was the perfect place to share it.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]35754[/ATTACH]
 
J M Fahey 9/18/2015 1:58 AM
Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
Hi Juan, here are photos I just took with my phone of the outside and the board. The label on the front is DenRus, the my tour company that we sold last year .... This is a receiver. The transmitter looks the same . ....
Nothing radical but very durable and trouble free. They all have been dropped or rained on a hundred times. I over designed it actually, .... I also made them more powerful than needed. I wanted them to get through the 1 meter thick interior walls of the Hermitage so visitors wandering off from the guide could still be called back. But that means they have a range that is about 150 meters in the clear so when there are a lot of groups, with only 3 channels, they have to be spaced more than a few hundred meters apart to prevent interference.
I designed them to be double duty, with enough AF bandwidth for use as a stage RF link and have used them many times in video shoots as wireless audio(the transmitter supplies low phantom power through the mic jack) so the 3 db points are 30-18khz with low distortion. There is 2:1 compression on transmit and 1:2 expansion on receiver so S/N is quite good. With the 3 part rugged plastic case, $27/each Each summer there is a 70% rental rate(70% of them are generating income each day there are large cruise ships in port, so the gross income at $2 a day is around $600,000 minus costs of distributing them, charging batteries and about $0.50 each in disposable earphones). They paid for themselves the first month 6 years ago. .....
IN-CRE-DI-BLE and .... thanks

Way more than I expected and on the other hand, exactly that.

Congratulations.

Both on the Tech side and the Biz one too
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/18/2015 6:29 AM
Quote Originally Posted by dmartn149 View Post
I'm coming to this thread late, and it has already morphed into something else, so excuse me for steering it back to "President Trump" I just saw this today and thought this was the perfect place to share it.
Terrific quote, right at the beginning of the Roaring Twenties when the Captains of Industry ran the place and profiteers were still counting their piles of cash from the Great War. Dig H.L.'s Alfalfa hairdo too!

Heard some commentary lately about The Donald's body language, fisted arms across the chest, pursed lips, of course the arrogant attitude, all straight out of Mussolini 1920's playbook. All he needs is to always appear wearing a silly hat - - - woops it appears he has one already. Yeh, he'll make the trains run on time.
 
km6xz 9/18/2015 7:35 AM
My first love in electronics, dating to the mid 1950s when I was a little nerd kid was RF, anything from receivers, antennas and transmitters. Now, using software aided design and CAD, it was possible to do a lot right from my laptop with SPICE, pcb design software with auto-routing, and most of the synth daughterboard circuit was taken right from Application notes. I had not designed anything from concept to finished boards in years and the aids, and advanced simple to interface chips made the task a lot easier than what I needed to do in the old days. The whole receiver was done before the daughter board for the synth was started since I could breadboard the rest of the receiver using my Motorola R-2008D service monitor to supply LO, modulated IF. The first fully populated board worked and very little tweaking was done to values. I figured the synth and RF amp should be on a daughter board so they could be populated with different daughter boards to accommodate different bands in different markets just by unplugging and swapping front end boards.
I was recruited to do a contract design of what was going to be the first digital FM tuner in the early '70s and built the prototype, then lobbied the company NOT to build it. They were a speaker company and were growing very fast in mod 1970 was selling more than JBL but seeing how much difficulty they had manufacturing a solid state power amp and a matching pre-amp, I thought they were not sophisticated enough to build something as complex as a cutting edge tuner. While the discussions were going on, Sherwood came out with the first digital tuner. The contract was for a small monthly draw and a large sum at the time the went on the retail market, and getting a modest license fee for each one sold. I did that on snowy nights up at my ranch when snowed in for weeks, and this guide wireless was done sort of the same way, during the winter of -25C and having a live in GF so didn't waste so much time hanging out in clubs:>)
So my background in RF was long but ended up in being in recording and some audio design on the side. Sometimes I wonder how I can get things done here, so far removed from a support network of suppliers and equipment and the extreme burden of spending most of my time socializing and chasing fun as #1 priority.
The wireless guide system worked so well and lowering the volume of guides trying to communicate in crowded museums that really crowded museums are now mandating it for any groups 7 or larger. Many copied the concept but I am sure none are more reliable. None sound as good. When doing video shoots, and the hidden wireless guide mics on the talent, it is amazing how good some of the field recordings work. At first I thought S/N would be a problem with wide DR and wide passband audio but even on a sound stage, the S/N, noise floor is usually the room and not the RF link. I have used them for guitar packs as well but disable the compression because the time constants are optimized for speech.
 
dmartn149 9/18/2015 11:04 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Terrific quote, right at the beginning of the Roaring Twenties when the Captains of Industry ran the place and profiteers were still counting their piles of cash from the Great War. Dig H.L.'s Alfalfa hairdo too!

Heard some commentary lately about The Donald's body language, fisted arms across the chest, pursed lips, of course the arrogant attitude, all straight out of Mussolini 1920's playbook. All he needs is to always appear wearing a silly hat - - - woops it appears he has one already. Yeh, he'll make the trains run on time.
Yeah, Trumps popularity actually frightens me a little. His pandering to the fear and prejudice of so many makes me think of Hitler. I worry that, if not Trump, then some other more charismatic demagogue might someday get a hold of the country and really screw the world up. I'm really quite shocked that Trump has so much support.
 
km6xz 9/18/2015 12:26 PM
Leo, you are not the only one who saw familiar gestures and body language in news reels so close to Trump that he could be impersonating Mussolini intentionally so be so close. Frighteningly so, but we can rest easier knowing he is too thickheaded to know who historical figures were. His fans surely don't seem to know history any more than they know the science they are so opposed to.
The US is at a tipping point, and a flip of a coin is about as good as any predictor for the direction. It could change direction and build a new more equitable, sustainable culture (Sanders ) or shift toward demagoguery and become far more polarized and dysfunctional than it is even now. The big investors seem to have already picked their direction. This year, since Janurary, direct investment in foreign development by private and institutional investors has dropped 30-90% from recent years in 90 of the most rapidly developing countries. The last time such a dramatic drop in foreign investment was immediately before the 2008 collapse. Before every meltdown, investors had already pulled out their money, dating by to the depressions of the late 19th century. The perfect storm of climate change reducing food production, bubble collapse of commodity and stock prices and massive layoffs produce a housing foreclosure explosion, all follow a pattern that can be seen here right now. Stock prices are way above any fundamentals and a correction has been expected. The only ones hurt from most corrections are the small investors, retirement accounts and smaller businesses. Traders make more on sudden drops than on orderly gains. One of the big problems if the small guys are wiped out, is they are often the owners of the shares used by traders for shorting and as it is, 3 times the total value of all the NYSE companies is in naked, uncovered shorts. Each share is traded against and with many times a day and never settled while the owner of record sits in their suburban retirement home thinking they are protecting their small savings by investing in secure companies. The next 12 months will determine what form of government and society the US will be. It is coin toss time.
 
Leo_Gnardo 9/18/2015 1:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
Leo, you are not the only one who saw familiar gestures and body language in news reels so close to Trump that he could be impersonating Mussolini intentionally so be so close. Frighteningly so, but we can rest easier knowing he is too thickheaded to know who historical figures were. His fans surely don't seem to know history any more than they know the science they are so opposed to.
I didn't much notice at first, having no TV, but once it was brought to my attention, , he's got the moves, doesn't he? Claims he hasn't the lobbyists or advisory staff the other candidates have. Any history he knows is the history of bazillionaires if he ever bothered to study at all, after all when Daddy is going to hand you the keys to the multimillion dollar company what do you need to know? How to bark at people? Add the black-shirt treatment his chief of security gave a protester a couple weeks ago - there will be more of it as his campaign continues.

I've been a market investor and understand the short system. Also the fact that short holders and their enablers love to make up any story they can to pummel the value of the companies they've shorted. Lies, fibs, fabrications, pure mendacity, plus trucks full of ripe bull manure, they stretch fiction beyond the breaking point. It's all part of the investing game. OTOH it is a joy to see a short squeeze in action, when stocks rise in value and the short boys take a beating, they have to run for the exits bleeding money like Ebola victims. Doesn't happen often enough.

Another great essay, thanks Stan!
 
Bill Moore 9/18/2015 5:38 PM
I don't know if Trump will get the nomination, but he has others talking about things that matter to the American people, by a large margin, ( illegal immigration, shady deals with Iran, etc.). Others maybe will have the balls, (even Carly), to speak to these problems.
As for dictator examples, we already have one, residing in the white house. He makes up his own rules, and the wimps in congress won't call him on it. He has done so many things that would get other presidents impeached, yet we can't call him out or we're racists.
I agree with Stan on his idea that we are about to lose it as a country, but if we change course, we might have a chance to salvage what's left!
 
J M Fahey 9/18/2015 6:02 PM
Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
Leo, you are not the only one who saw familiar gestures and body language in news reels so close to Trump that he could be impersonating Mussolini intentionally so be so close. Frighteningly so, but we can rest easier knowing he is too thickheaded to know who historical figures were. His fans surely don't seem to know history any more than they know the science they are so opposed to.

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
I didn't much notice at first, having no TV, but once it was brought to my attention, , he's got the moves, doesn't he? Claims he hasn't the lobbyists or advisory staff the other candidates have. Any history he knows is the history of bazillionaires if he ever bothered to study at all, after all when Daddy is going to hand you the keys to the multimillion dollar company what do you need to know? How to bark at people?
FWIW *Hitler* was :

1) backed by German BIG MONEY , in particular Fritz Thyssen , King of German Steel and Iron, 200000 employees.
Who even wrote the book:
[IMG]http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1382226029l/141393.jpg[/IMG]

2) was coached by Paul Devrient, an experienced Opera singer, about maximum impact on stage (he also wrote hius own little book: "Hitler my pupil"):
[IMG]http://img.zvab.com/member/d04904/30707249.jpg[/IMG]

3) he practiced before a mirror, under stage lighting :
[IMG]http://rostromagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/descarga-1.jpg[/IMG]

Do you doubt for even a minute that Trump is backed by $$$ and has "image creators" working for him?

Any similarity is not a coincidence.

Mind you, I'm not saying that Trump follow Hitler, even less his ideas, but that the same old as the Pyramids tricks are used by con men ..... sorry ...... "Politicians" ...... to lead people by the nose.
 
SpareRibs 10/17/2015 3:21 PM
 
SpareRibs 10/17/2015 3:34 PM
Hello,
Well at this point in time Trump is beating Little Booboo Bush. And the Republicans are searching their souls as to how they are going to support him after he wins the primary.
Also the non participation rate in the job market is due to Obamacare, because now people do not have to work up to the day they die to keep their selves or a spouse alive.
 
Enzo 10/17/2015 10:03 PM
So as long as they get subsidized health care, they don't need income for rent, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, etc?
 
Mark Hammer 10/18/2015 8:17 AM
Apparently, Donald Trump will be guest host on Saturday Night Live, next week.
 
loudthud 10/24/2015 3:48 PM
Scheduled for November 7 with musical guest Sia. Anyone think it won't be the highest rated SNL ever?
 
Enzo 10/24/2015 10:03 PM
Sure, everyone loves a circus. I suspect he will be a more interesting host than Sarah Palin was.
 
Mark Hammer 10/26/2015 6:52 AM
Given that the musical act is Sia, I imagine they will either try and get a platinum blonde wig on Trump to emulate her, or else place Trump-alike wigs on others, so they can make a hair joke.
 
nsubulysses 10/26/2015 11:49 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
Or they're attracted to shutting industry down in the name of owls and flowers and bushes...

Justin
Do you realize where all the re-sources come from? They come from the source. Without the source there is no life on the planet. Is temporary monetary extravagance (printed on trees of all things!) for a flash of a second in time worth throwing away billions of years of cyclical rejuvenation?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36237[/ATTACH]

If there are no owls and flowers and bushes, other living organisms that depend on the sustenance of the source will soon follow suit. And all the money in the world or fabulous creations of industry won't bring it back.
 
Bill Moore 10/28/2015 8:48 AM
I'm sure you must know that we have more trees now than we did when the country was founded! In my area, there were 7 sawmills working in the 1950's, now none! In the 1880's the stamp mill at Mogollon used 100 cords of wood a day, yet that same area is still covered with trees today, (until a fire, natural or man made comes through), then we start over, without getting the use of the wood.
http://foresthistory.org/Publication...an_Forests.pdf
 
tedmich 10/28/2015 10:28 AM
There's about half as many trees as when humans started mass deforestation. In the US there are more trees today than 1970, and in some areas more than we had about 100 years ago, but that's only because we we so amazingly efficient at cutting them down before that. Here in the NW we have many many trees, all about as big around as your arm, because they replant 10 for every big old tree cut. Sure there are a lot of trees but hugely less BIOMASS, so less O2 being made, CO2 being fixed and no more jobs for under educated guys to fell them, use them etc.

There's more animals today too, too bad they're all rats, pigeons and bedbugs...
 
Bill Moore 10/29/2015 9:06 AM
Over educated guys don't use wood?
 
big_teee 10/29/2015 9:50 AM
Select cutting is a good thing.
In forests, you cruise the timber and paint mark the trees to be cut.
Old trees grow slower, and probably don't cycle as much CO2, O2, as mid age trees.
Once trees get huge, and mature, the only thing left for them to do is die!
So IMO they should be cut before then.
Also with old trees they use all the nutrients under and near the tree, so cutting and starting over is a good thing.
Select cutting helps take care of bug spot areas.
Forest Companies don't want to select cut, they prefer to clear cut, because it is more cost affective for them, but IMO Select cutting is best.
My 2 cents, on cutting trees.
T
 
eschertron 10/29/2015 1:00 PM
A thought: can the rate of respiration CO2<->O2 be linked to the number of leaves the tree holds? Old trees don't look like they're growing as fast as saplings, but still they grow and respire.

One thing I've learned as a student of human nature is that we tend to base procedure (timbering, fishing, etc.) on facts that haven't been proven to be true. It's a good thing to be aware of how our activity impacts the existing ecosystem, and a good thing to continue to look for insight on how to manage our resources. Infighting will never work better than discussion and consensus.
 
Bill Moore 10/29/2015 1:16 PM
Once a tree dies, all the carbon it has stored will be released, either by burning, rotting, or being eaten by critters.
What we need to be aware of, is CO2 is not "carbon pollution" as is the greens new favorite saying, but plant food. All the things we eat depend on CO2 availlability to feed plants. We also need to remember that the Earth was warmer with less CO2 concentrations, and colder with more CO2 concentrations in it's history. This political "carbon pollution", "global warming", "climate change" idea does not hold up, when confronted with facts.
 
SpareRibs 10/29/2015 1:41 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
So as long as they get subsidized health care, they don't need income for rent, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, etc?
Hello,
The reason some people can now afford to leave the work force is because, they do not have to work past retirement age to keep a spouse alive. Like it or not the insurance company's can no longer keep some one alive just to drain the bank account. End result used to be that one person died and the other was left nearly or actually homeless.
The people in question may indeed already have money for rent, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, ect. However I am sure you in particular
are aware of medical costs and, how they can spin out of control rather quickly.
There is also the problem of college students wasting vast sums of money using student loans to get degrees that will never be of any use in a workforce. The area I live in has the most highly educated McDonald and WalMart workers I have ever seen.
 
Enzo 10/29/2015 5:04 PM
I am also keenly aware that despite the purest of intentions, many of us will not be ABLE to work until we croak. We are left with no way to supplement the retirement we have provided for ourselves.
 
The Dude 10/29/2015 5:33 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
I am also keenly aware that despite the purest of intentions, many of us will not be ABLE to work until we croak. We are left with no way to supplement the retirement we have provided for ourselves.
A concept either not understood at all or lost by those born into privilege.

I am always amazed at those who tout "The American Dream". They report that all you have to do is work hard and you can succeed in life. They tout that it's how they achieved their own success (usually failing to mention the government assistance that got them through college).

Here's where it gets hinky:
Much of the time, right after telling their own success story, they tell how their father worked 2 or 3 jobs and lived in a one room apartment without a pot to piss in to support the family. It's a bit contradictory if you think about it. Why, then, wasn't the father "successful"? According to the speaker's own formula (just work hard), Dad should have been rich beyond his wildest imagination.
 
nsubulysses 10/29/2015 7:06 PM
A friend who is a gym owner always tells me how the American-style idea of work hard and succeed is mostly false, and if you accept this and base your efforts on it you are essentially a simpleton and you may succeed, but most likely will not because you are already so disadvantaged in your limited mindset of what is necessary to be successful. One of his favorite phrases, "The real world is not a meritocracy." This is from a 31 year old white guy who went to a fancy school for molecular engineering and certainly did earn his merits.

I try not to be so harsh and brutal towards dismissing the idea of meritocracy but it seems like a fantasy, and something you mostly get taught growing up (like most other fantasies). Maybe an idea of yesteryear or something. It is so much more complex than that.
 
g1 10/29/2015 9:00 PM
Meritocracy is like the idea of "fairness", a completely human concept. There is no "fair" in nature.
 
Enzo 10/30/2015 12:47 AM
Look at our industry. There are talentless hacks who make it big. Anyone remember the Ashley Simpson melt down on SNL? And there are extremely talented performers who never get beyond weekend bar gigs.

You tell yourself, I'm OK, at least I can fix amps (or paint houses, or drive a bus, etc) until I am 80, and then one day you find yourself looking up at the screen of the heart monitor from your hospital bed, knowing you can no longer lift SVTs (or climb ladders, or get a chauffeur's license).
 
tedmich 11/13/2015 10:48 AM
Trump went a little nutty last night in Iowa

https://youtu.be/apaToLjdRp4

nutty stuff begins at 5:50

he's "on the ethanol" for sure!
 
Mark Hammer 11/13/2015 1:21 PM
Halo effect, halo effect, halo effect.

When we perceive an attractive feature about another human being, we tend to over-evaluate other characteristics. If they are physically attractive, they must be smart. If they're famous or celebrities, they must be not only smart but also much better-looking.

There are very few, if any, wealthy individuals whose wealth was NOT largely a product of happening to be in the right place at the right time. Certainly chance favours the prepared mind, as they say, but prepared minds still end up with bupkes if chance doesn't work in their favour. This is why many of the wealthiest folks - Trump included - made their fortunes in real estate or some other fluke. I'm pretty sure that Bill Gates and Paul Allen are not that much smarter, or worked any harder, than the guy who has run a successful convenience store near you for 20 years.

Thirty years back, I worshipped I the same congregation, and often beside, the guys behind West Edmonton Mall, Mall of America, and a few other supermalls. Decent guys. Pretty humble. Reasonably generous and modest. How did they get rich? They came with their father from northern Iran. Family lands in Edmonton. Dad was prohibited from owning land back in the old country, so when he gets a chance, he buys a hunk of (then) rural land on the outskirts of Edmonton, just to own some land, and certainly not for speculating. And boom-lacka-boom, Alberta finds oil, the city mushrooms, and all of a sudden this little chunk of useless empty land in the country is surrounded by a medium-densely populated suburb, and it can be zoned for commercial use! The sons parlay it into a mall, and the rest is history.

The growing inequity between "the 1%" and everyone else is also a product of the reality that one makes money these days by already having it. If you're Warren Buffet or George Soros, you can drive stock prices in your favour, in a way that you can't do if you have $1482.37 in backpay and figure you'll invest it rather than stick it in a savings account. I'm sure that the 1% work hard, but the same amount of sweat does not yield nearly as much as if you have money to work with.

So, because pure hard work does not generate as much wealth as wealth itself does, the divide between the 1% and everyone else gets bigger. The adulation Trump's supporters heap on him assumes that he possesses "more" of something. I guess he does: it's called money.
 
g1 11/13/2015 5:59 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
If they are physically attractive, they must be smart.
Holden Caulfield Syndrome
 
Leo_Gnardo 11/13/2015 7:05 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Trump went a little nutty last night in Iowa <snip> he's "on the ethanol" for sure!
What, did somebody slip him some of that Iowa "moonshine" aka EverClear?

"You're STUPID! Vote for ME!"

Yeh, that works, every time.

My Holden Caulfield observation: what a phony.

Whatever loosened his tongue, he showed us what he's really made of: phony baloney.

But we already knew that. Where's the stage manager, with the stick with the hook on the end?

NEXT!

Carly the company wrecker Fiorina.

Hook.

NEXT!

Doc "Pyramids of Grain" Carson.

Hook.

NEXT!

Ted "Gold Standard" Cruz

Hook.

NEXT!

etc etc, 'til the stage is empty.

What a show, what dam' poor excuse for a show.

Let 'em all run off the cliff. They're dumb enough to do it.
 
tedmich 12/8/2015 3:21 PM
This article spoke to me: [url=http://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-muslim-comments-destroy-gop]I Want Donald Trump to Destroy the GOP | GQ[/url] (And might to Leo as well)
 
tedmich 12/8/2015 3:23 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post

Let 'em all run off the cliff. They're dumb enough to do it.
This article spoke to me:
I Want Donald Trump to Destroy the GOP | GQ

(And might to Leo as well)
 
The Dude 12/8/2015 3:42 PM
Dig it...... I've been saying that for a while, albeit not nearly as eloquently. The part of the article I have to disagree with and keep hearing from most of the pundits is, "Donald Trump isn’t stupid.". I have to wholeheartedly disagree...... also include arrogant, narcissistic, out of touch, moronic, annoying, orange, etc., etc. His latest inflammatory comments warrant that he should be put on a plane and dropped in the middle of Raqqa, Syria.
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/8/2015 5:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
This article spoke to me:
I Want Donald Trump to Destroy the GOP | GQ

(And might to Leo as well)
Interesting that Donnie's proposed ban would include any US citizen Moslems that are presently out-of-country.

Not that I read GQ much, after all I AM too sexy for my shirt, and everything else.

Next GQ article is also of interest, the Donald and his special friends:

Donald Trump and His Muslim Friends | GQ

Wake me up when attention whore Chump shoots his pistol thru the ceiling of the Hofbräuhaus, or Fox's newsroom.

I've started a drinking game, where you have to take a shot every time Trump is mentioned. Nobody's liver could stand the test...

Just so yez all know I'm not totally anti Trump, I think he'd make a fine Vice President.

Quote Originally Posted by the Dude
include arrogant, narcissistic, out of touch, moronic, annoying, orange, etc.
Thanks for reminding: "The nattering nabob of narcissism."
 
The Dude 12/8/2015 5:12 PM
I think he'd make fine trade bait. 6 ISIS captured US prisoners for one rich orange prick, anyone?
 
John_H 12/8/2015 5:19 PM
I've never considered him a serious candidate, but I admire the way his platform agenda has shaped this election cycle. He's had a tough battle with the media since he announced his candidacy, but he's got both parties running scared, and they deserve it. Does anyone here think he would be where he is if he weren't speaking to someone? Put aside his outrageous remarks, racism, islamophobia, misogyny, and narcissism, and you'll find that some of his policies seem purely patriotic. Stronger borders, stronger military, National security etc. You can attribute some of his popularity to charisma, but against all odds it's his core agenda that's resonating with people. Even if he were to withdraw tomorrow, He has played a big part in this contest.
 
The Dude 12/8/2015 5:57 PM
I wouldn't call him patriotic. Rather, I would call him a threat to national security. Let's just put his islamophobia and racism aside for a second.

Let's say you're on the fence about becoming a radicalized terrorist. You then hear a presidential frontrunner (by the US's own polls) espousing that the US should be a "Muslim free zone" and even Muslims that are American citizens should not be allowed back into the country. You just "jumped the fence". How many terrorists do you think this asshole created in the past week? He'll be the exhibit 'A'/poster child on new ISIS recruiting video by the weekend. And, they say "Donald Trump isn't stupid."? This might be the dumbest shit a person could do or say. You don't poke the bear.
 
John_H 12/8/2015 6:40 PM
Perhaps you got the wrong message from my post. I was talking about his numbers in the polls, and possibly why they are what they are regardless of all things considered. 'Like it or not, his type of politics only demonstrates how fucked up the whole system is nowadays. On the other side, You know the party with the donkey mascot, their front runner is neither trusted, nor liked very well. This was proven in '08, and I don't think she's gained many fans in the new crop of voters. I'm waiting for the first couple of primary elections to see how this mess sorts itself out. Regardless of what happens, I'm sure it'll be a wild ride.
 
The Dude 12/8/2015 6:44 PM
Oh John,

Please don't take my post wrong. I was just making a side point. I get your point and wasn't trying to start anything. All is good on my end.
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/8/2015 7:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by John_H View Post
you'll find that some of his policies seem purely patriotic. Stronger borders, stronger military, National security etc. You can attribute some of his popularity to charisma, but against all odds it's his core agenda that's resonating with people. Even if he were to withdraw tomorrow, He has played a big part in this contest.
"Cosi fan tutte" iow "they're all like that." In past campaigns McCain & all the rest talked a good line about security, even Obama. Heck the 'bammer even promised to shut down Guantanamo. LG's theory, no, truth of Presidency: "you don't find out until you've taken the oath of office, how little power you really have." 7 years later, Guantanamo still going. You need the support of the perfumed princes of the pentagon, plus Congress & many others to really get anything done.

From wiki, Charisma = (1) compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others, (2) a divinely conferred power or talent. Mmmm, a word much misused. Neither 1 nor 2 seen in Trump. Charm, you gotta be kidding. Divinely conferred, ditto. Another definition, from The Curmudgeon's Dictionary: "living in a state of unearned grace." Yeh, that's more like it.

How's about some campaign music for our karizmatik kooky kandidate, give him LOTS of what he really wants, loop this in loud lo-fi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk
 
The Dude 12/8/2015 7:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
......loop this in loud lo-fi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk
No......I will not.
 
Enzo 12/8/2015 7:35 PM
Trump's not real smart, he's just a very effective hustler. Think Chumlee on Pawn Stars.

I think the whole resonates with the people thing is just a rationalization. Who draws more viewers, Meet the Press or World Wide Wrestling Federation? What draws more onlookers, a big car wreck or the local science quiz student competition? What activity draws more Americans than anything else? NASCAR. So when this pro wrestler of a train wreck hustles us on TV, we sit there open mouthed watching.

patriotic? Not the word I'd use. Jingoistic maybe, Xenophobic for sure. Patriotism involves supporting our constitution, not just doing whatever we want to "win". He wants to ban all Muslims from entering the USA, after all, they are all terrorists, right? SO when Christian terrorists blow up a Planned Parenthood clinic, should we ban all Christians at the border? WHy I hear that the last time that happened there were thousands of Christians cheering over in New Jersey.
 
The Dude 12/8/2015 8:29 PM
Now he wants to "close the internet". Oh yeah,......he's a smart one.

Donald Trump wants to ban the internet, will ask Bill Gates to ?close it up? | People | News | The Independent
 
Justin Thomas 12/9/2015 2:26 AM
I thought he'd have to talk to Al Gore about that? Besides, I guess if Bill Gates hits the Nuke-All-Windows button, many will rejoice? Hey, if the internet stopped working, think of how few people would be using all of that nasty electricity! So, I guess it's Chrump/Bore 2016...

Justin
 
Enzo 12/9/2015 2:46 AM
[pet peeve mode]
Hey, don't pick on Al Gore, he got a bum rap. They laugh at him for claiming to have invented the internet. But he never claimed that. What he did claim was creating the internet. He was the main sponsor of the legislation putting ARPANET into the mainstream. he had been a champion of high speed telecommunication for many years. So he didn't "invent" it, he just made it possible.
[/pet peeve mode]
 
Justin Thomas 12/9/2015 4:11 AM
I don't mind Al Gore... I just don't know how to use all the smiley-face thingies. Well, okay, I did think listening to the PMRC hearings was pretty funny! But nobody remembers that anymore...

Justin
 
km6xz 12/9/2015 5:12 AM
Since you posted this Juan, Trump has called for forcing Muslims to wear symbols that identify them as Muslim, and blocking all Muslims from entering the country, even US born European ancestry Muslims. Years ago I have girlfriend from New Zealand who converted to Muslim in the 80s. A beautiful stage actor and model who I met in the US where she visiting to do a Pepsi commercial. She would be banned by Trump also despite the Pacific style of Muslim faith is very peaceful and contemporary in dress and customs. She had to tell people or else no one would know or care what faith she was. I am without any believe in supernatural beings but that was perfectly OK to be with an "infidel". More Malaysians are Muslim then in the Middle East but they are nothing like the fundamentalists of the Middle East.
Just like in christianity, few people in the world are as radical and fundamentalist as some sects in the US, the Middle East and the US have more in common in their version of religions than most would admit to. For those who deny that the current conflict between the US and 7-8 countries in the Middle East we have attacked, is not a new Crusade, evidently never read history. No real difference between the old and new versions.
 
km6xz 12/9/2015 6:42 AM
Like it or not, a LARGE portion of the US population, many of whom are voters, are very much in favor of all his utterings. He tapped into a large unspoken rage and victimization subculture of angry poorly educated, ignorant people that other politicians catered to but less overtly. It is safe for him to say that the US needs to be stronger and more assertive.....because his audience really believes that there were empires more aggressive and more widely expanded than the US but they are very ignorant. No other empire has sought to control more of the world and as the US has and is doing now. Name an empire which had 800 military outposts each manned with more destructive power than used in WWII, in the majority of countries of the world. Or an empire that attacked so many countries that had no direct conflict with them. The 7 countries Obama bombed and the estimated 4,000,000 people killed since the war on terror started did nothing to the US. The hundred or more "regime changes", destruction of sovereign country governments and social order in my life time. Complete surveillance of every conversation or written text in the world has not been seen in history either. The only security problem the US has is the powerful within the country subverting its resources and wealth for personal gain. No country is safe from regime change by whim of the US and yet the neocons think we are NOT aggressive enough?? There is a growing number of people and their governments who have been "friends" but are growing very wary of the growing dominance by the US of friends and foes alike. The US is beginning to be spoken about as an out of control empire that is evil. Talk in Europe of how their leaders have laid back and done nothing but accept domination of policy dictated by the US is coming to a head due to terror coming to them for the sole reason of being tired to US policy. But their leaders know they could be removed from office in minutes by the US as they have all seen dozens of times before. Syria is a good example, did nothing to the US and no one can explain why the CIA funded civil war has become the focus of US foreign policy or why the US is backing KSA and Turkey, the primary bad actors in the region and together with US weapons and money, KSA/Qatar money/ and Turkey money, training and oil deals created and supported Islamic State. The US is threatening war with China Russia and Iran because Russia was actually doing something about IS. The US wants IS to expand so it can remove the Syrian government but on each of these regime changes, no viable government remains so total chaos and suffering replaces the crushed government that someone in the US wants gone. Syria has gotten effective surface to air defenses recently as last week and has pleaded with the UN to stop the invasion by NATO and US which IS illegal. Turkey, under cover by the US has invaded Iraq and Syria. At not time in 100 years has there been greater threat of a world wide war than right at this minute, all due to US aggressiveness in pushing incredibly ill-advised illegal policies, yet all the talk in the US is about very minor side issues. Does not anyone in the US follow what their government is doing that will far more impact negatively their family than anything Trump or other non-issues. Why is everyone asleep again as the world is burning down, almost all directly related to US aggressive policy. The main factor is that there are 6 right wing war industry related corporations who control media and thus public awareness and opinion. They have forgotten all the wars we are conducting, undermining countries. How many know the US installed coup government in Ukraine is still shelling civilians in East Ukraine, and promises this week by Biden promised more troops on the ground and new billions in funding for the military while the new fascist government has bankrupted the country, shut down civil rights, killed 40,000 citizens. The economy has been stolen and dropped by 80%, and defaulted on sovereign debt that IMF rules requires to be current to qualify for loans, but last week the US ordered IMF to loan money to Ukraine not have to pay the $3billion that was due to Russia. That has caused a stir in the international banking by realizing the IMF is so controlled by political more than economic policy. But that weakens the US in the long run, with more countries embracing China's new development bank which promises to be less political. The US threatened 18 countries that joined, before they did. The alliance with European countries has been tested and many are openingly questioning why they are in NATO including Germany because of continuous bad policy dictated by the US. We all know how bad Bush and Cheney were for the US economy and security and standing in the world, but they only invaded 4 countries and Obama, who is advised by neocon's has attacked 8. And none of those did anything to the use or its neighbors. If the people really wanted a national defense, it would close 800 bases overseas and create the missing defense systems and stop focusing on offensive weapons. The US really is not protected, most of the military equipment and deployment is offensive in nature. It would take weeks or months to bring some of that gear home in case of an actual threat to the country. Neither the east or west coasts are as well protected as they were in the 40s and 50s but very little now because it is all deployed for political purposes in controlling other countries far from the US. That foreign occupation has not only generated suspicion of the US but it also bankrupts the country. Vets can't get services, roads can't be repaired, and food inspectors can't be hired because the military and security consumes $1.5 Trillion a year. $850 Billion of that in public facing facilities and weapons and the rest secret and coming from budgets that have no oversight or even values placed on them. The budgets are so secret Congress does is not told. That is why Americans are seeing the drop in quality of life that causes the political division. The money goes to controlling other countries and very little goes to make life and competitiveness better for Americans. Yet ALL the candidates promise more spending on more foreign wars, except Sanders but he has not been shy about giving money to the military complex either.
All the issues in the current campaign are side shows to divert people's attention the real issues of expanding empire and the threat that creates for all living creatures, and trumps personalities,women's rights, civil rights, highway bills and jobs bills, all of that does not mean shit if there is a world war, and the US will be the cause of it.
 
Bill Moore 12/9/2015 8:57 AM
I don't think it's unreasonable to limit immigration to the US, it's certaintly been done in the past. Even the lefty Carter shut down any immigration from Iran, and expelled those who were here! FDR did his best to limit Jewish immigration, even after the Nazi death camps were discovered. In the 50's there was Operation Wetback, that sent over a million Mexicans back home. Obama himself has put limits on immigration! What's the big deal?
I think we should limit ALL immigration until we can sort out who is coming, and if they will be an asset to our country, or a burden. In the 20's there was an immigration quota set to each country, and that law was in place until 1965!
 
Mark Hammer 12/9/2015 11:17 AM
Limiting the volume of immigrants and refugees (two different things) is fine, if a little short-sighted, and maybe even cruel sometimes. Screening immigrants and refugees more stringently, makes sense too, if done fairly and validly. EVERY nationality, religion, ethnicity, culture is capable of having undesirables that will pose a problem to another place, so admitting people without scrutiny makes little sense. Limiting on the basis of religion alone, though, is pure and outright bigotry of the sort that is legally prohibited.

Now, if Trump were to offer to pay for the disassembly of the Statue of Liberty, shipping it back to France, and the refurbishing of the island, fine. But you can't have that place as a national symbol and a completely contradictory national policy at the same time. I think folks need to make up their mind which country they live in: the one depicted on the Lady, or that "other" one.

As the pre-race stumbles along, Trump increasingly comes across as one of those folks they feature at the start of every season of American Idol, who thinks they are God's gift to music, has friends who told them "Hey, you should go on A.I.", and lives in a Dunning-Kruger delusional world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect ). And when you're rich, you can buy an awful lot of sycophants.
 
Bill Moore 12/9/2015 2:00 PM
You need to remember that the island was used for vetting those who were coming to this country. They were checked to determine not only good health, but ability to fit in with the rest of us. One of my wife's grandpaws stayed there on his way from Germany. (He had a music degree that allowed him to find work as a janitor in a new Mexico university!)
I don't know if any of you saw the black guy protesting the feds bringing busloads of central americans into California a few years ago. He said "It's fine to help someone, but when more kids show up outside your door, and you can't feed the ones you have already, you have to turn them away"!
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/9/2015 2:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
I don't know if any of you saw the black guy protesting the feds bringing busloads of central americans into California a few years ago. He said "It's fine to help someone, but when more kids show up outside your door, and you can't feed the ones you have already, you have to turn them away"!
That guy had more sense than Prez George W Bush, November 2005: "We need to let these people into the country to do the jobs Americans won't do."
 
tedmich 12/9/2015 2:37 PM
Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
All the issues in the current campaign are side shows to divert people's attention the real issues of expanding empire and the threat that creates for all living creatures, and trumps personalities,women's rights, civil rights, highway bills and jobs bills, all of that does not mean shit if there is a world war, and the US will be the cause of it.
I'd argue that the empire of which you speak is simply worldwide capital, most overtly manifested as corporate entities. To view governments as anything but ethnically aligned agents of global capital is a bit antiquated. Wherever capital can go (US, China, Russia etc) it rules, necessarily. The human inhabitants of the earth are largely outside the actual capital system, increasingly so by design. Governments are just the aging epaulets, uniforms and sabres of power that people are used to acknowledging, a paper tiger we find familiar although the old tiger is long extinct (if it ever even existed in our idealized form). The "matrix" is capital and its more abstract and obscure than anything the Wachowski Bros could ever envision. We could fight machines /AI/extra terrestrial aliens etc but we're fixed in the capital matrix, largely unable to fathom its existence, much less affect it.
 
Enzo 12/9/2015 6:15 PM
Bill, the immigrants stopped at Ellis Island, not over on Liberty island.
 
loudthud 12/10/2015 3:50 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
What, Tr(i)ump(h) the insult candidate? I'm quite sure everyone else in the world sees him for the self-entitled over privileged ass-clown that he is.
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
What I find amusing is this. Only a few years ago, most of my republican friends were nauseated by the prospect of Trump running for office. Any serious campaign by him would have been considered a joke. They, at that time and as I still do, considered him to be the arrogant ass clown he is. Now that he is the RNC front runner, these same people are propping him up and singing his praises as if he's had a recent brain transplant.
This just in: THEY'RE ALL ASS CLOWNS! What makes Trump different is that he doesn't ride in the same car with the rest of them. Trump doesn't need the money from the donor class so he doesn't have to answer to them or do them favors. He'll do what's best for America, not what benefits the rich that are in the pockets of every other politician. On SNL Hillary said she doesn't support the Keystone pipeline because of environmental concerns. Like just about everything she says, that's a big lie. Without the pipeline, all the oil moves on Burlington-Northern Railroad owned by Warren Buffet. Although Warren leans to the left, he really doesn't care who wins, he donates to both sides. The one person he can't control is Trump. It's the same with the RNC. They think if they can't derail Trump, all their funding will dry up and they won't be able to buy elections. And the donor class is waiting for the election to get a little closer before they start doing everything they can to stop Donald.

But TeflonDon regularly goes off the rails without assistance and by the next week, his numbers will be higher. The media tries to pile on and they just slide off. His anti-immigrant message resonates with a large percentage of working class voters who have seen the impact of cheap labor on their jobs and life style. And Trump's message resonates with non-voters, people that usually sit out elections. That's the group that will swing the election to Trump's side. The business elites will pour money on the other side but it won't matter. Terrorism and Immigration are the number one issues on peoples minds. Trump is unstoppable!
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/10/2015 7:59 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Terrorism and Immigration are the number one issues on peoples minds. Trump is unstoppable!
Yeh, I s'pose it's inevitable. Once ter'ism & immygration are settled down in the first five seconds of the Trump presidency, he's going to have to populate the cabinet. Let's help Don out!

Trump told us he's gonna eliminate that Obamacare crap, certainly in the next five seconds of his administration. And he's gonna replace it with "Something Fantastic!" That's what he said! To assist the Donald in this task I'd nominate for Secretary of Department of Health and Human Services, a genius and wildly successful businessman who I'm sure will get along perfectly with the Prez, Martin Shkreli. Currently Marty is the chief honcho at Turing Pharmaceuticals where he raised the price of a pill that sold for a buck, just $1.00 only a couple years ago, to $750. That's US$750.00, PER PILL. Then last week young Martin made another news splash when he said he made a mistake doing that. Yes he did, he surely did! He should have raised the price to $1,000. Well it IS good when a businessman admits an error, so Marty gets points for honesty. No more mistakes though, or he'll hear the magic words "YOU'RE FIRED!"

What's Marty done with all that loot he's making? Oh, bought the latest Wu Tang Clan album for two million dollars. Not something we could all download, oh no, there's only one copy, he's got it and not sharing it. Come to think of it, keeping that music out of circulation may be considered a valuable public service. So - Marty for HHS! He knows what's good for you!

More suggestions please, who should be DT's VP? Secretary of State? Defense? Treasury? Who should run the CIA? FBI? NSA? Who will be the White House Barber? I got an idea who may be offered Surgeon General. It's always a nice thing to do, to offer a major position to one of the other contenders in the campaign. See how well that worked for "Reset Button" Hillary?
 
Bill Moore 12/11/2015 8:49 AM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36846[/ATTACH]
Another suggestion!
 
Mark Hammer 12/11/2015 8:52 AM
I recommend Fareed Zakaria's last two articles in the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/fareed-zakaria
 
Bill Moore 12/11/2015 11:12 AM
I consider Fareed to be as much a muslim, as my "Jack" Morman friends, with concern for their religious dogma. Unless you believe, and strictly follow the groups teachings, you should not be considered a model of the faith.
 
g1 12/11/2015 11:24 AM
If people took that view we wouldn't have the discrimination problem we have. Muslim is seen by many as a skin colour (or mid-east geographical origin).
 
tedmich 12/11/2015 2:14 PM
[IMG]https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/trump-eagle-03a.gif[/IMG]

toughguy
 
Enzo 12/11/2015 2:39 PM
Muslim is seen by many as a skin colour (or mid-east geographical origin).
Back when the World Trade Center went down, there was a backlash around the country. Somewhere, some local putz blew away an Indian fellow who ran a local convenience store. When they arrested the killer, he mentioned 9/11 as his reason. They pointed out to him that the shop keeper was Indian, not Arab, and he said, "Close enough". That is the sort of moron we have here.
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/11/2015 3:21 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Back when the World Trade Center went down, there was a backlash around the country. Somewhere, some local putz blew away an Indian fellow who ran a local convenience store. When they arrested the killer, he mentioned 9/11 as his reason. They pointed out to him that the shop keeper was Indian, not Arab, and he said, "Close enough". That is the sort of moron we have here.
Similar, we had a Sikh family that ran the local gas station. Good folks, no trouble at all. Did honest business, polite & 100% on the ball. Always said thank you when you paid for your gas. After 9-11 they got so much crap from local nitwits, just pulled up stakes & moved out. Place has been closed ever since, another boarded up shop in a blighted neighborhood.

News flash: terrorists don't wear turbans. Now ya gotta look out for the nice normal family that makes pipe bombs together & stocks up thousands of ammo rounds.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36850[/ATTACH]

- - - - - - - - - - -

toughguy - almost got his wig knocked off!
 
Mark Hammer 12/12/2015 11:44 AM
Um, how exactly does that disqualify the points he makes?
 
g1 12/12/2015 12:19 PM
Mark, you are responding to post #108 ?
 
Mark Hammer 12/14/2015 6:44 AM
No, just wondering why Bill said what he said in response to the Zakaria pieces?

Which post is #108?
 
Justin Thomas 12/14/2015 8:19 AM
Post #108 is Bill's response to your articles...
And I probably look more "Muslim" than a lot of Muslims, what with my long scraggly hair, unshaven beard, propensity for flannel and beat up raggedy pants, combat boots, and pleasure in talking about fire and explosions... or I could just be a Metalhead Lumberjack American... darn, now I'm confused about my identity again!

Justin
 
big_teee 12/14/2015 8:27 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
Post #108 is Bill's response to your articles...
And I probably look more "Muslim" than a lot of Muslims, what with my long scraggly hair, unshaven beard, propensity for flannel and beat up raggedy pants, combat boots, and pleasure in talking about fire and explosions... or I could just be a Metalhead Lumberjack American... darn, now I'm confused about my identity again!

Justin
Get a Haircut and get a real Job!
T
 
Justin Thomas 12/14/2015 8:33 AM
That was a high-school anthem! But I dondon't have a big brother Bob!

Justin
 
Justin Thomas 12/14/2015 8:34 AM
That was a high-school anthem! But I dondon't have a big brother Bob! Justin
 
Bill Moore 12/14/2015 9:21 AM
Mark, since he is not a true believer in the tennents of the religion, he doesn't speak for it!
Islam teaches to fight all unbelievers until they are dead, converted to islam, or under islamic rule. and paying a tax for the privilege.
I could only hope that the muslims would have a "reformation", as happened in the Christian religion. With the majority of their book devoted to when, how, and why to torture and kill non believers, and swearing never to rest until sharia law is universal, I don't see how!
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/14/2015 9:24 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
or I could just be a Metalhead Lumberjack American... darn, now I'm confused about my identity again! Justin
You're a lumberjack and you're OK!

And only a lumberjack would stir his coffee with his thumb.
 
Bill Moore 12/14/2015 9:30 AM
Did anyone catch Mr Trump's reply to the Saudi prince criticising him on his call for a ban? Don't know if he responded, but Trump wondered how many Syrian refugees the Saudis have taken in, (the correct answer is zero). Seems there might be terrorists among them, and since they are a different people, they wouldn't assimilate well with their population.
None of the wealthy arab states have taken in any Syrian refugees!
Who would've thought?
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/14/2015 3:36 PM
Donny Drumpf & daesh & everything else pale by comparison to this. Have a read folks - call it "Bonfire of the Vanities Part II." Awful, just awful the way people carry on. I can't believe this sort of thing happens in the USA:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/us...r-mansion.html
 
The Dude 12/15/2015 5:51 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Mark, since he is not a true believer in the tennents of the religion, he doesn't speak for it!
Islam teaches to fight all unbelievers until they are dead, converted to islam, or under islamic rule. and paying a tax for the privilege.
I could only hope that the muslims would have a "reformation", as happened in the Christian religion. With the majority of their book devoted to when, how, and why to torture and kill non believers, and swearing never to rest until sharia law is universal, I don't see how!
Not all that different from some bible passages. Look, there are/have been radicals from most any religion. The literality of most any book is open to the interpretation of the reader. Do all Muslims want to kill the Christians because it says so in a book? I submit not any more so than all Christians want to kill "non-believers" because it says so in the bible. Creating more divide between the two only serves to escalate the situation.

TheReligionofPeace - Does the Bible really inspire violence like the Quran?
 
Mark Hammer 12/15/2015 7:20 PM
1) He was speaking on behalf of decency, not Islam.

2) Just how many Muslims do you actually know on a first name basis, because there is a whole mess o' stereotypes in your reply and not a whole lot of reality?
 
Bill Moore 12/16/2015 8:55 AM
I am not aware of any muslims in my area, I think there are some in Las Cruces.
The Dude's link is pretty good describing the quran admonishing followers to kill non-believers everywhere, and the old testament telling their believers to only kill a specific group that they were fighting at the time.
Another link to the "religion of peace" teachings. (Those darn stereotypes!)
Islam and Forced Conversion
 
Mark Hammer 12/19/2015 8:05 AM
You do realize that a great many similar snippets can be excised/isolated from the Old Testament that have similar exhortations, as the Israelites work their way from Sinai into where they are now, facing these ones and those in battle. I don't think anyone would presume for one moment that all those peoples who trace their religious roots to the Abrahamic texts and Old Testament think that's how one is supposed to behave these days. Do you think that all contemporary Muslims take the passages you link to as a directive for their current and future behaviour? Are all Christians supposed to butcher "Saracens" like they did in the Crusades? Are all Americans supposed to slaughter indigenous peoples without mercy like they did in the 1800's? Do you sincerely believe it to be the case that Muslims are absolutely incapable of saying/thinking/believing "Well, yeah, that's what they did back then, but these days we're different"?

Yes, some folks, in EVERY religion are going to be shallow literalists and make the rest of us scratch our heads at how little perspective they have. They're going to take text and treat it not as allegory or moral quandry to be pondered. But no religion has a monopoly on that. There are cognitively rigid people EVERYWHERE in every culture and every generation. Attributing their personality to all members of an entire religion is, well, a little cognitively rigid if you ask me.

Best not to be an example of what you despise.
 
Enzo 12/19/2015 8:24 AM
Amen, read the early books of the Bible that lay out how you are to live your life. I am sure a modern American wife will be thrilled when she is thrown out of the house during her monthly period, because she is "unclean".

There is a fun book titled The Year of Living Biblically, by AJ Jacobs. The man chronicles a year long attempt to follow all those rules. The book is respectful, not some anti-religious screed.
 
tedmich 12/19/2015 8:50 AM
R.I.P., GOP: Party of old, disillusioned white people is dying a slow death - Salon.com

Martin Shkreli and how the ruling class loots its own
 
Bill Moore 12/21/2015 9:29 AM
You must realize that to muslims, the book means what it says, because it is the work of their god. Since there is no way to change the meaning, (after all it is a "perfect" religion), it must be obeyed!
No one in the "they are just like us" crowd, can point to any Christian, or Jewish belief, that forces believers to murder, and torture others!
An article from 2008, but still timely today. If they are just like us, why would they want to change us?
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/m...tion-increase/
 
Bill Moore 12/21/2015 9:49 AM
I would like to see some documentation of a Christian preaching that the bible tells him to murder others because they are not of his faith!
Here's another muslim, who's "just like us"!
U.S. college prof: Christians ?filthy? in eyes of Allah
 
Mark Hammer 12/21/2015 10:59 AM
You do realize that Ultra-Orthodox Jewish extremists who firebomb or stab Palestinian co-residents in the West Bank believe themselves to be carrying out a mission designated by scripture? And Christians who have committed violent assaults at abortion clinics, planned parenthood offices, or centers they feel are supportive of abortion, also feel they are serving a Biblical directive. I am much less familiar with the Hindu sacred texts, but I imagine Hindu extremists that murder Muslims and other non-Hindus are likely also going to point to holy scriptures that either say, or they believe says, to attack "non-believers".

EVERY religion whose roots go back far enough, is likely to have had some period of military/tribal conflict, or era of harsh punishments for infractions, that shows up in scripture, and can be interpreted by zealots as a sound basis for attacking/murdering "the other". I'll grant you that, in terms of sheer numbers, a larger segment of the Muslim world is doing so. But then, the last 150 years have seen a great deal of oppression and conflict with the non-Muslim world, such that the sort of narrative depicted in those more violent parts of text resonate more with them. It's not as if those texts would have the same appeal to young Muslim men and women if everything in their corner of the world were just ducky, everyone had a nice place to live, decent standard of living, nobody dropping bombs on them, and no outside threats. No matter what it says in the Quran in the 1% constituting the weird bits that makes tons of Muslims just as uncomfortable as the weird bits in the Old Testament make most Jews, it is not in the nature of the overwhelming majority of Muslims to wake up in the morning thinking how can they screw over non-Muslims (or worse).

Next Ramadan, go to a mosque, or wherever Eid-al-fitr is being celebrated by the community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Fitr). They will welcome you with open arms, and feed you real good. You will experience not the faintest whiff of hostility or suspicion or proselytizing.

Look for the worst in people, and you'll always find it. Look for the best, and you'll always find that, too.
 
nsubulysses 12/21/2015 11:28 AM
Bill I encourage you to meet and converse with some muslim people. There is variance among muslim people just the same as there is variance in any category of people. The way you lump all muslims together in sameness is the same way various middle eastern "extremists" lump together all westerners as godless morally corrupt hedonists hell bent on degrading the middle east. It's just not true. I bet you might even cite yourself as an example of how this blanket statement is false. I would also bet you would be very happy to represent yourself and not be marginalized to a stereotype.

This form of thinking and the extreme "otherness" in your thoughts and language is what keeps us all divided, in fear and in conflict with each other. There is a phrase that says "I'm guilty for what I've done, but not for who I am." I believe it was in response certain blacks haranguing whites for the injustices of slavery carried out by the previous generations. The same applies to muslim people, who are 99.9% not trying to kill you or convert you.
 
Steve A. 12/21/2015 12:12 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
You must realize that to muslims, the book means what it says, because it is the work of their god. Since there is no way to change the meaning, (after all it is a "perfect" religion), it must be obeyed!
No one in the "they are just like us" crowd, can point to any Christian, or Jewish belief, that forces believers to murder, and torture others!
An article from 2008, but still timely today. If they are just like us, why would they want to change us?
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/m...tion-increase/
Bill:

There are an estimated 1.7 billion Muslims in the world (over 23% of the total population.) I looked at various studies and I'd go along with one finding that roughly 93% of the Muslims would be considered to be moderate. Of the remaining 7% I would guess that only a handful would be considered to be terrorists actively pursuing violence to further their goals.

http://media.gallup.com/WorldPoll/PD...uslimWorld.pdf

I was reading about Muhammad and learned that besides being a religious leader he was also a political and military leader. The Muslims were driven out of out Mecca by the pagans in 622A.D. and they retreated to Medina. After many battles and much bloodshed they regained Mecca in 630A.D. So it could be said that Islam was born in violence and bloodshed. However, after retaking Mecca Muhammad reportedly said that the greater jihad was in one's soul.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Timeline_of_Muhammad

My initial exposure to Islam was in the 60s and 70s with many black musicians and athletes converting to it, often taking a Muslim name. I think that part of the reason was that Christianity was often used by whites to oppress the blacks. In converting to Islam I don't think that their core beliefs necessarily changed, but just the external trappings.

Steve A.

P.S. I consider monotheism - whether Jewish, Christian or Islam - to be a big step up the "spiritual ladder" from the older pagan religions in the Middle East as they encouraged their followers to lead a more ethical life.

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TigerAmps 12/21/2015 1:00 PM
Steve I agree with what you said ... Most people are good and seek a better life for their families.

I think the momentum of Trump is deeply rooted in the peoples fear and frustration with a US government who takes taxes every pay period
has more interest in protecting and providing for foreigners and refugees, than it does protecting the citizens that pay their taxes.

I kind of look at the fundamental issues as:
1) The US is based on separation of church (religion) and state; yet ISIS and alike want religion to BE their "the law".
This is a polar opposite view of "the law" in the US. So you end up with "honor killings", killing of homosexuals, and other "punishments"
that just do not fit with the framework of US law. They are deemed "murder". The two ideas just can not co-exist.
No different the bombing an abortion clinic for religious reasons; it is still murder.

2) Do refugees and/or immigrants want to adopt the American way of life, values, etc and become citizens
or do they want to establish settlements to reap all the benefits the US has to offer; yet still live under the laws of the land they
came from in these "no go zones". The framework does not really support two sets of laws ruling the same country.
Do you have 2 supreme courts? Do the supreme court have no jurisdiction in these zone? It is more than religion or ethnicity;
it challenges the foundation and structure of the nation as well as the safety of the people.

Why do I look at it this way?
I was on my way to work at 2 World Trade on 9/11. The only reason I am still alive is that I worked late the night before
and was going to just start my day 2 hours later than normal. I was at the train station when the first plane hit tower 1.
Otherwise, I would not be typing this ....

People don't really understand terrorism unless it comes your way and you could have been killed or lost friends and co-workers.
Trust me one this one! I really "get it" and understand what the people in SAN BERNARDINO feel. People are afraid and want someone (anyone)
to stand up and address the issue!
 
Mark Hammer 12/21/2015 3:50 PM
I will also propose that if one were to conduct a survey of Americans, you'd probably find an equivalent 7% whose views are "Ah, just nuke 'em all and be done with it". I don't understand how the expression of anger and resentment towards the west by a segment of Muslims who hold a grudge but will NEVER in their life act on it is any different than the attitudes of a great many Americans, French, British, Hungarians, or Canadians.

I will never forget the conversation I overheard in a 7-11 in Montana or North Dakota during the first week of the first Gulf War. Two young men were talking, and one said he just couldn't wait to "get over there and kick some Ay-rab ass". Nobody has a monopoly on the stupid comfort of identifying an enemy you can blame for everything.
 
Steve A. 12/21/2015 5:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by TigerAmps View Post
I think the momentum of Trump is deeply rooted in the peoples fear and frustration with a US government who takes taxes every pay period
has more interest in protecting and providing for foreigners and refugees, than it does protecting the citizens that pay their taxes.
Robert Reich addresses this issue in his latest post, The Revolt of the Anxious Class, explaining how the middle class has much anxiety because while their income has stagnated with very little job security the government seems most interested in protecting the interests of Big Business and Big Money. The big foreign threat is not immigrants or refugees but corporations moving their headquarters overseas to avoid paying taxes here.

Business taxes here are too high? 15 major corporations avoided paying ANY taxes here in 2014...
As a whole, the 15 companies paid no federal income tax on $23 billion in profits in 2014, and they paid almost no federal income tax on $107 billion in profits during the past five years. All but two received federal tax rebates in 2014, and almost all paid exceedingly low rates over five years.
http://www.newsmax.com/t/finance/article/638367

With the big corporations using various schemes to reduce if not altogether eliminate federal taxes it places an undue burden on the smaller businesses.

Quote Originally Posted by TigerAmps View Post
I kind of look at the fundamental issues as:
1) The US is based on separation of church (religion) and state; yet ISIS and alike want religion to BE their "the law".
The same could be said for the radical Religious Right who want to base our laws on the Bible.

Quote Originally Posted by TigerAmps View Post
2) Do refugees and/or immigrants want to adopt the American way of life, values, etc and become citizens or do they want to establish settlements to reap all the benefits the US has to offer; yet still live under the laws of the land they came from in these "no go zones".
While everybody is talking about the benefits sought by immigrants or refugees I rarely hear about the contributions that they have made to our country since its very inception.
America has always been a melting pot but I share your concern about immigrants who refuse to melt into the pot, so to speak. However while the first generation immigrants might stick together their children and their children's children tend to be as American as the rest of us.
For that matter many if not most young people in the Middle Eastern countries (besides the religious nuts) want to adopt the ways of the West.

As for the concern of Trump and others about our porous borders letting Mexican immigrants in there are fewer illegal immigrants from Mexico than there were in 2007.

The number of Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. illegally has declined. In 2014, 5.6 million unauthorized immigrants from Mexico lived in the U.S., down by about 1 million since 2007.
What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico | Pew Research Center

Quote Originally Posted by TigerAmps View Post
People don't really understand terrorism unless it comes your way and you could have been killed or lost friends and co-workers.
Trust me one this one! I really "get it" and understand what the people in SAN BERNARDINO feel. People are afraid and want someone (anyone)
to stand up and address the issue!
Besides 9/11 most of the mass killings in country in recent years have been done by American citizens, quite often Christians.

I used to live in Oakland back in the 70s but it was not as bad then as it has become over the past 25 years or so. The people living in the poorer areas never know when they might be hit by a stray bullet. In many families whenever they hear gunfire they all drop to the floor immediately. While not terrorism per se many of the residents live in terror not knowing who they know who might be the next to be shot or killed.

We had a ban on assault weapons from 1994 to 2004 but the gun lobby and NRA have blocked all attempts to reinstate it. We have to register our motor vehicles - we even have to register our citizens with Social Security numbers! - but for some reason gun rights evidently trump our rights as citizens...

Blaming mental illness instead of firearms for the mass killings ignores the fact that people diagnosed with mental illness are usually less violent than the average citizen and are much more likely to kill themselves than kill others.

Yes, most of our mass killers have been mentally disturbed but it does not follow that most mentally disturbed are potential mass killers.

Steve A.

P.S. From the Robert Reich post...
It was only a matter of time before the anxious class would revolt. They’d support a strongman like Donald Trump who’d promise to protect them from all the chaos. Who’d save jobs from being shipped abroad, slam Wall Street, stick it to China, get rid of people here illegally, and block terrorists from getting into America. A strongman who’d make America great again — which really means make average working people safe again.

It was a pipe dream, of course — a conjurer’s trick. No single person can do this. The world is far too complex. You can’t build a wall along the Mexican border. You can’t keep out all Muslims. You can’t stop corporations from outsourcing abroad. Nor should you even try.

Besides, we live in a messy democracy, not a dictatorship.

Still, they think maybe Trump is smart enough and tough enough to pull it off. He’s rich. He tells it like it is. He makes every issue a test of personal strength. He calls himself strong and his adversaries weak. So what if he’s crude and rude? Maybe that’s what it takes to protect average people in this cruelly precarious world...

Most are good people, not bigots or racists. They work hard and have a strong sense of fairness. But their world has been slowly coming apart. And they’re scared and fed up.

Now someone comes along who’s even more of a bully than those who for years have bullied them economically, politically and even violently. The attraction is understandable, even though misguided.

If not Donald Trump, then it will be someone else posing as a strongman. If not this election cycle, it will be the next one.

The revolt of the anxious class has just begun.
 
Enzo 12/21/2015 8:54 PM
US government who takes taxes every pay period has more interest in protecting and providing for foreigners and refugees, than it does protecting the citizens that pay their taxes.
This is not the case. The protection and providing for of foreigners and refugees as you put it is what is getting national attention in the media, that's all. To say the US government has less interest in us is patently absurd. Pick any aspect of it. How much did we spend on highways here versus over there? We have a huge military and security apparatus to protect this country, with nowhere near that amount over there. We provide the FAA for commercial air traffic in this country, we have national power grids, we have the USDA and the FDA protecting our food and medicine, we have a national highway system, and it goes on. Out of the average American pocket comes about $80 a year for foreign development, while out of that same pocket comes over $100 for candy, and $200 for soft drinks. Less than 1% of the budget goes to foreign aid.
 
g1 12/22/2015 11:32 AM
The white supremacists are getting pretty excited about Trump. If he was not deliberately courting them, he must have at least seen it coming. I don't think he'll make much effort to distance himself from them.

How Donald Trump is breathing life into America&apos;s dying white supremacist movement - Chicago Tribune
 
Mark Hammer 12/22/2015 12:44 PM
Heard this rather interesting piece on PRI last night, that draws parallels between Putin and Trump. Short and worth listening to.

Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin have formed a mutual admiration society | Public Radio International
 
DrStrangelove 12/22/2015 12:47 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
Heard this rather interesting piece on PRI last night, that draws parallels between Putin and Trump. Short and worth listening to.

Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin have formed a mutual admiration society | Public Radio International
Like this one?

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Dave H 12/22/2015 1:31 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
EVERY religion whose roots go back far enough, is likely to have had some period of military/tribal conflict, or era of harsh punishments for infractions, that shows up in scripture, and can be interpreted by zealots as a sound basis for attacking/murdering "the other".
It's the 21st century, time to move on and put the dark ages and religion behind us.
 
salvarsan 12/22/2015 2:58 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Dave H View Post
It's the 21st century, time to move on and put the dark ages and religion behind us.
Are you kidding?!

"The American way of life is not negotiable." -- George Bush Sr., 1992
 
big_teee 12/22/2015 4:08 PM
Trump and his dirty remarks, is where I draw the line.
Saying H Clinton got Schlonged in 2008, and the vulgar remarks about her being in the bathroom, Really?
We need a president more dignified than that!
He's not even funny to watch any more!

T
 
Dave H 12/22/2015 4:16 PM
Quote Originally Posted by salvarsan View Post
Are you kidding?!

"The American way of life is not negotiable." -- George Bush Sr., 1992
Irrelevant, I found that quotation. It's nothing to do with religion.

The world was being gradually destroyed, environmentalists warned, by unsustainable consumption.

Hitting back at critics, then U.S. president George H.W. Bush famously declared: “The American way of life is not up for negotiations. Period.”


The USA sticking two (sorry one) finger up to the rest of the world, nice
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/22/2015 6:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Dave H View Post
Irrelevant, I found that quotation. It's nothing to do with religion.

The world was being gradually destroyed, environmentalists warned, by unsustainable consumption.

Hitting back at critics, then U.S. president George H.W. Bush famously declared: “The American way of life is not up for negotiations. Period.”


The USA sticking two (sorry one) finger up to the rest of the world, nice
More context: 1992 saw GHWBush in his re-election phase "Bushspeak", generally unable to utter a complete sentence. So let's give him credit for compiling one, even if it is short.
 
loudthud 12/22/2015 8:21 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Trump and his dirty remarks, is where I draw the line.
Saying H Clinton got Schlonged in 2008, and the vulgar remarks about her being in the bathroom, Really?
We need a president more dignified than that!
What's the alternative? More lies and political correctness? More career politicians that say whatever it takes to get elected and then pass laws that benefit the rich and corporate interests and screw the middle class? More of what we have now? How many lobbyist's are there in Washington? Something like 100 for every congressman? The Supreme Court has made it a First Amendment right to bribe politicians and it was the Right Wing judges that did it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize...ion_Commission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCutc...ion_Commission

Trump is the only candidate that can't be bought. The corrupt establishment, Republican, Democrat and the lobbyists, will do anything to bring him down. He's not the polished politician we've come to expect. He doesn't just read what you want to hear from a teleprompter. He doesn't do press conferences where all the questions have to be submitted in advance. He's not perfect and he will make mistakes. But in the end, America will be a great again.
 
big_teee 12/22/2015 8:31 PM
I rather doubt that he will ever get my vote.
I may write in Chuck H, Dude, or Leo first!
And, we don't need the Don, filing bankruptcy for our Nation!
T
 
Enzo 12/23/2015 1:04 AM
Can't be bought? I am not so sure. Does he need the money? No. But the whole deal with Donald is he hustles up deals. Why would he stop hustling just because he got elected? You think he'd become altruistic overnight? You think he'd become concerned for the welfare of anyone other than his core constituency? I sure don't. I think he'd be an international disaster of the highest order.
 
Bill Moore 12/23/2015 8:46 AM
Trump makes his thought known publicly, where many don't. Many folks want someone who says, and does the same thing.
I recall the LBJ quote, "if we pass this bill, those ni**ers will be voting democrat for the next hundred years"!
 
big_teee 12/23/2015 11:05 AM
He is repulsive, vulgar and mean.
IMO not a valid platform to run for President.
He will not get any of my families vote.
Eventually in the Election process, I think he will be held accountable for his comments, & actions.
 
Justin Thomas 12/23/2015 11:22 AM
While I don't necessarily disagree with his views, I do not like the presentation. Disrespect & dishonor are not a platform for any office, even if I do agree. His attitude and belligerence will take us far - into the deep end. And I am with Enzo - he CAN be bought. Just that the bribes will get even bigger. And I do not trust him to not sell me out to the lowest bidder in the name of him pocketing some cash. I really dislike the messenger.

Is there a candidate running who is NOT in favor of killing more strangers, invading more countries, and just being mean? Maybe I'll vote for that guy... Maybe.

Justin
 
The Dude 12/28/2015 6:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I rather doubt that he will ever get my vote.
I may write in Chuck H, Dude, or Leo first!
And, we don't need the Don, filing bankruptcy for our Nation!
T
I'm happy to have made your list. However, I don't think the country is ready for a chain smoking, vodka drinking, long bearded (see photo in THIS thread), musician as president.
 
Steve A. 12/28/2015 6:50 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
What's the alternative? More lies and political correctness? More career politicians that say whatever it takes to get elected and then pass laws that benefit the rich and corporate interests and screw the middle class?
True enough but it's not like Trump is the only alternative to that. Elizabeth Warren got a lot accomplished in protecting the rest of us by helping create and develop the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (although opposition from the GOP prevented her from being nominated as Chairman.) She had been fighting as an adviser for consumers against the big banks' lobbyists on federal bankruptcy policies since the mid-90's.
As for the two parties being Tweedledee and Tweedledum the GOP candidates have all vowed to dismantle the CFPB while the Democrats seek to strengthen its protections for consumers. Yes, many of the Democrat candidates have received large donations from Wall Street in the past but that doesn't mean that they will bow down to their every wish (as the GOP pretty much does.)
In reading Warren's books it is clear that she isn't a career politician and preferred it when she was a Harvard professor focusing on bankruptcy laws and acting as an adviser in Washington.

If we elect a Democrat for President in 2016 there is a much better chance that the policies recommended by Warren (and Sanders, too) will receive serious consideration.

Steve A.

P.S. Warren conducted some of the first in depth studies of bankruptcies in the early 80's. It had been assumed by all of the experts that bankruptcies were caused by people making poor life choices without them ever actually studying the issue. Well she looked into the subject in depth and found that most of the people filing for bankruptcy were just like the rest of us only they got shafted by huge medical bills or unforeseeable and unfortunate breaks. And that the bankruptcy laws were heavily stacked against the consumer which she has sought to correct. BTW she had been a Republican until 1996...
 
Leo_Gnardo 12/28/2015 8:17 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I may write in Chuck H, Dude, or Leo first.
I'm honored & delighted to be on your candidate list Terry!

FWIW I have received some - rare - write-in votes. Not from myself. For mayor, trustee and judge. Imagine that... Mayoral campaign based on the promise I would be the last mayor for this municipality.

Beard power is minimal. At best, mine would rate with Ho Chi Minh. I save my hormones for "more important stuff."

Drink only US made vodka. Texas in fact. (As long as Texas stays in the USA.) Tito's - from Austin. Recommended for those who imbibe. Within reasonable limits of course.

I promise to only chain-smoke what I could grow myself.

Considering some other candidacies that have taken place, sure why not? How hard could it be?

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Justin Thomas 12/28/2015 8:23 PM
Six-Fingers for Guv!

Justin
 
Steve A. 1/2/2016 12:28 AM
The year in crazy Trump quotes...

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” — at his candidacy announcement at Trump Tower in New York City, June 16

“He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.” — speaking of U.S. Sen. John McCain (R) Ariz., a former prisoner of war, at a GOP presidential forum in Ames, Iowa, July 18

“You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her … wherever.” — speaking of Fox News GOP debate moderator Megyn Kelly on CNN, Aug. 7

“I will say that people who are following me are very passionate. They love this country, and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.” — speaking of two Boston men, one of whom had claimed they were inspired by Trump when they beat and urinated on a homeless Latino immigrant, Aug. 19

“When these people (Asians) walk in the room, they don’t say, ‘Oh, hello! How’s the weather? It’s so beautiful outside. Isn’t it lovely? How are the Yankees doing? Oh they’re doing wonderful. Great.’ They say, ‘We want deal!’” — at a campaign rally in Dubuque, Iowa, Aug. 25

“Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?” — speaking of Carly Fiorina in Rolling Stone, in September

“They’re going to build a plant, and illegals are going to drive those cars right over the border. And they’ll probably end up stealing the cars.” — speaking of Ford Motor Co.’s plan to build a manufacturing plant in Mexico in Burlington, Iowa, Oct. 22

“It’s in the book that he’s got a pathological temper or temperament. That’s a big problem because you don’t cure that; that’s like, I could say, they say you don’t cure, as an example, child molesting. You don’t cure these people. You don’t cure a child molester. There’s no cure for it. Pathological, there’s no cure for that.” — speaking of Ben Carson on CNN, Nov. 12

“Look, I’m a negotiator like you folks; we’re negotiators …. This room negotiates perhaps more than any room I’ve spoken to, maybe more.” — addressing the Republican Jewish Coalition in Washington, D.C., Dec. 3

“Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.” — at a rally in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, Dec. 7
 
John_H 1/2/2016 9:58 AM
Even with all things considered, I don't find him nearly as disgusting as Mrs. Clinton.
 
big_teee 1/2/2016 10:20 AM
Donald Trump!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xQl4ybE9IeU/hqdefault.jpg
 
rjb 1/2/2016 1:39 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
What's the alternative? More lies and political correctness?
I doubt any professional politician could have more disregard for the truth than FactCheck.ORG's "King of Whoppers", recently awarded PolitiFact's 2015 Lie of the Year. And so on. Just saying.

Donald Trump, ?King of Whoppers? - Barron's
People Donald Trump
Donald Trump's file | PolitiFact

-rb
 
Steve A. 1/3/2016 3:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by John_H View Post
Even with all things considered, I don't find him nearly as disgusting as Mrs. Clinton.
I'm not a fan of Clinton and I'm sure that I would dislike her as a person if I ever met her but I think that she knows more about what is going on globally than any of the other candidates - although that is not necessarily what we need as a president right now.

The right wing conducted a smear campaign against Obama for almost 5 years and when he got re-elected they turned their focus on Clinton, as she was presumably in line to follow Obama. I'm sure that there is some truth in the attacks against her but with a smear campaign the truth and lies are all smeared together so it is hard to tell what is actually true.

As a Democrat I think that our party would have been much better off had Clinton been nominated in 2008 with Obama as her running mate before she acquired so much negative baggage in recent years.

For starters I really doubt that the Tea Party would have gotten off the ground with her as President so the Dems might not have lost both Houses. She could have resigned herself to a single term by championing health care reform (as she had started in 1993) and Obama could have stepped in unscathed to win 2 terms from 2013 through 2020.

Getting back to Hillary do you think that the other candidates are not guilty of many of the accusations leveled against her? Politicians are generally pretty slimy characters.

One of my conspiracy theories... I think that the GOP picked Palin as McCain's running mate because they wanted him to lose. (At that point nobody had any idea that she would become so popular among the conservatives.) In any case the GOP leaders knew that the economy was going to crash hard and that whoever was President would have to take the heat for it. A case of losing a battle to win the war... (Romney might have won except for the recording of him criticizing the 47%.)

Steve

P.S. While Clinton seems to be a real piece of work I believe that she will support many of the changes advocated by Sanders and Warren, much more so than any of the GOP candidates.
 
John_H 1/3/2016 9:54 AM
Mass media, and big corp have the propaganda machine running at full speed trying to keep her floating right now. Her history of corruption is not a rumor. The fact that it has been candy coated makes it easier to swallow when washed down with the liberal Kool-Ade. People are fed up, and things are near a tipping point. Her deceit, and obfuscation of facts will be brought out in the general election if she gets that far. In '08 she appeared to be almost a shoe-in if you were to trust the polls. We all know what happened then.

Quote Originally Posted by Steve
Getting back to Hillary do you think that the other candidates are not guilty of many of the accusations leveled against her? Politicians are generally pretty slimy characters.
They're the worst. People are weary of them. That's why straight talk is popular this election cycle.
 
Steve A. 1/3/2016 10:27 AM
Quote Originally Posted by John_H View Post
[Politicians are] the worst. People are weary of them. That's why straight talk is popular this election cycle.
I agree but I am hearing very little straight talk from anybody besides Sanders and Warren (who isn't even running.) All I hear from Trump is bluster and bullying. I didn't like guys like that in the 3rd grade and I certainly don't like them now.

Is agreeing to disagree an option these days? I haven't checked the rule book lately.

Steve A.

P. S. The person I agree with the most is Robert Reich. Regardless of whoever wins the election I certainly hope that she nominates Reich as Secretary of Labor...

www.robertreich.org
 
rjb 1/3/2016 10:40 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Il Duce | Il Douche
 
big_teee 1/3/2016 10:52 AM
I recommend getting used to the idea of HC being POTUS.
She will more than likely be our next president!
Like it or not, if you do the demographic group math, she comes out the winner.
I predict the right will vote to the right, and everyone else will vote for Hillary Clinton!
T
 
Steve A. 1/3/2016 11:07 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I recommend getting used to the idea of HC being POTUS... I predict the right will vote to the right, and everyone else will vote for HC.
Harmony Central??? I certainly hope not!
 
Enzo 1/3/2016 12:20 PM
Just my opinion, but I think a "President trump" would be an unmitigated disaster. My fears are realized now that Al Qaeda has made a 50 minute recruiting video based on Trump quotes and video. They don't even have to twist it to make him a villain to them. This is the downside of blaring bullshit internationally. All Al Qaeda has to do is show films of Trump and say "See??? This is what is popular in America."

I have to smile when I read:
Mass media, and big corp have the propaganda machine running at full speed trying to keep her floating right now.
Mass media doesn't get any bigger than Fox News, and they and other big corps are working full speed to sink her.
 
Bill Moore 1/4/2016 9:10 AM
So now they're taking a cue from Hillary, and adding Trump into recruiting videos, (they also feature her in that video, but that's not being reported). Previously they used Obama, Bill Clinton, and Bush.
You would think they just don't like anybody!
 
John_H 1/4/2016 11:20 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo
Mass media doesn't get any bigger than Fox News, and they and other big corps are working full speed to sink her.
Not a Trump endorsement, but I don't agree with this at all. Fox is the only voice of the media that isn't "progressive". They, like all of the other "big money corps" don't like candidates that can't be bought. Large corporations are HC's biggest donors. Network news is so biased now, it has become worthless.
 
Enzo 1/4/2016 2:28 PM
Well, I have to say that almost makes my point. You say network news is so biased as to be useless. OK, but Fox is also a network, of similar size and scope as NBC et al. And it is so biased the other way as to be useless. The right can't point to the mass media as biased and at the same time ignore the equally biased home team. Large corporations are usually the largest donors to any campaign. private individuals simply can't come up with 10 million bucks to contribute. And as far as big corporate donors, I don't think many are bigger than the Koch brothers, who are firmly planted on the right wing side. So same argument: the right can't point out how the left gets corporate donors wwhile ignoring their side also lives on big corporate donors. When it is claimed the mass media is trying hard to prop up Hillary, you can't ignore that the right wing media like Fox News are trying just as hard to undermine her. And just as dishonestly and as nefariously. Neither side gets a pass.
 
Justin Thomas 1/4/2016 3:03 PM
So then... Somewhere in between our wildly biased media toward both extremes, there MIGHT be some facts. Was it Rosie O'Donnell who said if you want to know what's going on in America, watch the news from outside America? Say whatever you want about her, she was right on that point... And there are some things that NONE of them will cover, because it doesn't fit their interests.

One thing I have to say in defense of John H' s post: Yes, Fox News is biased right. And every other major cable media outlet is biased left. And I see no evidence that Fox STATION is biased right. So, yeah, it's still a one-sided fight. What's that make it, five to one? But just to reiterate: I watch none of them. Don't even own a TV.

In the interest of transparency, I <DO> let my religious and social views cloud my worldview. I do <NOT> think you're all a bunch of "left wing loons" and "hell-bound heathens" for thinking otherwise.

Justin
 
Bill Moore 1/4/2016 4:06 PM
Does anyone remember Al Gore radio? Seems people will pay to hear the things not mentioned by most of the media. No Gore never went very far, nor any other lefty talk radio host, their message is already out there from most broadcast sources.
I don't have cable, but I get the major networks, (antenna). I try to watch some of the Sunday morning shows, but it isn't hard to see the bias. Chris Wallace will have an almost equal blend of commentators, wheras Stephanopolis will have a token conservative mixed with mostly liberals. (You will notice that neither Obama, or Hillary will come on Fox news Sunday).
Facts make the left uncomfortable, so they don't bother to ask them evidentiary questions, as viewers could easily see through the candidates mistatments. Most often they let the candidates on the left make crazy statements, (that even the host knows is wrong), without question. Chris Wallace will call anyone, (including Trump), out, when they try that on his show.
ABC/NBC/CBS shows stick to the hard questions from friendly commentators, (like, how crazy/stupid/ignorant is your opponent?) Never will they get a question like, "how will your proposed gun restrictions make any difference, when all the recent shooting were done by folks who would also have easily passed your new restrictions?"
Fox beat up on the Republican candidates in their debate, where the left got a pass on answering anything that would show their candidates in a bad light! (And kept the "debates" to a minimum number, so there was no chance of folks finding out that their favorite gov't subsidy may be cut to gain votes from another voting block).
 
The Dude 1/4/2016 5:12 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I recommend getting used to the idea of HC being POTUS.
She will more than likely be our next president!
Like it or not, if you do the demographic group math, she comes out the winner.
I predict the right will vote to the right, and everyone else will vote for Hillary Clinton!
T
I tend to agree with that- like it or not. IMO, this election was in the bag for Republicans. Considering the public's current dislike of government in general and Obama's poor approval ratings, all the GOP had/has to do was/is put up a slightly centrist candidate with reasonable conservative views and it would be a race. Instead they seem to be endorsing a severely fringe right wing blabbermouth who has already alienated women, blacks, latinos, and muslims- and he's not done yet. I see no possible way Don can win a general election. The GOP is like a brat kid who won't share a toy with his brother. And, for the next 4 years he's going to throw a temper tantrum because mom took the toy away and gave it to his brother.

P.S. Look for the next strategy to be making it difficult for millennials, minorities, and lower class citizens to vote. The DNC better have some lawyers at the ready.
 
Justin Thomas 1/4/2016 6:12 PM
As a social conservative libertarian with slightly socialistic tendencies because I'm not a multibillionaire or oil baron, who doesn't feel like being blown up by ANY minority faith or nationality or ethnic group or raving ranting crazy-president with an itchy button finger,

Dump The Ch(r)ump! (And Billary Too!)

Justin
 
Bill Moore 1/4/2016 6:29 PM
A lot of Trump supporters are democrats fed up with their treatment by their "betters".
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/31/up...crat.html?_r=0
Most of us are fed up with being taxed to pay for all the social programs. (that don't work), and favoring foreigners over citizens. The latest gift to the democrats in Ryan's deal gives priority to hiring non citizens, because of the tax breaks involved. What ever happened to hiring Americans first?
The democrats need new voters, and they don't care where the come from!
 
g1 1/4/2016 6:40 PM
You're being taxed to pay for all the corporate welfare, the normal welfare is a drop in the bucket in comparison. But no one is allowed to speak up against that, only against those at the bottom of the ladder.
 
The Dude 1/4/2016 6:49 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
...... The latest gift to the democrats in Ryan's deal gives priority to hiring non citizens, because of the tax breaks involved. What ever happened to hiring Americans first?
That is something I can agree with. I'm so tired of hearing how we need immigrants to "do the jobs Americans won't do". Why won't they do them? Because corporations who can certainly afford to pay a decent wage have been given an "out" by the government. They get by with paying 3 bucks an hour because Uncle Sam allows them to import cheap labor. It's a cop-out. They should be forced to pay a decent wage so that Americans WANT those jobs. It would help with both the illegal immigration problem and unemployment. The "We need immigrants to do jobs Americans won't do" argument is bullshit.
 
The Dude 1/4/2016 6:51 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
You're being taxed to pay for all the corporate welfare, the normal welfare is a drop in the bucket in comparison. But no one is allowed to speak up against that, only against those at the bottom of the ladder.
Yes! One man's "bailout" is another man's "entitlement".
 
Mark Hammer 1/4/2016 6:55 PM
A bizarre new animated show called Bordertown debuted on Fox last night ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border...6_TV_series%29 ). Fox is generally happy to go over the top on Sunday nights, but this one went even farther in treatment of Mexican stereotypes than anything I've ever seen. But here's the interesting part: it was absolutely savage in its treatment of how Anglos treat Hispanics. Particularly since the principle Anglo character in the show is a dumbass bigotted border guard, and the Mexican family he is so prejudiced against has a son with a Ph.D.

I don't know if Seth McFarlane and Co. saw an opportunity to take down Trump and Cruz, and the Arizona carry-your-papers-at-all-times folks via a cartoon show, and started developing this late in the summer, but boy it sure smells like it.
 
Justin Thomas 1/4/2016 7:08 PM
I will say something re: why companies won't hire "local." My Mom works in hospitality. A lot of applicants from America have 3 strikes: they DON'T want to do the work (housekeeping). They DON'T pass drug tests. And they HAVE been incarcerated for drug offenses, burglary, theft, etc. Those types of crimes don't fly when you're working in private homes. Mom gets a lot of labor from LEGAL immigrants - they pay thousands for the privilege of working in our nation for very high (to them) wages. They pay all the same taxes we do - SSI, Fed & State income, Medicare, etc. They will NEVER see a dime of entitlements, because they cannot afford the tens of thousands of $$$ and years of paperwork that it takes to become a citizen of this country. But nobody talks about amnesty for the ones who uae the FRONT door, follow all the rules, and pay into the system without complaint.
They nearly unanimously support Republicans, or any candidate who supports a fence and no amnesty. Why? Because they don't want illegal aliens taking their jobs! And THEY are the ones most likely to lose their jobs to illegal aliens, not Americans.

And since they're on the books, if they so much as screw up ONCE, they get deported permanently.

I know it's a very small portion of the "problem" but these are the LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who never get heard or spoken of. Just a few years ago they were used by Pelosi as political chattel in of the midnight debates over Christmas to get something passed under our noses.

Justin
 
Steve A. 1/4/2016 7:30 PM
Quote Originally Posted by John_H View Post
Not a Trump endorsement, but I don't agree with this at all. Fox is the only voice of the media that isn't "progressive". They, like all of the other "big money corps" don't like candidates that can't be bought. Large corporations are HC's biggest donors. Network news is so biased now, it has become worthless.
John: FOX News is not just a news outlet,* it has been run from Day One by former GOP operative Roger Ailes with a very specific agenda. Each day starts off with a list of talking points which the hosts of each show are expected to use in a coordinated attack against the "targets du jour".

The only network I trust is PBS which has a left-wing bent but they do strive to be honest and fair.

While all politicians tend to be slimy crooks I don't hold that against them per se - I listen to what they have to say to decide if I agree with them or not. "Judge what a person has to say on its own merits rather what you think about them personally." And yes,* there are many right wing positions that I agree with just as there are many left wing positions that I disagree with.

Here are links to some articles about Roger Ailes and Fox News...

How Roger Ailes Built the Fox News Fear Factory | Rolling Stone

Obama Rips Fox News For Spreading Class Warfare Propaganda

Distort, Attack, Repeat: The Fox Propaganda Machine in Action | Rolling Stone

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...723_story.html

This isn't the simple tit-for-tat we have come to expect in politics - Roger Ailes was able to accomplish the impossible in getting Nixon elected President, a politician with the natural poise and charisma of a steamed clam. Ailes staged fake news conferences and town hall meetings by renting a theater in towns and inviting only the sympathetic reporters to lob pre-arranged softball questions at him.

Ailes was also instrumental in getting George H. W. Bush elected by orchestrating the whole Willie Horton fiasco.

Steve Ahola

P. S. I don't get my news from the TV networks but from the major newspaper and magazine articles, doing additional research on issues using Google and wikipedia.
 
Enzo 1/5/2016 5:50 AM
An agricultural concern out west did an experiment some years back. They had heard the "Americans won't take the jobs" argument and wanted to test it. They posted openings in field work, the stuff immigrants do, and had over 11,000 applicants immediately from "Americans" showing interest. When it came down to offering them the jobs, only three accepted.

In general, nowhere are Americans fighting to be first in line for jobs cleaning homes/hotels or picking fruit and vegetables.
 
Bill Moore 1/5/2016 8:44 AM
My uncle, and grandpaw farmed some land by the border in the 50's and 60's. Their main source of labor was Braceros, mexicans with legal status to work here, and run by the farm bureau. The farmers supplied housing, and transportation to get groceries, (my uncle, a religious man, also paid a priest to come out on sunday to preach a service for the hands). They constantly advertised for American labor, (as required), but got few takers, when they did, they paid them more, and furnished fuel for them to drive to the farm, none stayed for more than a few weeks. In 1967, the Bracero program was discontinued, and my folks got out of the farming business. They could see no way to farm 500 acres of tomatoes without labor.
Also: Report: More than half of immigrants on welfare
 
John_H 1/5/2016 9:20 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Well, I have to say that almost makes my point. You say network news is so biased as to be useless. OK, but Fox is also a network, of similar size and scope as NBC et al. And it is so biased the other way as to be useless. The right can't point to the mass media as biased and at the same time ignore the equally biased home team. Large corporations are usually the largest donors to any campaign. private individuals simply can't come up with 10 million bucks to contribute. And as far as big corporate donors, I don't think many are bigger than the Koch brothers, who are firmly planted on the right wing side. So same argument: the right can't point out how the left gets corporate donors wwhile ignoring their side also lives on big corporate donors. When it is claimed the mass media is trying hard to prop up Hillary, you can't ignore that the right wing media like Fox News are trying just as hard to undermine her. And just as dishonestly and as nefariously. Neither side gets a pass.
We agree more than we disagree. The polarization between the two major parties is manipulated by "Big Money", and their lobbyists. They like it that way. They are the enemies of our prosperity, and wellness as a nation. The voice, and opinion of the common man is totally overshadowed by the big contributors. They are the biggest piece of the problem with our society. If their influence were to be lessened, our legislators would maybe be elected on their merits, and platform instead of mudslinging, or a popularity contest. There are way too many lawyers, and academic professionals in elected office. Most all of them backed by the financiers of which we speak. They own the media outlets that spew the biased propaganda, and they endorse the candidates that fit their agenda. This is in no way fair to "We The People".
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/7/2016 4:27 PM
In tried & true Trump style, the Donald campaign has handed out 20,000 tickets to his appearance tonight in Burlington Vermont. 20 thousand tix for a venue that has a capacity of 1500, mind you. Let's see how this goes! If I was one of the 18,500 denied entrance, there goes my vote. Vermonters don't get much to riot about - maybe this fiasco will change that.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/7/2016 4:44 PM
In tried & true Trump style, the Donald campaign has handed out 20,000 tickets to his appearance tonight in Burlington Vermont. 20 thousand tix for a venue that has a capacity of 1500, mind you. Let's see how this goes! If I was one of the 18,500 denied entrance, there goes my vote. Vermonters don't get much to riot about - maybe this fiasco will change that.
 
Enzo 1/7/2016 4:48 PM
To me it wouldn't be a matter of I didn't get it, instead be a question of what were they thinking. Were they so inept they didn't realize the size of the hall? I can't believe that. Did they do it purposely, maybe to make him appear so much more popular? That is cynical, but they do stuff like that. "Yeah, we booked a hall, but then 20,000 people showed up."

I cannot believe their team was not aware of this, and it shows a disregard not only for their fans, but for the police and other authorities who have to now deal with it.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/7/2016 5:04 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
it shows a disregard not only for their fans, but for the police and other authorities who have to now deal with it.
Oh don't worry, Burlington police chief says he'll have half his staff (that's 50 cops, fifty) on duty to control the crowd & make way for the VIP's. Maybe they can hand out scoops of Ben & Jerry's to one and all while they're standing guard. Bread and circuses. And ice cream.

Inept, that's the future we have to look forward to. (Sigh...) And we're well trained to it, inept AND expensive, and getting more so all the time.
 
Mark Hammer 1/7/2016 5:35 PM
Great idea for a new B & J Trump-themed ice cream flavour! "This guy's Nuts"
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/7/2016 5:42 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
Great idea for a new B & J Trump-themed ice cream flavour! "This guy's Nuts"
Let's go with it! Half-gallon size box, one spoonful of ice cream inside. And a couple of nuts.

Naah, just one nut.
 
Mark Hammer 1/7/2016 7:35 PM
Well maybe you don't know what that apostrophe implies. ANYBODY can throw almonds or pecans or macadamias into a bucket of chocolate. I'm talkin' testicle-flavoured ice cream. Yes, a container of ice cream with little candy-coated bits of "the Donald's" cojones, because they are HUGE....enough that after making the ice cream, there's plenty left over for him. This is a container of this guy's nuts.
The slight against his reasoning and ethics, well that's just a bonus.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/7/2016 7:50 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
a container of ice cream with little candy-coated bits of "the Donald's" cojones, because they are HUGE
Well, allrighty then! Send the first box of this quiescently frozen confection to Hillary. (To add to her collection.)
 
km6xz 1/8/2016 7:35 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Trump makes his thought known publicly, where many don't. Many folks want someone who says, and does the same thing.
I recall the LBJ quote, "if we pass this bill, those ni**ers will be voting democrat for the next hundred years"!
Sorry, LBJ might have used terms not correct today, no one deliberately crashed down segregation in rights, immigration, housing, the supreme court or education than Johnson and the quote you manged is "We have lost the South for a generation" in referring to the Democrats probably losing elections for a generation for doing what was right passing the 64 Civil Rights Act( with a great many Republican votes back when they were still patriotic).

Trump is a perfect fit for a 25-30% minority in the US still steamed over civil rights, and who pride themselves as being truly ignorant of the world. Trump might know how to make a deal that enriches himself but knows nothing of managing anything to benefit anyone but himself. He knows nothing about the world but given those very poor qualifications, he is still better than the rest of the republican corporate and Koch whores.
There is only one honest person(two actually but the woman no matter how honest will not get more than 1-2% of the vote with only 5% of the population ever hearing of her Jill Stein) and that is Sanders. I disagree with him in his slavish support of Israel regardless of their terrible behavior in their region but on domestic issues, Sanders is the only one who understands it and knows what must be done to become a democracy and right the ship.
Trump at least said he was willing to talk to other leaders and see what their beef is, and suggested he did not see why we had 800+++ bases in the world. That got a lot of people's attention in Europe and Russia where he did not seem like such a buffoon on that one point. Every other candidate is promoting the Wolfowitz Doctrine which will expand wars in every part of the world. Obama was captured by the neo-cons left over from the Cheney cabal, and was too influenced by the horrible decisions of Clinton in her stay in SoS office. She is the one who pushed Obama to destroy the second to last secular society in the middle east, Libya and mutilate its leader, handing it to jihadist extremists. Clinton, Bush, Obama and H. Clinton, all jumped into mindless wars against people who did nothing to us, without a thought to what would happen when those societies were destroyed.
I am supporting Sanders in the hopes that as the sole experienced, wise person with good intentions, he will listen to the military which in every one of these political wars of empire building strongly warned against any of them fearing the results of exactly were the results. Clinton pushed a foreign policy neophyte Obama into creating a new cold war much more dangerous than the one that ended 30 years ago. That disqualified Hillary Clinton from ever holding power again. She is as hawkish as McCain and smarter enough to actually cause the trouble he could never pull off. She and Obama have managed to really strain relations with western Europe by backing Turkey, the chief supporter or terrorism in the region, in the midst of NATO over western Europe. Support of KSA mindlessly, the two most dangerous promoters of radical Islam in the world just because they claim to be against Assad. Obama and Clinton's obsession with regime change in Syria is mind boggling insane, and threatening world war over it on fake "evidence" as bad as the Cheney "yellow cake" and "Aluminum tubes" in conning the world into regime change in Iraq and killing a million people. These current lies are likely to kill tens or hundreds of millions.
The incompetence and recklessness of adopting the neocon unipolar world concept by Obama and Clinton have made the world far more dangerous but have made MIC incredibly profitable. It has forced China to move a lot of money into defense buildup with very advanced technology and for Russia to build up its defense. The one country left undefended is the continental US. 800++ bases over the world attempting to control 150 countries, has left the US mainland with little survivability in case of world war. Almost all the defense budget on systems goes to offensive weapons and little for defense. There are no hardened civil systems, like power or water supplies, no hardened communications or transportation and a whole society entirely dependent on external systems that are very fragile and would be targeted first. What would you do if suddenly power and internet went down? You can't even use your car, even gas stations require both internet, a banking system and electricity. Do you have 6 months of dry foods(frozen do not count since they would thaw in days). There are lots of bases in the US but the nature of them means they have no defense function. Half are training bases, some are maintenance and others are logistics, very few have defense capability. The whole concept of having all the bases and equipment in other countries was to control threats external so none would have to be defended against inside the US. Both Russia and China and others have missiles that are faster than any anti-missile system, even if only a conventional war was fought, the US would be severely damaged because it is so dependent on fragile systems. It was just conjecture in the past but now, the path the US is taking in foreign policy in boxing in and trying to crush any competitors means war is absolutely the only possible end result unless sane people take control of the policy of the US. Trump might be a clueless narcissus but he does not know about and probably would not listen to the neocons controlling foreign policy, maybe, and maybe Sanders would listen to reason and halt their control over our fate but as I see it the only options we have that could pave for any improvement would be an incompetent trump who did less harm, or a humanitarian, wiser Sanders. Bush, Cruz, Clinton, Rubio, etc...sorry, nothing could improve and right now might be considered as good times compared to what those people have in mind.
All other issues are minor side issues that are overshadowed by the destructive foreign policy that makes everything else a moot point. A civil war in the US would be better for the world than the current path of world domination and powerful forces starting to resist it.
 
Bill Moore 1/8/2016 8:33 AM
I don't think he actually oversold the event. It has been the practice of the left to obtain tickets, and then not show up in an attempt to make Trump's crowd numbers seem like the wicked witch's.
Seems they were too smart (by half!)
 
Enzo 1/8/2016 1:06 PM
Bill, please explain.

The left "obtains tickets"? Ok, But Trump ISSUED the 20,000 tickets. Unless you are accusing the left of counterfeiting them. So are you suggesting that Trumps expected that 19,000 lefties would obtain tickets they had no intention of using, leaving 1000 for true fans who would show up? And thus no problem? AS much of an asshole as I think Trump is, I have no problem believing he could attract a crowd of 10-20 thousand.
 
Bill Moore 1/8/2016 2:30 PM
I guess I'm the only one who tries to get all the news, not just the MSM talking points.
Here is the idea, but for an earlier Trump event. (It of course didn't work out then either)!
Sign up for this Donald Trump event and don?t go
 
Mark Hammer 1/8/2016 3:09 PM
That's not "news", Bill. That's a posting by some rather irresponsible instigators. Do you know how many people followed up on that rather undemocratic suggestion, and the extent to which it actually prevented a turnout of Trump supporters? If that had been reported, it would have been news, and I imagine it would have also been reported, since it fits the definition of "dirty tricks". But what you've posted is merely an opportunity, not an actuality.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/8/2016 3:16 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
I don't think he actually oversold the event. It has been the practice of the left to obtain tickets, and then not show up in an attempt to make Trump's crowd numbers seem like the wicked witch's.
Seems they were too smart (by half!)
Practice? PRACTICE??? I also do my best to obtain news from a variety of sources, you'll be glad to know none of them are "MSM" whatever that is. I've never heard of the "sign up but don't show up" shuffle. If it was for real, why don't millions of Trump fake-fans sign up? Why would his campaign limit the ticket number to only twenty thousand. The over-subscription of Trump tickets reminds me very much of The Donald's real estate deals, where he affixes his "much respected" name to a half ass project, which attracts the sort of rich nincompoops who want to be associated with the mighty Donald. Then he removes his support, to the point his actual interest in such project is between zero and 7%, let it succeed or fail from there.

Somebody has a very active imagination. And it doesn't take much imagination to dream up "false flag attacks." They're in every cheap spy novel, by the thousands Double reverse triple-agent false flag attacks too. Before long both the readers and the spies can't figure out who's on who's side. Makes le Carre' look like Weekly Reader.

What with all this practice, practice, it's a wonder they haven't been invited to play Carnegie Hall.

Note the police chief's comments: "If Phish held a free concert here and gave away twenty thousand tickets to a 1400 seat hall, that would be a safety hazard and we'd shut it down before it got started. BUT since we're supporting FREE SPEECH, and that's part of the US Constitution, it's OK for Donald Trump to do it." Huh Chief? Somehows I can't wrap my tiny little mind around that (failure of) logic. I guess Chiefie's suggesting Donny Trump's right to free speech trumps (!) that of Phish.

Also note the cops were all too happy to hustle those attendees out the door when The Donald or his henchmen, oops, campaign assistants identified them as non-supporters. Earlier in the day, tweets from The Donald said come one, come all, didn't advise non-supporters they would be denied entry or bodily removed from the venue. IOW he wanted to MAKE A SHOW of removing those who do not pledge allegience to the Emperor, oops, candidate. Not the first time black-shirt techniques have been employed in the Trump campaign. When will they show true colors, and wrap swastika armbands around black-shirt sleeves? Appalling is what it is.

Those who are paying attention to multiple news feeds, what was the crowd estimate in Burlington last night?

While we're examining questionable "news" stories, my Aunt says she heard a report that Obama's fathered many out-of-wedlock children. Where - she can't remember. Anybody hear that one? Along with the "get tickets & don't go" report, I'm filing it with the National Exaggerator's report of President Dubya having a summit meeting with outer-space aliens.
 
Bill Moore 1/8/2016 3:24 PM
From the reporting on the Burlington event, quite a few non supporters showed up. Many were turned away at the door, others that heckled were shown the door. As for disrupting Trump's events, the left could only hope! The fact that many showed up, and were turned away shows the idea of overselling the event, a smart move. (The MSM did show the folks lined up around the block for the event this morning).
It has been reported and linked to in places like Drudge Report, but unless is helps the left, it's going unreported in the MSM.
 
Bill Moore 1/8/2016 3:28 PM
Latest: Trump crowd estimated at 2,000, plus protests
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/8/2016 4:11 PM
OK then, maybe you & "Death&Taxes" are on to something. 18,000 no shows, harrumph! Enough to (not) jam Madison Square Garden. One thing to consider, even ardent supporters value something they get for nothing, as nothing. "So what you got tickets Doris, I wanna stay home and watch TV." And that's just what they do.

It doesn't take much of a computer "genius" to set up a bot to order one ticket after the other, especially considering the campaign doesn't bother to check for an authentic return email address. Some of the comments under the D&T article are hilarious - a ticket issued to "Imnotgoingtothisevent Troll" for instance. If a real internet troll & his buddies were to apply themselves, they could undermine any and all free ticketed events by ordering early & often. Not that I'm suggesting anyone should... And if the candidates have any smart cookies on their staffs they could counter the trolls maybe? What a great way for people to waste their time. If scalpers can scoop up thousands of tix for rock concerts, should be no reason someone can't do it for candidates, any half clever 11 year old could do it with a smart phone in 3 minutes.

Of course it's entirely possible that the 20,000 ticket figure was just another made-up story. Now let me read you Goldilocks & the Three Bears.
 
Mark Hammer 1/8/2016 7:31 PM
Given the last 8 months, such tickets are also novelty items. I mean, whether you did or didn't like Trump, whether you're a Republican or Democrat, fess up: wouldn't you like to have one of these tix to show your friends?
 
Enzo 1/8/2016 7:57 PM
Either the whole story is a lie, or they rally did issue 20,000 tickets for a 1400 seat venue. Now if EVERY SINGLE TICKET had been snapped up by vicious lefties, that still doesn't negate that the trump team OVERSOLD their venue by 18,000. Knowingly.

Leo, when the police chief said the rules were different for Trump, he was speaking ironically. He wasn't supporting the idea.


If the Trump team only issued 1400 tickets, one per seat, and THEN lefties managed to snag them all so the hall was empty, THAT would be a story. But that isn't what happened here, is it.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/8/2016 8:29 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Leo, when the police chief said the rules were different for Trump, he was speaking ironically. He wasn't supporting the idea.
I'm not so sure Enzo, I've tried to read it that way & it's just not making it thru my thick skull. Even in a hippy dippy college town like Burlington, the cops luuuuv to show off their power. Even more so when fueled by - a little extra ca$$$$h perhaps? Donald can afford to buy/rent friends who will do his bidding. The local fuzz looked very happy to remove those who didn't "conform to standards" from the theater. You didn't have to be a protester or heckler, those who would not give a verbal pledge to Trump got kicked out even if holding a ticket. Chief says "they were trespassing." Horse manure. They had TICKETS plus Don's tweet earlier in the day "ALL are welcome!". If trespassing, why were they not charged, ticketed, required to appear in court and pay a fine. Paid. Police. Harassment. "Donald paid US more than YOU will."

Looking forward to a '16 Republican convention that may very well surpass the '68 Chicago Democratic convention riot.

Earlier in the day, about noon when the upcoming fiasco was obvious, tweeted Trump "they won't allow us to broadcast outdoors." IOW no PA system for those stuck outdoors. Boo-hoo. Too bad because it's likely an old friend of mine who would have gotten the gig. Wonder who exactly put the kibosh on it? And in the end there were few who would have benefited from hearing the audio feed from inside the theater. Those interested could pick it off youtube on their plastic pocket pals.
 
salvarsan 1/8/2016 9:50 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
Given the last 8 months, such tickets are also novelty items. . . . wouldn't you like to have one of these tix to show your friends?
What can you do with them?

They're too stiff for use as toilet paper.
 
Enzo 1/9/2016 7:19 AM
Leo, even if that cop truly thinks it is OK for them to treat Trump differently, do you think anyone other than the Sarah Palins of the world is so remarkably stupid and lacking in media savvy as to come out and categorically state they think the rules don't apply to trump? I have a real hard time believing that. When I read his comments, I always hear in my mind a parenthetical, unsaid "I suppose" or "apparently" before the sentence.

rationalizing new conspiracy theories doesn't make it any more likely in my view.
 
big_teee 1/12/2016 10:07 AM
This is what Trump said about football, and how compassionate he is.
He wants to make football great again with more Concussions.
IMO this proves he doesn't care about anyone but himself!
T


Trump took particular issue with the way the games are officiated. He suggested that NFL referees make unnecessary penalty calls, saying they “throw flags so their wife sees them at home.”

"What used to be considered a great tackle; violent head-on. You used to see these tackles, and it was incredible to watch," Trump said. "Now they tackle -- 'Oh, head-on-head collision, 15 yard [penalty]' -- the whole game is all screwed up. You say, 'Wow, what a tackle.' Bing. Flag.”
 
tedmich 1/12/2016 11:34 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
This is what Trump said about football, and how compassionate he is.
He wants to make football great again with more Concussions.
IMO this proves he doesn't care about anyone but himself!
T


Trump took particular issue with the way the games are officiated. He suggested that NFL referees make unnecessary penalty calls, saying they “throw flags so their wife sees them at home.”

"What used to be considered a great tackle; violent head-on. You used to see these tackles, and it was incredible to watch," Trump said. "Now they tackle -- 'Oh, head-on-head collision, 15 yard [penalty]' -- the whole game is all screwed up. You say, 'Wow, what a tackle.' Bing. Flag.”

This is entirely the GOPs appeal, to reclaim a great America from the 1950's that in large part, never was. Its the same playbook as Reagan telling all the newly screwed white blue collar workers in the 1970s that they were somehow going to get everything back from the people who took it from them: ie the only people with less, immigrants, blacks and the poor. Since the only people who can even run are rich machine insiders, you certainly can't blame THEM for the fact that they won. It simply must be someone external to this obvious two tiered system, perhaps space aliens or demons, who is to blame...

"The great NFL players like Butkis never got concussions.." he was also 6"3" and 245 and would be retired in about 1 year of the current NFL, if he ever even made it on the field...
 
big_teee 1/12/2016 11:54 AM
Trump would have really liked Gladiator Sports.
I can see him in the Peanut gallery, giving the Thumbs down sign! (Kill the Poor Bastard)
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/12/2016 11:56 AM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
This is entirely the GOPs appeal, to reclaim a great America from the 1950's
I think you missed by a century, the 1850's was the good ol' days. You could own slaves, nobody gave you a hassle about it. Didn't have to rent 'em, pay 'em, provide benefits nor pensions, plus you could breed 'em, not much of a challenge there, and sell off their kids for a handy profit. Make America great again!

Keep in mind the freshly minted Republican party (just changed their name from Whigs - because that's a silly name) wasn't too happy about Abe Lincoln's attitude back then either. Heck even Lincoln wasn't fully settled about it.

"The great NFL players like Butkis never got concussions.." he was also 6"3" and 245 and would be retired in about 1 year of the current NFL, if he ever even made it on the field...
DT knows nothing as usual about how good a player he, or anyone was. Don just likes his name.

Quote Originally Posted by big_teee
Trump would have really liked Gladiator Sports. I can see him in the Peanut gallery, giving the Thumbs down sign! (Kill the Poor Bastard) T
You bet, check the big glittering gold TRUMP scoreboard in the Colosseum: LIONS 1, Christians 0. Yaaaay, team! Git' em Lions! Cheerleaders too: Eat em up eat em up chow chow chow, bite 'em in the rear end, bow wow wow!

Quote Originally Posted by Enzo
Leo, even if that cop truly thinks it is OK for them to treat Trump differently, do you think anyone other than the Sarah Palins of the world is so remarkably stupid and lacking in media savvy as to come out and categorically state they think the rules don't apply to trump? I have a real hard time believing that. When I read his comments, I always hear in my mind a parenthetical, unsaid "I suppose" or "apparently" before the sentence. rationalizing new conspiracy theories doesn't make it any more likely in my view.
I don't buy it. YES they really are that remarkably stupid etc, but one thing they do understand is feed raw meat to the media and you will get attention. One reason McCain lost is enough voters understood how patently dumb his VP was/is, and did NOT want her a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Trump, I needn't say another word. And the police chief, he wants his moment in the media sun too. He's made a few statements since the rally, having nothing to do with it, inflammatory crap designed to get attention. Which is precisely why I do not mention his name or provide a link; far be it from me to help shine the spotlight of attention on him. If it's of interest, take your time & look it up. Also take them at their word, don't edit in "I suppose" or "apparently", all that does is obscure their bright shining idiocy.
 
Bill Moore 1/12/2016 1:54 PM
Leo, if we go back a century to the founding of the GOP, and Lincoln, we have extreme protectionism, high import/export tarriffs, (Lincoln ran on instititing the Morrill tarriff, raising the rate from the teens to 30+ percent). The northern states had a federally enforced exclusive on ship building, and shipping, and the south was forced to sell their products to the northern manufacturers at a rate less than europe was willing to pay.
Lets not forget that the northern manufacturers had no reason to maintain healthy workers, there was always a steady supply coming off the boats. The plantation owners had to treat their slaves reasonably well, and just like any work animal, they were of no use if they wern't fed, and healthy.
 
big_teee 1/14/2016 3:17 PM
Donald Trump made fun of a Crippled Reporter with a disability.
New Low, Even for Donald Trump!
T
Donald Trump Criticized for Mocking Reporter with Disability, Claims He 'Merely Mimicked' - 2016 Presidential Elections, politics, Politics and Current Events : People.com
 
The Dude 1/14/2016 3:39 PM
Nothing that asshole says surprises me any more. Frankly, it scares the shit out of me that he could become president. Dibs on g1's basement. I'm moving to Canada if he wins.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/14/2016 3:43 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Donald Trump made fun of a Crippled Reporter with a disability. New Low, Even for Donald Trump!
One cripple mocks another . . . John Lennon had a jaunty tune on Imagine: "One thing you can't hide, is when you're crippled inside." No billions of dollars or funny hairdo can fix that. John starts right off, you'd think he wrote it for The Donald:

You can shine your shoes and wear a suit
You can comb your hair and look quite cute
You can hide your face behind a smile
One thing you can't hide
Is when you're crippled inside

one of several youtubes, George Harrison on dobro, you can't go wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgKujzjjTNI
 
g1 1/14/2016 5:36 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Dibs on g1's basement. I'm moving to Canada if he wins.
I think that would leave me in the doghouse .

And as I've stated before, we're not taking Cruz back either, he's all yours now.
 
Justin Thomas 1/14/2016 6:53 PM
Okay, I don't keep up with this stuff. Is Ted Cruz Canadian? Or is there some kind of joke?

Justin
 
g1 1/14/2016 6:57 PM
He was. (Ted Cruz's Canadian birth 'very precarious' issue, Donald Trump says - World - CBC News)
But let me be very clear on this: we're not taking him back!
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/14/2016 7:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
Okay, I don't keep up with this stuff. Is Ted Cruz Canadian? Or is there some kind of joke?

Justin
Felito, later changed to Teddy "Boy" Cruz born in Calgary. To a USA mom & Cuba dad. No wonder he's such a rabid anti immigrationist, now he's in, wants to slam the door shut behind him. But I'm not worried, if Texas secedes then there's 3 ways he won't be a USA citizen. And he can head out towards El Paso, see if he can find ways to make sand glow in the dark. If he eats some peyote I'll bet it will.

Word is, his fellow Senators can't stand him. Yes the Republican ones included. Think that bodes well for Congress-Presidential cooperation? Well, at least they'll be relieved he's no longer in the Senate.

g1, we're sending him back. You can park him outdoors at the Eureka Nunavut weather station, use him for a human wind direction indicator. Woops, that won't work, with all the wind that comes out of his mouth. How about soaked with salt water, to test wind-chill factor.
 
g1 1/14/2016 7:21 PM
The human chinook.
But let me reiterate, we're not taking...
 
Justin Thomas 1/14/2016 7:23 PM
Well then. It sounds like he's just as qualified to be President as the current guy. Take that however you want... but I don't recall hearing any outcry questioning his citizenship.

Justin
 
The Dude 1/14/2016 7:38 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
.....but I don't recall hearing any outcry questioning his citizenship.

Justin
Really? I recall hearing a boat load of outcry. I read something like 25% of Americans are still disbelievers.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/14/2016 7:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
but I don't recall hearing any outcry questioning his citizenship.
Then you're just not paying attention to Donald Trump. Don't worry, I completely understand. Meanwhile Felito Pequito aka Ted says Trump is "New York." Like it or not, NY is part of the USA, and was from the very first.

Funny thing, all the foofaraw over aliens, illegal aliens, anchor babies, interpretations of the 14th amendment, all make it too easy to be identified as a US citizen. But if a baby is born somewhere's beyond the border, NOT in a US controlled area like Panama Canal Zone, military base or embassy, even if one of the parents is definitely NOT a US citizen, then that baby is a US citizen. I say baby Cruz is Canadian, end of story. g1, surely you can find it in your heart to send him to some nice remote resort where he won't be any trouble at all. Baffin Island? Ellesmere Land? Or are you worried he'll accelerate polar ice cap melt. C'mon give the boy a nice job as a paperweight on Borden Island, in his spare time he can go surfing with the natives. Stand him up holding a sign, "This way to North Pole."
 
Justin Thomas 1/14/2016 8:38 PM
Well, I guess he's no more or less a citizen than Obama is, then... No, I really don't pay attention!
Democrican: We'll screw you this way!
Republicrat: No, we'll screw you a better way!
Democrican: Will not!
Republicrat: Will too!
Democrican: Will not!
Republicrat: Will too!
Democrican: Your momma so fat!
Republicrat: Your momma so ugly!

And so on...

Justin
 
big_teee 1/14/2016 9:07 PM
Cruz was not born in the USA.
He wouldn't even make a good Anchor Baby!
At Least an Anchor Baby, is Dropped on U. S. Soil.
Cruz has one US Parent and was not dropped on US Dirt!
He's a canuck and we need to send him back to G1.
Not the same As Obama, He had a US mom, and he has a birth Certificate that says he was born in Hawaii.
Remember, Hawaii is a US state.
T
 
Enzo 1/14/2016 10:14 PM
This^^^^

The whole birther thing that tried to dog Obama for months and months. He was born in Hawaii, a state of the USA. One of his parents was Kenyan, but he was born here.

Cruz was born in Canada, on Canadian soil. he had an American mother, and if the law says that qualifies him, so be it, but he was not born on US soil, by ANY measure.

McCain was born in the US Panama Canal Zone, an American territory then. He got some guff about it, but ultimately he made the cut.

Trump is doing his best to keep the Cruz birth issue stirred up without actually saying he's a foreigner.

So Cruz is less of a natural born American than Obama, but whether he makes the cut is up to the courts. I have no interest in pressing the issue.
 
Bill Moore 1/15/2016 8:34 AM
Maybe it will be settled here.
Cruz?s ?Natural-Born Citizen? Status Tested in Birther Suit - Bloomberg Business
At least Cruz has an actual birth certificate, vs obama's "certificate of live birth".
 
big_teee 1/15/2016 1:43 PM
He will probably get a 5-4 ruling, but it may take a while.
Trump has done a good job of generating doubt, and painting cruz as an illegal alien.
Here it is again.
We Have Our First Lawsuit Over Ted Cruz's Eligibility -- And It's A Doozy
I don't know how you can call cruz a citizen, when he wasn't born here.
T
 
rjb 1/15/2016 3:21 PM
Clearly, the intent of the framers of the constitution was to exclude C-sections and IVF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...citizen_clause

And now for some musical content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoH447t8LZ8
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/15/2016 3:36 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
Clearly, the intent of the framers of the constitution was to exclude C-sections
Well I wasn't gonna mention it... but since you have. From "Julius Caesar" by Billy Shakespeare "from his mother's womb untimely ripp'd". Those delivered by C-section (that "C" from Caesar, thanks Bill S!!) disqualified from becoming POTUS?

Now there's a suit, if it makes it to SCOTUS, you know how it's gonna go. Better get Cruz' hat size right now so we can have his crown ready.

And add this slice (heh heh) of tasty Pie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAZlf_9ObLg
 
big_teee 1/15/2016 4:25 PM
rjb, do you have to work that hard at being a smart A$$, or does it just come that easy?
 
rjb 1/15/2016 5:26 PM
I guess I'm just a natural born smart-ass.
Or it might have something to do with my NJ upbringing.
Nature or nurture, the eternal debate.
 
Enzo 1/15/2016 5:29 PM
Come on Bill, I hope that was tongue in cheek. Certificate of live birth is just that state's official wording. When I spent a year in Richmond VA, working at King's Dominion, every department there had a name like "Department of Fire" "County of Henrico". So I suppose we could say Richmond as no Fire Department, they only have a "department of fire".

I bet a lot of you have no driver license, just some old "operator's permit" or something. For that matter, my driver license has been a "chauffer's license" rather than a straight driver license since I was 20 years old. SO I guess I don't have a driver license either.


OMG, IVF. What if the egg cell was Canadian? Or worse yet, Kenyan? or maybe the zygote was conceived and fertilized by American citizens on American soil, but carried by a surrogate from Canada?
 
Dave H 1/15/2016 5:36 PM


I never 'got' Bill S. until I read this (I always struggled with the olde English). It's really sad but also really beautiful. Read it again if you don't get it first time.

Ruine has taught me thus to ruminate:
That Time will come and take my love away.
This thought is as a death which cannot choose
But weepe to have that which it feares to loose.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/15/2016 5:39 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
I guess I'm just a natural born smart-ass.
Or it might have something to do with my NJ upbringing.
Nature or nurture, the eternal debate.
Joisey? Which exit? (me too, grew up couple miles west of exits 143-147)
 
Enzo 1/15/2016 5:49 PM
I love that. You from Jersey? Which exit?


I spent the summer of 1973 in South Jersey, our band was playing the shore and in Phila. We played the Coral Gables in Margate a lot, introduced me to Lucy there. We had a band house somewhere half way across, a block from a Mrs. Paul's Onion Ring factory... neighborhood smelled like onion rings 24/7. Better than North Jersey which smelled like oil refineries.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/15/2016 7:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Better than North Jersey which smelled like oil refineries.
which may be a very good thing considering the thread title.

Heyyy.. well yeah, lots of areas did. And some worse. On more than one occasion the plant that made methyl mercaptan had a serious leak, that's the stuff they put in natural gas so you know you have a leak. I remember walking home from school, around age 15 (1968-69, around there) expecting the whole county to go up in a ball of flame. Picked up the phone, they had live operators then, the lady that answered said it stunk over at her office too, and the phone lines were clogged with calls to police and Public Service, the power company. Well North NJ didn't blow up, but Esso's Bayway refinery did in Linden, spectacularly one fine night. Blew me right out of bed @ 25 miles away. I thought WWIII had started. No such luck. Chemical companies were still venting anything they could into the air and/or pouring it into the swamp. A couple times huge piles of tires caught fire out there in the meadowlands (since capitalized once they put up a stadium.) Enormous black mushroom clouds rose over the eastern horizon, looking like slow motion atomic explosions. And the smell? Indescribably awful. Anything made with butyl- , pee-yooie!

After high school, a couple of my friends went to Stevens Institute in Hoboken, right across the Hudson from mid town Manhattan. A different atmosphere prevailed there: only a few blocks from Stevens, there was the Maxwell House roasting factory. You didn't need to buy a cup of coffee, it floated thru the air into your nostrils. Caffeine and all. MMmmmm, now that's the kind of air pollution I can deal with.

All this stink had been going on for many years, giving rise to the expression "on the Jersey side" iow, smelly. You find it in Fats Waller songs & other places. Before the refineries & chemical factories got going, Secaucus, Lyndhurst & nearby areas were paved with hog farms, gotta make sausage, chops & bacon! to keep the big city fed. Prevailing west winds brought the hog farm odor across the river to Manhattan. Cattle too, for milk, cheese & beef. Hey Noo Yawk, get a big sniff of our dairy air! (Those who speak French will appreciate that. If you need a translation, stand by, some helpful person is bound to set you straight.)
 
rjb 1/16/2016 12:01 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Joisey?
No, Jerhrzey. Joisey is Brooklynese.
I used to drink cawfee, until my vowels opened up when I moved to central PA. Now I drink coffee.

Which exit? (me too, grew up couple miles west of exits 143-147)
Exit 117A (southbound only) is for Lloyd Road in Aberdeen. Exit 120 is for Laurence Harbor Road and Cheesequake State Park. At this point, the road enters Middlesex County in Old Bridge Township.

I was born in Jersey City, but grew up in the sticks, inland from the Raritan Bay.
The nearest town was Matawan, which now calls itself Aberdeen.
I was surrounded by apple orchards in Madison Township, which is now Old Bridge Township.
The real reasons for the name changes are so ludicrous, I prefer to say the entire communities are in the witness protection program.

Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
You from Jersey? Which exit?
Clever. I've never heard that before.

I spent the summer of 1973 in South Jersey, our band was playing the shore and in Phila.
That was a year before I graduated high school.
But that's OK. I'm always missing things by a year, a day, or an hour.

I once drove to a bar in Deal with a buddy who had a friend in the house band.
Unannounced, Bruce and Clarence showed up to jam. The night before.

We played the Coral Gables in Margate a lot,
Wait, was that the place with the hand-written dress code: "NO COLORS. NO DIRTBAGS"?
Maybe I'm thinking of the Osprey Hotel in Manasquan.

introduced me to Lucy there.
As featured in Zippy the Pinhead.

Better than North Jersey which smelled like oil refineries.
As a kid, I used to surf fish for flounder off Sandy Hook.
Years later, at a job in Maryland, one of my co-workers had gone to my high school in NJ.
Once, his brother gave him some flounder- fresh caught from Sandy Hook.
Co-worker threw them in the trash because they stank of petroleum.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/16/2016 6:57 AM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post

I used to drink cawfee, until my vowels opened up when I moved to central PA. Now I drink coffee.
(you knew this was coming...) And I'm sure you feel much better for it! Living in NJ used to do that to me too. Coffee definitely helps, made with good water. Juzzie wata makes awful cawfie.

Oh... vowels!

Cheesequake State Park
Luv that name. The images it brings to mind... What I do remember in that area, and you're old enough to remember too, just south of the big Garden State Parkway bridge over the Raritan, there was a weird looking area with orange bluffs, looked like a patch of desert, a good spot to film scenes in cowboy movies. It's all been bulldozed now, turned into factories & parking lots, sic semper transit Jersey. When I was a kid, that bridge scared the heck out of me on trips to the shore, but seeing those wacky bluffs, I knew the bridge crossing was done, & the shore only another hour away.

I was born in Jersey City, but grew up in the sticks, inland from the Raritan Bay.
The nearest town was Matawan, which now calls itself Aberdeen.
I was surrounded by apple orchards in Madison Township, which is now Old Bridge Township.
The real reasons for the name changes are so ludicrous, I prefer to say the entire communities are in the witness protection program.
Had an aunt & uncle & 4 cousins that lived in old Old Bridge, south of New Brunswick, close enough.

There was Matteawan Hospital for the Criminally Insane, near where I am in NY, some 120 miles north of Aberdeen/Matawan. Now the ol' nuthouse has been de-named and just another part of Fishkill Correctional Facility. Maybe NJ real estate agents didn't want any association; confused potential buyers might avoid a place that had a name with negative connotations. You can imagine trying to sell a luxury home in a place named Alcatraz Gardens? In the future the same problem may persist with Trump Towers? We'll see.

Unannounced, Bruce and Clarence showed up to jam. The night before.
Ah now that's the good ol' days, they used to do that.

As featured in Zippy the Pinhead.
Yay Zippy! "Are we having fun yet?"

Unfortunately lots of future Zippy's are being born in Brazil right now, due to zika virus. Lets hope this doesn't spread. We have enough pinheads as it is. Some of them either want or already have careers as politicians.

- - - - - - -

And now, as an ending (we hope) to another very weird week, something that will warm the heart of any true blue NJ alumnus: a tribute to Uncle Floyd, "Slip Away" written & performed by David Bowie. Who knew Bowie was an Uncle Floyd fan? Don't forget to keep your head warm! Indeed as I type, a knit cap is doing just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimAyPdRtpg#t=22
 
Enzo 1/16/2016 11:38 AM
NO COLORS signs are way after my time. We used to go down to Newark Delaware and play the Stone Balloon a lot, I liked it and they liked us. BY the way, that is NEW-ARK, not NEW-urk. BIG dance bar, college town, sold tons of beer.

I had only known North jersey, but they don't call New Jersey the Garden State for nothing. When I first ventured out into the southern part of the state, for the first time I was exposed to 100 acre fields of tomatoes, for gods sake, 40 acres of eggplants. Fields of green peppers. And so on.

Margate was OK< it was between AC and OC. I used to go to the beach down at the point below OC. And it was fun to drive around Atlantic City, you see all the street names from a Monopoly board.
 
big_teee 1/16/2016 11:51 AM
Trump is learning to be a politician.
He is getting much more polished at the debates.
I still don't care for him, but he is good at what he says.
Don't think anything is un rehearsed or impulsive, like he lets on.
The Birther thing came up, because he was behind in Iowa.
Right now if I had to vote, I would vote for Bernie, because he wants to reduce Senior Drugs.
T
 
g1 1/16/2016 12:18 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Cruz has one US Parent and was not dropped on US Dirt!
He's a canuck and we need to send him back to G1.
Sorry T, he renounced his Canadian citizenship and he can't "un-renounce" it. Even if you all sign a petition on "we the people", we're not taking him back .

Seriously though, the term is "natural born", not US born. From what I gather, the term was never used again in the constitution, and never legally defined, so it's about time for some resolution on the definition, even if it has to go to the supreme court.
Cruz does have legal smarts, and giving up the CDN citizenship was done to avoid any issues with regard to this campaign. I'm sure he has the "natural born" angle all covered.

And non-seriously again, not sure if the US has all the nickelback humour we do, but came across this gem of an insult, the comments are quite funny also ("chick band" lol).
https://twitter.com/MichelleFields/s...013248/photo/1
 
rjb 1/16/2016 12:22 PM
Homecoming Week

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Juzzie wata makes awful cawfie.
We had well water, full of rust.
But I think this was the real culprit for the lousy coffee: Home - Chock full o'Nuts
I just bought a can at Costco. Boy, did it bring back memories- of every crappy diner and donut shop in the metro area.

Luv that name. The images it brings to mind...
Oh, did you know Wendy Stein too? Her house was on the park grounds... uh, never mind.

... a weird looking area with orange bluffs, looked like a patch of desert, a good spot to film scenes in cowboy movies.
NJ is full of geological oddities like that. Across the back of our neighbor's property was a wrinkle in the earth's crust where nothing grew. Billy Schuck and I used to "mine" fool's gold (pyrite) there. Rain runoff formed a pond near the base of the berm. Completing the cowboy movie imagery, the Schucks kept glue factory refugees as pets.

Had an aunt & uncle & 4 cousins that lived in old Old Bridge, south of New Brunswick, close enough.
The actual "old bridge" crossed the South River (not to be confused with the borough of South River) from the Old Bridge district of East Brunswick Township to the Old Bridge district of Madison Township- all in Middlesex County. Due to possible confusion with the borough of Madison in Morris County, Madison Township never had it's own post office. So we got our mail through the Matawan post office in Monmouth County.

Until a bunch of NYC boneheads moved into the Old Bridge district of Madison Township and decided that (even though Old Bridge was only one of many districts and unincorporated communities, e.g. Lawrence Harbor, in Madison Township) we could get our own post office if the entire township was renamed Old Bridge. So they tacked on a referendum to a low turnout election (for dog catcher or something like that) and got the name changed. But what they didn't know or take into account was: the USPS already had an Old Bridge post office in East Brunswick.

As you said, close enough.

There was Matteawan Hospital for the Criminally Insane
Matteawan/Matawan is Lenni Lenape for meshuganuh.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/16/2016 1:21 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
Sorry T, he renounced his Canadian citizenship and he can't "un-renounce" it. Even if you all sign a petition on "we the people", we're not taking him back .

Seriously though, the term is "natural born", not US born. From what I gather, the term was never used again in the constitution, and never legally defined, so it's about time for some resolution on the definition, even if it has to go to the supreme court.
Cruz does have legal smarts, and giving up the CDN citizenship was done to avoid any issues with regard to this campaign. I'm sure he has the "natural born" angle all covered.
Re-listening to last weeks' Takeaway, one important point is Mama Cruz apparently "went Canadian" and renounced her US citizenship prior to birthing the future candidate.
Goshers golly, wouldn't it be just AWFUL if he were eliminated on this minor technicality. Y'know, 'cause he's such a nice guy and all... Again, if the question makes it to SCOTUS, wouldn't be susprised if they declare Cruz prez on the spot, who needs an election - sort of a repeat of 2000 without the embarrassment of hanging chads. Who the **** cares if Cruz renounced his Canada citizenship, if he doesn't meet the criteria for US citizenship, he'll be a man without a country! Wouldn't that be too bad. When Texas secedes they can offer him honorary citizenship, he's qualified, like many Texans, big hat, no cattle.

How about this g1, doesn't Canada have a research station on Antarctica? You could send him there, with Nickleback, they could tour the frozen continent entertaining the penguins & scientists until hell or Texas freezes over. Deal?

Minor wander one more time real quick.

Enzo, I've done Stone Balloon shows, twice in 1992. Good college bar venue for bands on their way up, or down. Stupid multi level floor to make loadin/loadout a major pain, especially if you have a semi trailer full of gear. South Jersey, square miles of blueberries mmmm good! In between the pine barrens.

rjb, Chock's my go to brand. They're coming up with a Hawaiian blend. OMG I'm there, gotta try that out.

Matteawan/Matawan is Lenni Lenape for meshuganuh.
OK then, that explains a lot! Thanks! Glad somebody still speaks Lenni Lenape.

done. for now.
 
big_teee 1/16/2016 1:27 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
he's qualified, like many Texans, big hat, no cattle.
How about this g1, doesn't Canada have a research station on Antarctica? You could send him there, with Nickleback, they could tour the frozen continent entertaining the penguins & scientists until hell or Texas freezes over. Deal?
I love it.
Or, maybe all mouth, no Cattle?
T
 
rjb 1/16/2016 1:44 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
NO COLORS signs are way after my time.
Maybe NJ was ahead of the times.

According to Wikipedia, "colors" have been associated with "outlaw" MCs since the '60s.
That sounds right to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_(motorcycling)
Altamont was 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Free_Concert

Now, "DIRTBAG" is a term I've never seen on a sign outside of NJ.
 
Justin Thomas 1/16/2016 2:37 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post

How about this g1, doesn't Canada have a research station on Antarctica? You could send him there, with Nickleback, they could tour the frozen continent entertaining the penguins & scientists until hell or Texas freezes over. Deal?
.
That's all good til he applies for asylum, gets into the US, and starts playing all his favorite songs by his new favorite band, and we suffer the misery all over again. It's been about ten years, time for everything old to be new again. No, best just let them finish their suicide campaigns and we'll not have to hear much from them again.

Dang, I always thought Nickelback was American, anyway! And to think they could have asked for an apprenticeship with Rush...

Justin
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/16/2016 2:52 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
"DIRTBAG" is a term I've never seen on a sign outside of NJ.
Always thought "dirtbag" was what you changed out in a vacuum cleaner, when it was full.

I guess it's either, depending on whether your ride is Electrolux, or Husqvarna.
 
g1 1/16/2016 4:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Re-listening to last weeks' Takeaway, one important point is Mama Cruz apparently "went Canadian" and renounced her US citizenship prior to birthing the future candidate.
Leo, I've not heard this part before. Do you have any links to this info? If true, that would certainly be a huge factor.
 
Enzo 1/16/2016 5:01 PM
The term colors has been around a long time, but the "no colors" signs were not prevalent in areas I was in the early 1970s.

Stone Balloon was a big dance club then, I know it went through changes. I looked it up a couple years ago, and it still existed, but had evolved into some sort of polite cafe or something, no dance bands.


If there is any REAL question about Cruz eligibility, I want it resolved promptly. I don't want to see it dragged along as a fake issue like the birther thing in the 2008 election and Obama. Cruz makes my skin crawl, but I want to see him lose legitimately, not by innuendo.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/16/2016 5:27 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
Leo, I've not heard this part before. Do you have any links to this info? If true, that would certainly be a huge factor.
I posted the Takeaway link last week, & was surprised to hear a repeat Thursday night on WAMC Albany. I'll rattle thru my back posts. Unfortunately the program does not, far as I know, put it in transcript form, you have to listen to the show, what a PIA.

Meanwhile you can google 'cruz canada born mother' terms.

And I very much agree with you Enzo, I'd like to see this resolved right now, so it doesn't have to get dragged to SCOTUS like the hanging chad fiasco. Because you know what SCOTUS will do.

Patientez g1, I search, I search... though I wish I could find candidate Cruz at Ice Station Zebra.

edit: OK, wrong program but similar, "On The Media" who quoted PolitiFact, who rated Cruz birther Alan Grayson "pants of fire." Not that PolitiFact gets everything right 100% of the time. At least PF says "We’ve looked at this before and the evidence falls heavily against Grayson’s position. The only sliver of uncertainty? There’s no Supreme Court ruling on this question." Certainly worth a read.

PF's article stems from Grayson's appearance on Fox, so you know it's fair & balanced, right? And for the third or fourth time, if it came to a SCOTUS ruling, you know which way the majority would vote whether correct & fair or not. YOU read, YOU decide. Powdered wig & robe optional.

Read ye here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-not-american/

FWIW the article I'd linked to last week was The Takeaway on "A New Generation of Gun Owners", good listen but not the Cruz Birther show.
 
rjb 1/16/2016 5:43 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
rjb, Chock's my go to brand. They're coming up with a Hawaiian blend. OMG I'm there, gotta try that out.
You think it's gonna have Kona beans? I would bet on coconut hair.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/16/2016 7:20 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post


You think it's gonna have Kona beans? I would bet on coconut hair.
Coconut hair's OK, depends on who's wearing it... Other islands turning out coffee too. I've had Maui & Kaui'i. So far I find straight Hawai'ian absurdly strong but it makes a wonderful blend at 10-20% with a good quality ordinary coffee.

FWIW one of the worst cups of coffee I ever had was at a local spot called "Bad Ass Coffee." They specialize in Hawai'ian and have kitschy vibe worse than Gilligans Island, spotty service, inattentive attendants. A friend bought me a cup of their Kawai'i, premium priced. I think dopey "barista" forgot to put any grounds in the machine. Hot dish water, nothing could save it, barely yellow swill, ICK! NOT a good way to represent island coffee. Even Burger King at their worst did better but not by much. I'll throw down for a can of Chock Hawai'i blend soon as it arrives in store.

over again. Now for important questions. What's that atop Donald's head? Coconut hair?
 
g1 1/16/2016 7:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
edit: OK, wrong program but similar, "On The Media" who quoted PolitiFact, who rated Cruz birther Alan Grayson "pants of fire." Not that PolitiFact gets everything right 100% of the time. At least PF says "We’ve looked at this before and the evidence falls heavily against Grayson’s position. The only sliver of uncertainty? There’s no Supreme Court ruling on this question." Certainly worth a read.
...
Read ye here: Grayson wrongly says Cruz not an American | PolitiFact
Yep, that's the best article I was able to find on the issue of Ted's mum. Apparently at the time, to become a Canadian citizen required an oath which included a renunciation of any other citizenship. So that would be where they got the idea she renounced her US one. But at that time in Canada, you needed to live there 5 yrs. before you could become CDN, and they had only been there 4 yrs. when Ted was born. So there doesn't seem to be any evidence that she ever became Canadian, just some hearsay.


Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Cruz makes my skin crawl, but I want to see him lose legitimately, not by innuendo.
I think Cruz may be even more dangerous than Trump.
 
Enzo 1/17/2016 7:46 AM
Yes, because Cruz really wants to be president, Trump just wants the ego stroke. And Cruz has some fairly well defined positions on things, Trump just blathers.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/17/2016 8:21 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Yes, because Cruz really wants to be president, Trump just wants the ego stroke. And Cruz has some fairly well defined positions on things, Trump just blathers.
NYTimes had a good editorial headline last week "Obnoxiousness is the New Charisma." Perfect description of what we got here. Cruz well defined position is he wants to carpet-bomb and/or nuke the mideast & some other places. We just can't let that happen. In the event he (or any of the other hot & empty heads) becomes Prez & orders up a nuke strike, I think you'll see a military coup first. The generals know better. I hope.

These dopes act obnoxious when they get on Fox too, good to see they're equal opportunity nitwits.
 
big_teee 1/17/2016 8:32 AM
I like these campaign slogans?
Dump the Trump, or Take Trump to the Dump?
Kick Trump in the Rump, Tie Trump to the Stump!
Catchy!
T
 
g1 1/17/2016 11:04 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I like these campaign slogans?
There are some great slogans out there. Sanders has a good one.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]37363[/ATTACH]
 
Enzo 1/17/2016 11:54 AM
It has been a very long time since Nixon ran. Richard M. Nixon. Dick Nixon. Fucking despot.

There used to be bumper stickers that read:
Dick Nixon (before he dicks you)

And another home made variety made of two "Nixon" stickers:

Nix on Nixon
 
loudthud 1/17/2016 8:45 PM
I'm watching the Democrat debates just now and Bernie sounds like he is trying to get Trump voters with his talk about the corrupt campaign contributions. He certainly has raised lots of money from small contributions. Some polls show he would do better against Trump than Hillary would.

Wasn't there a hockey game between US and Canada where the loser had to keep Justin Bieber? What ever happened to that?

As long as Iowa is one of the early primary states, we are going to be stuck with ethanol. It's just a bad idea that increases pollution and keeps corn prices high. Trump has said he likes ethanol but Cruz should be against it if the oil companies are in his pocket.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/17/2016 10:14 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
As long as Iowa is one of the early primary states, we are going to be stuck with ethanol. It's just a bad idea that increases pollution and keeps corn prices high. Trump has said he likes ethanol but Cruz should be against it if the oil companies are in his pocket.
I think ethanol's just fine - ice cold for drowning olives in, with just a wee drap of white vermouth.

Bernie vs Trump, geeze a lot of folks are buying into the obnoxious "charisma" of The Donald. Let's see if they come to their senses when they get to the voting booth.

I can't think of a better anti Trump slogan than his name if his family never left the homeland: Dagobert Drumpf. Donald Duck's money grubbing uncle Scrooge McDuck is known in Germany as Onkel Dagobert - folks there would certainly get a chuckle out of the resemblance: our own Donald would be the love child of Donald & Scrooge, miserable bossy personality constantly clamoring for attention and cash. Qwack wack wack wack waaaaack!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37384[/ATTACH]

And The Donald doesn't mind being compared with Hitler. Study up Donald, so you can quack with authority:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37383[/ATTACH]

Nixon campaigned '68 on "Peace With Honor." Neither of which he delivered.

1972: "Don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw: Vote for Nixon in '72"

In the immoral words of Richard Nixon:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37382[/ATTACH]

1964 Goldwater campaign, with "Nuke 'em" General Curtis LeMay for VP. Wanted to make VietNam jungle glow in the dark. Sound familiar? LeMay was the genius behind firebombing of Dresden & other German cities, firebombing of Tokyo too. Had a bit of a history, you could count on him to continue like any serial murderer. Nice guy.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37381[/ATTACH]

Somebody always wants to start a war. As long as somebody else gets to go fight it. Somebody else's kids, they're expendable.
 
big_teee 1/17/2016 11:03 PM
Like I've always said?
I'm not liberal enough to be a Democrat, and I don't make enough money to be a Republican!
There's no one that really represents guys like me.
We've always needed a working mans party.
Until we get some term limits, get rid of citizens united, we are stuck with super pacs and guys like Trump!
T
PS: I like Ethanol, at least it doesn't come from the middle east.
It burns fine in my particular vehicles.
 
Mark Hammer 1/18/2016 8:29 AM
When I was a young'un, during the Johnson administration, and too stupid to realize how far over the line it was, I had a button that said "Where is Lee Harvey Oswald now that we really need him?".

Of course, the urge to come up with an even more insulting (and rhyming) campaign slogan to subvert the candidate you don't like is pretty much everything that's wrong with politics these days, innit? Matters of urgent public policy reduced to nudge-nudge-wink-wink innuendo and high-school shaming.
 
Bill Moore 1/18/2016 8:48 AM
Difference Between Birth Certificate And Certificate Of Live Birth
 
big_teee 1/18/2016 9:31 AM
Mark, why did you wear the Oswald button, or care when you are Canadian?
 
Enzo 1/18/2016 9:52 AM
Whichever kind of birth document you present, it still demonstrated where and when you were born.
 
big_teee 1/18/2016 10:12 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Whichever kind of birth document you present, it still demonstrated where and when you were born.
Exactly!
Which one did Cruz get, He was born in Canada?
 
Bill Moore 1/18/2016 1:38 PM
If you read the link, one is an official document, used for identification, and the other is used to apply for the official document, and is not a form of identification.
As previously stated, Cruz has a birth certificate!
 
big_teee 1/18/2016 2:14 PM
potatoes, tomatoes.
That argument don't hold water!
They all look similar, except, his momma's is hand scribbled.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/def...-long-form.pdf
Exclusive: Birth Certificate for Ted Cruz's Mother - Breitbart
Ted Cruz birth certificate released | Senator born in Canada, U.S. citizen | Dallas Morning News
**BTW
My Wife pulled all of our BCs out of the file cabinet.
Mine, my wifes, Son, and Daughters.
They were all ordered later from the Dept. of Records Little Rock, AR.
They all say Certificate of Live Birth, and all look like the Hawaii Birth form.
 
The Dude 1/18/2016 4:02 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
......Wasn't there a hockey game between US and Canada where the loser had to keep Justin Bieber?.....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37406[/ATTACH]
 
g1 1/18/2016 4:14 PM
Well, Bieber's still in California so guess who won?

"Loser Keeps Bieber": Billboard bets on USA vs. Canada Olympic hockey game - CBS News
 
Enzo 1/18/2016 4:17 PM
Doesn't matter Bill, the question is this: WHERE WERE THEY BORN?

ANY of those forms is evidence of where they were born, regardless of which office issued it or which office stores it.
 
J M Fahey 1/18/2016 5:26 PM
Not getting on the political side of this, because it's none of my business, but the point is that both, as Enzo says, prove who was born, where and when , which is the main point.
Plus extra data, of course.

That one is required when some Administrative acts are carried, is just an Administrative problem.

FWIW the Administration Rules Book or however it's called, may specify a certain paper/form colour ("you brought the pink one which is meant for Social Security, for a Passport you need exactly the same one, but the salmon coloured copy"), that you pay some specific Tax stamp ("for a Passport please pay $63.92 on desk 5 , then come back and show me the stamp") , that you "bring 3 signed photocopies for filing", whatever.

That does not change a bit the validity or truth of the data written on them.

It might not even be a real birth certificate of any kind if impossible to get, but, say, a sworn affidavit signed by two accepted witnesses, etc.
 
The Dude 1/18/2016 6:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
......Not getting on the political side of this, because it's none of my business......
I humbly disagree. You might not get a say in which idiot we elect, but it's the world's business.
 
Steve A. 1/19/2016 7:26 AM
[IMG]http://music-electronics-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37419&amp;d=1453213424[/IMG]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37419[/ATTACH]
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/19/2016 8:18 AM
Liberty University, founded by Jerry Falwell and now run by Jerry Jr, has the prez candidates visit one by one to lecture the students. All the students, at once: morning assembly is mandatory. This is the "institute of higher learning" Jerry Jr made famous last month when he recommended all students get pistol carry licenses and start carrying pistols. Like Jerry Jr does, right in his back pants pocket. Apparently safety isn't an issue, perhaps God will prevent those who do follow Jerry Jr's advice from giving themselves an extra crack in their bums, or worse.

Yesterday was The Donald's turn, Jerry Jr is still abuzz, calls The Donald a good Christian, a True Believer, a model for behavior, all that good stuff. I'm sure it's because they really worship the same god: Mammon. "Oh dear Lord, gimme dat gimme dat gimme dat MONEY!"

"I will protect Christmas!" declared The Donald. Oh, I'm sure, all those glittering gifts, who could object. Visions of sugarplums... Everybody get on your feet and cheer!

What next. Will Bernie vow to protect Hanukkah? Will Ben Carson promise to declare Kwanzaa a national holiday? Which candidate will promote Festivus? That's the candidate that will get my vote.

Must be a hoot to watch this campaign from outside the US border. Those wacky Americans, they're outta their minds. Hope they don't bomb us.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/firs...ersity-speech/
 
Bill Moore 1/19/2016 8:33 AM
I looked at my Birth Certificate, and thats what it says, (same for our kids!) Evidentally state by state varies the terminology!
 
g1 1/19/2016 6:49 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
I humbly disagree. You might not get a say in which idiot we elect, but it's the world's business.
Yep. Every country is affected by the worlds largest economy & biggest superpower.
Even the Brits had a debate in parliament the other day, whether to ban the DT.

Donald Trump Ban | UK Parliament | Trump 2016
 
The Dude 1/19/2016 6:55 PM
Ban him? Hell, they can have him!
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/19/2016 9:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
Brits had a debate in parliament the other day, whether to ban the DT.
Heard a couple comments right from the HOC floor, some were very good & right to the point. One whining spotty herbert rattled on about how Trump will stop his efforts to create resorts in Scotland. I say phooey, Scotland can do without him, build resorts if they want, who needs The (non Mc) Donald for that? If no one else reaches out to build resorts in Scotland, then it doesn't need to be done. Plenty of golf already, who needs another Atlantic City.

Today's bad news, now the Sarahhh the Tundra Tart has raised her annoying screechy voice in support of The Donald. Gawd I could do without ever hearing another peep outta her! Must remember to switch off the radio whilst I catch up on my sleep tonight, the BBC runs her nails-on-a-blackboard racket every 20 minutes, I swear. You could loop that and play it on speakers in the attic, basement & barn to chase mice & rats out. SKREEEEEK SKREEKTEY SCRAWK! GAAAAH! Where's she been the last four years and please send her back there ASAP.
 
The Dude 1/19/2016 10:19 PM
Palin is nothing more than political whackin' fodder for old white republicans who don't have the computer savvy to access porn. Just imagine if her and Trump ever spawned. The kid would come out with a 666 comb over.
 
Enzo 1/19/2016 10:51 PM
I saw the Palin endorsement, and thought, well, what else did we expect? BS artist endorses BS artist.
 
tedmich 1/20/2016 12:15 AM
Palin, a lunk headed castoff from the GOP, is the highest member of the party to endorse Trump. The Donald's check must have cleared!

She's almost incoherent

 
big_teee 1/20/2016 12:20 AM
They got Palin, mainly for Iowa.
Palin helped Joanie Ernst get elected to the senate there.
Trump wants her to do the same for him there at the Iowa Caucuses, against Cruz.
T
 
Enzo 1/20/2016 12:51 AM
That such an intellectual light weight as Palin could help ANYONE get elected, is a sad testament to the voters there.
 
nsubulysses 1/20/2016 7:37 AM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Palin, a lunk headed castoff from the GOP, is the highest member of the party to endorse Trump. The Donald's check must have cleared!

She's almost incoherent

It's like a combination of church and high school pep rally. Pretty nauseating. But with more shit talking which is childish, like daytime TV
 
big_teee 1/20/2016 8:39 AM
Seriously Folks?
Is there anyone on either side you really want to be the POTUS?
I may Write in John Kerry!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/20/2016 9:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Seriously Folks?
Is there anyone on either side you really want to be the POTUS?
I may Write in John Kerry!
T
I was hoping Bernie would get "drafted" 2000 on. Still the most sensible of the bunch.

The only info I'd like from candidates is "Name your vice president and cabinet." Since the VP is only a heartbeat away from being prez, I consider it a very important factor in choosing the prez candidate. Many have shot themselves in the foot with a poor VP choice: McCain tops the list, followed by Gore. Some with rotten VP choices manage to get elected, Bush41 & Bush43. The rest of the cabinet matters too. I couldn't stand to have another Sec'y of State as disastrous as Missus Clinton. Reset button? Can't even spell "reset?" (forehead slap) YIKES! Kerry, like him or not, as SoS has scored some accomplishments steering towards peace. Terry, you have a good point, I could see him as a viable candidate for prez, damn the swift boaters.

Got a restful night's sleep with the radio off, no Palin screech noises for 8 hours. Let's hope that's the end of that.
 
Bill Moore 1/20/2016 10:51 AM
Yeah, Kerry is a really great SOS, and what a negotiator! All you do is give in to everything the other side wants, and you get an agreement, (maybe).
By the way, he served in Vietnam, on our side, (before he joined the other).
 
big_teee 1/20/2016 10:56 AM
They could have done like the George W. team did with North Korea.
Just let them make the bomb.
There was no good solution there, and I think they did the best they could.
I think Kerry would make a fine POTUS.
I don't want any from the running GOP, And the Dems all want my guns.
Was just trying to think of another Alternative.
Bill I guess I could write you in.
At least I know you would let me keep my Browning!
T
 
Mark Hammer 1/20/2016 11:07 AM
But it's an accurate reflection of the very superficial nature of electoral politics in the present day.

We live in a time where the depth of thought is constrained by 140 characters, and anyone who invests more time and effort is considered "wordy" and verbose.

Wouldn't it be great if some fairly small or narrowly circumscribed jurisdiction, like Maine or Rhode Island, instituted some strict electoral changes like hard limits on campaign funding, electronic media advertising, and how the popular vote translated into electoral-college votes? In other words, be a "laboratory" for some things one hoped would change the way elections rolled out and people got elected.
 
Mark Hammer 1/20/2016 11:39 AM
Incidentally, I think the whole "born somewhere else" thing is entirely misconstrued. If I understand it correctly (and please tell me if I don't), the whole point is to ensure that somebody from another nation doesn't just sweep in and become president. You want the leader of the nation to properly reflect the sensibilities and priorities of the nation they represent/lead. Makes perfect sense to me.

Now, quantifying what equates to "properly reflecting the sensibilities and priorities of the nation" is a whole other thing. So, the quick and dirty/easy way to make a distinction is to say that if one is an American citizen and born in the U.S.A. (not somebody who spent their first 50 years elsewhere and only recently became American), you probably grasp and reflect the values of the nation. Fair enough.

The question that needs asking by these nitpicking doofuses is whether somebody who was born elsewhere and relocated to the U.S.A. has any other belief system or set of values other than what one might consider "American". If one moved to the U.S.A. when you were 2, chances are pretty darn good you're American through and through. If you relocated when you were 16, I can see how some would wonder whether you were a dyed in the wool American.

Personally, I think Cruz is a rather poor candidate for the role he aspires to. I think he simply lacks the head for good public policy and either domestic or international leadership. Making a big deal of an irrelevant technicality is just dumb and childish.
 
Bill Moore 1/20/2016 1:26 PM
If I were in the White House, I would work to require that everyone be armed! (except for the conscientious objectors, of course). I wonder if an executive order would be good enough?
Did anyone hear of the lastest Kerry "deal"?
Iran: U.S. Bought Freedom of Citizens with $1.7 Billion Cash Release
Mark, I wish we would have a 2 month campaign season, 1 for the primary, and 1 for the general. Wouldn't have time to spend all that money! (And "working" politicians wouldn't need to spend the time hustling funds)!
 
big_teee 1/20/2016 1:50 PM
The cash release, was part of the Nuclear deal.
It was their money. It was not our money to keep.
Stopping the sanctions, and embargoes they get their money back.
All the negotiations, including the prisoner swaps all ties together.
I think the Nuclear deal was necessary and was the best we were going to get.
Was it perfect?
Deals never are!
T
 
Mark Hammer 1/20/2016 5:00 PM
Interestingly, Bill, we just finished having the longest election campaign in 100 years or so. Different sort of campaign period than yours, since we don't vote for the PM, and there are no costly primaries, and certainly not as long as yours. But MUCH longer than we are used to.

A few interesting observations:

1) The lead changed hands several times.
2) The requirement to have some sort of daily announcement to stay in the news, resulted in people promising all sorts of likely unachievable nonsense...just because there was all that campaign time to fill up. The party that appeared to have a surge near the beginning ended up having what struck me as an incoherent platform, as more and morestuff got tacked on, in the name of "announcements". My gut sense is that, were the campaign period shorter, they might have won.
The incumbents ran out of gas and just appeared to get more desperate as the campaign dragged on (and ironically they were the ones who dictated the timing and length of the campaign in the first place). In the final week, they were running ads that boiled down to: "We're gonna give you a few thousand dollars, and those other guys won't". Seriously. It was likely local Sunday morning cable TV ads; inches away from an infomercial. In the meantime, the winning party started picking up steam, and looking better as the other two major parties started looking either meaner or more incoherent. The duration of the campaign was a HUGE factor in the outcome (a majority that nobody predicted). Whether one likes the outcome or not is a whole other matter, but the duration was a big player.

I think 2 months is about right. Ours went 11 weeks, which is probably about 2-3 weeks too long, and about 6-7 weeks longer than usual.
 
The Dude 1/20/2016 5:23 PM
I was flipping through the channels last night and stumbled upon a replay of Palin's endorsement speech. I literally thought it was an SNL skit for a good while until I realized it was the real blathering idiot and not Tina Fey making fun of her.
 
Justin Thomas 1/20/2016 5:24 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
... The requirement to have some sort of daily announcement to stay in the news, resulted in people promising all sorts of likely unachievable nonsense... incoherent platform, as more and morestuff got tacked on, in the name of "announcements"... incumbents... just appeared to get more desperate as the campaign dragged on (and ironically they were the ones who dictated the timing and length of the campaign in the first place). In the final week, they were running ads that boiled down to: "We're gonna give you a few thousand dollars, and those other guys won't". Seriously.
You seem to have a very good grasp on our Uhmuhrikin system. Feel free to run for office anytime - you could maybe even be President! :O

Kidding aside, very good observation of the promises of unachievable nonsense. How much of what any of our POTUS candidates say is ACTUALLY in their power to do anything about? The honest campaign promise would be "I'll be commander-in-chief, and for everything else, I'll piss and beg and plead with Congress to pass, (which they might if YOU ALL didn't vote for the S.O.S. yet again) and hope the SCOTUS lets it fly. That's all it's really in my power to do." If they'd like to include a blurb about "I'll do my best to not piss off any countries who would like to blow us all up," it would be appreciated, but I understand it's not obligatory.

Okay, that's my contribution to the soon-to-be champion in MEF-thread length history...

Justin
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/20/2016 5:39 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
I was flipping through the channels last night and stumbled upon a replay of Palin's endorsement speech. I literally thought it was an SNL skit for a good while until I realized it was the real blathering idiot and not Tina Fey making fun of her.
Not even Tina Fey can approach the paint-peeling, cattle-worming Saraaaah voice. Todays follies, The Saraaaaaah failed to show up for her morning appointment. Then in the afternoon it turned out her sonny boy was in trouble for punching his wife in her face, then threatening to shoot himself with his AR15 while screaming "DO YOU THINK I'M A PUSSY?" Might have taken Saraaah a few minutes to straighten out over long distance phone. Saraaah immediately swung from minor apology to full attack mode as she does, whining at 130 decibels "You wannah elect a president who will honor the soldiers and first responders!!!" How much you want to bet sonny Palin gets off without even a registered complaint, and Momma will buy him a new gun or three, because he sure proved he knows how to behave with one.
 
Enzo 1/20/2016 5:40 PM
Dude, the beauty of Tina Fey making fun of Palin back then was that she did it by quoting verbatim from Palin speeches. They didn't have to make up blather, they used the real thing.
 
Steve A. 1/20/2016 7:13 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Yeah, Kerry is a really great SOS, and what a negotiator! All you do is give in to everything the other side wants, and you get an agreement, (maybe).
By the way, he served in Vietnam, on our side, (before he joined the other).
Cmon, Bill, do you have to keep quoting the Tea Party line? Besides the US there were 6 other signatories (plus Iran) and I don't recall any of those 6 countries being attacked by their major parties for giving in to Iran.

Kerry a hero in Vietnam? Did you forget how he was attacked during the 2004 election by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, financed by a group of Texas Republicans who later backed the Tea Party.

Do you forget that Iran earlier this month freed a group of sailors from two small American naval vessels that Tehran claimed strayed into Iranian waters? Do you think that those sailors are grumbling about the deal that Kerry signed? I don't remember Iran EVER releasing prisoners so quickly...

Steve Ahola

P.S. As Michael Corleone said in the book The Godfather "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

P.P.S I decided it was time to block posts from you, Bill, as they raise my blood pressure but I was advised...
Sorry Bill Moore is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.
Darn...
 
Steve A. 1/20/2016 7:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Dude, the beauty of Tina Fey making fun of Palin back then was that she did it by quoting verbatim from Palin speeches. They didn't have to make up blather, they used the real thing.
Basically true but Palin never said that she could see Russia from her back porch....
 
The Dude 1/20/2016 7:39 PM
No, but what she said was similar enough. It doesn't change the context of the conversation regarding her "insight into Russian politics".

See video about mid page.
 
Enzo 1/21/2016 12:09 AM
Releasing frozen Iranian funds here is not "giving them money".
 
J M Fahey 1/21/2016 8:32 AM
Agree and add: freezing them is a fine way of booing investors away from American banks.
*Specially* oil rich investors.

Besides, having a few mememory braincells active never hurts, the last time US made that to Iran ,
More than sixty American diplomats and citizens were held hostage for 444 days (November 4, 1979, to January 20, 1981)
.

Iranians are dumb too, they should never have saved one cent on US controlled Banks.

Anyway now they are selling straight to China and eagerly accepting Yuans:

[IMG]https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.01/original/569fad7bc361880c2c8b45c5.jpg[/IMG]

Iran is the new China?

Into this frenzy steps in none other than the aspiring ‘New Master of the Universe’; Chinese President Xi Jinping, currently on a ultra high-profile Middle East tour of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and, of course, Iran.
China has been Iran’s biggest trade partner since 2010, as well as the top buyer of Iranian crude and non-petroleum products (ore, agriculture) even under UN, US and EU sanctions.

Beijing was active in solidifying the Iranian nuclear deal clinched last July – backing the Russians at the table.

And in a graphic demonstration for the entire world to see, Xi is the first head of state to visit Iran since nuclear-related sanctions were lifted this past weekend.
So forget about Iran as a US partner. That won’t happen. In the West, the privileged partner will be the EU, especially concerning investment in energy and in the sprawling, young, educated, virtually “virgin” Iranian market. And then, there’s Eurasia integration.
EU? ... really?
Well:
The fact is Iran is already selling more oil as we speak. Over 1,000 lines of credit have been opened for banks, according to President Hassan Rouhani. Energy-hungry Europeans are predictably going nuts. Even with non-denial denials, the fact is Shell executives, for instance, are already in Tehran, talking about Iran’s “energy potential” and solidifying their positioning as Iran’s “prime partner” in energy. Meanwhile, Iran’s oil tankers are already sailing under Lloyd’s insurance.
IS Europe stabbing US in the back?
Hey .... business is business .... and doubly so if oil is involved.
 
Bill Moore 1/21/2016 8:46 AM
Steve, you never read the Swift Boat book, if you follow the left's line that it is somehow untrue. There is a museum in Ho Chi Min city that has a section credited to Kerry for his anti-war work. (He also had meeting with the enemy, while we were at war)!
He was on a Frigate, (as I was), when he thought it would be easier, and more fun to transfer to Swift Boats. Once he transfered, they decided that their role would be expanded, and do river patrols. That's when he started trying to get transfered. His first "wound" was a small piece of shrapnel that was treated with a band aid! (The wound was also self inflicted, when he fired the M-203 grenade from his M-16 using the rifle's sights). The rest of the crews didn't trust him, and his original commander turned down his requests for purple heart commendations. When the new commander took over, he thought it would be better, (and safer for the rest), to let him get the awards, and transfer out.)
My doc has me on a couple of pills, Steve, so my blood pressure is staying pretty stable now!
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/21/2016 8:52 AM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Iranians are dumb too, they should never have saved one cent on US controlled Banks.
All of 'em dumb? I don't think so, went to college with some, they were no dummies, by far. Very good guys in fact, not troublemakers. I hope they didn't return to the home country & get damaged by the '77 religious fanatic takeover.

And there's the problem, even though relations with Iran had been strained all along, especially after the Shah's takeover early 50's supported by CIA meddling, if you're in international trade & your biggest customer is USA then it makes sense to do biz with US banks. Here again is a case of the innocent being punished for the actions of violent religio-political zealots. Because, that's what works, right? Another reason to beware a religio-political takeover in the USA, the tables would be turned on US fellow USAns, all of us whether we support them or not, it won't be fun.

One factor that hasn't yet been mentioned, opening trade with Iran. If you think there's a heroin problem now, just wait. Similar to the current oil glut, a lot more of that crap will be showing up, and even cheaper due to competition with current suppliers in Afghanistan & other spots, that's my prediction.(put needle-in-the-arm XX over eyes frowny thing here.)

OTOH we'll have a nice selection of Persian carpets, looking forward to it. (Put flying-carpet genie smiley thing here.)
 
J M Fahey 1/21/2016 11:34 AM
Who said *all* ?
We're talking Government level, of course
 
Bill Moore 1/21/2016 11:41 AM
Leo, I heard this morning while driving to work that an Iranian carpet company is already setting up distributers here!
 
Enzo 1/21/2016 11:58 AM
An Iranian sees a market of 300,000,000 plus people now open to him, and he has the brazen gall to actually open a distributorship? Oh the nerve of him. What could be next, American tourists going to Cuba? Oh no, how can this happen?
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/21/2016 1:14 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Leo, I heard this morning while driving to work that an Iranian carpet company is already setting up distributers here!
"Peace" was the name of the company, if I heard correctly. Better shipping carpets than having a war, no? You'll be able to buy all the caviar you can afford too. And a good supply of tasty nourishing good-for-you pistachio nuts, something we "ordinary folks" can afford. Compared to carpets & caviar anyway. California can't grow pistachios fast enough & drought there is putting a crimp on supply.

Those worried Iran oil will drive the price down further, I have it from a professional investor friend, Iran's method for moving oil will be barter rather than dumping it on the market for cash. If they're smart, they'll be bartering for solar & wind power machinery, keep the oil in the ground until the price rises back to normal levels.
 
big_teee 1/21/2016 1:21 PM
On the oil, you're too late.
Iran has 35 million barrels of oil stored off shore in barges.
They will be dumping 500,000 barrels a day on the open market, in a already oil flooded environment?
Oil hit $27 yesterday, it was up around $30 today.
A far cry from the $147 a barrel, the price it was in 2008 the last Year of W.
The cheap oil is killing the stock market, and our(my) IRAs.
T
 
J M Fahey 1/21/2016 4:08 PM
FWIW my Malibu sister-in-law divorced an Iranian carpet distributor to marry my brother 25 years ago and my sister living in Orange County's neighbour just across the street is a full Iranian family, also selling carpets wholesale; my Son visited there last February and crossed the street to play Playstation games with them, (nice very educated and polite kids, by the way) so I could say that Family wise we often brush shoulders with Iranians.

So far, cool and polite people.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/21/2016 8:02 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
The cheap oil is killing the stock market, and our(my) IRAs.
T
Oh boo hoo, your IRA's will spring back. Have you no cash in your retirement portfolio? This is a buying opportunity. Always good to "stock" up on XOM when the price swings low. XOM pays a good dividend too, typically increases each year, not much chance the company will flounder. Then again, I used to say that about Bank of America...

Don't forget the mid September market bloodbath in 2008, the final year of W. Followed by March 8 & 9, 2009, ya gonna blame the new Prez for that? All set up before the Bammer took office. Could have bought DIA (Dow ETF) for under $65, other index based ETF's similarly bottomed out.

Of course it's always nice to see prices high, especially if you're selling. Even nicer to see prices swing low = buy at a discount, unless you have no other choice to sell at that time. Don't panic, just act as if everything's perfectly normal.
 
The Dude 1/21/2016 8:07 PM
Take the 10 bucks you save every time you fill your tank and put it in an account.
 
big_teee 1/21/2016 8:21 PM
No Boo Hoo!
Just stating a fact.
T
 
Enzo 1/21/2016 9:07 PM
Iranian pistachios were always tops in my book. Way back when, before the embassy thing, there was a Detroit area pistachio seller, Germack. They sold "Germack Pride of Iran" branded pistachios. Then the embassy was taken hostage and Iran became a dirty word. overnight, the bags had new labels stuck over the old saying "Germack Pride of Germack" brand.
 
Steve A. 1/23/2016 7:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
The only info I'd like from candidates is "Name your vice president and cabinet." Since the VP is only a heartbeat away from being prez, I consider it a very important factor in choosing the prez candidate. Many have shot themselves in the foot with a poor VP choice: McCain tops the list, followed by Gore.
One of my more paranoid conspiracy theories popped into my head awhile back: shifting into the "lose the battle" mode the GOP decided to let Obama win the 2008 election by nominating Palin.

They knew that the economy was going down the tubes mainly because of their own policies so they figured that they better get out of Dodge before the shooting got bad. Let Obama take all of the flac, recapture the House in 2010 and the Senate and White House in 2012.

When Palin was nominated she had not yet become the popular icon of the far Right- she was an unmitigated liability, guaranteed to kill the ticket. Let McCain take one for the team...

Well, I've heard crazier conspiracy theories.

Steve Ahola
 
Steve A. 1/23/2016 7:22 AM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
No, but what she said was similar enough. It doesn't change the context of the conversation regarding her "insight into Russian politics".
It is a matter of principle- I hold our side to the same standards as I hold the GOP- no falsehoods. Period.
(Stretching the truth and using wiggle words are okay, out and out lies aren't.My post, my rules... )

Steve
 
J M Fahey 1/23/2016 11:01 AM
I said I won't get into a USA electoral argument, but this is VERY funny ... and sadly real :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lCmoaNY45U
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/23/2016 12:37 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
I said I won't get into a USA electoral argument, but this is VERY funny ... and sadly real :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lCmoaNY45U
"The incompetence is . . . beyond." I'm sure President Chump will provide care for Russian veterans. And he'll make . . . Mexico pay for it. After a barrage of "YOU'RE FIRED!" US gummint will have practically no employees left. But those fired will collect their unemployment benefits, right? Plus pensions for those who put in their time (whether they did their jobs or not.) Who gonna pay for that?

Thanks for the link Juan.

Chump, who's he working for, anyway?
 
big_teee 1/23/2016 1:16 PM
Apparently now Frump thinks he's so F-ing Popular?
He could shoot someone and not lose voters. Or maybe just one!
Trump: I could ?shoot somebody and I wouldn?t lose voters? | fox8.com
 
big_teee 1/23/2016 1:26 PM
As far as an alternative?
Michael Bloomber may run for POTUS as an Independent.
What do you think about that? Bad news he would want my guns too.
Michael Bloomberg weighs a third-party presidential run - UPI.com
T
 
g1 1/23/2016 1:34 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
And he'll make . . . Mexico pay for it.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37508[/ATTACH]
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/23/2016 2:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Apparently now Frump thinks he's so F-ing Popular?
He could shoot someone and not lose voters. Or maybe just one!
When's Chump gonna schedule his Beer Hall Putsch? If he's gonna shoot somebody, let him shoot himself. In the aftermath of the original BHP, Adolf threatened to shoot himself, what a pity he didn't carry through. I'll bet our Kandidate doesn't even know how to operate a firearm, or which end the round comes out of. He can hire people to do that...

No need to worry about having your shooters taken away Terry, unless you carry on like this guy, less than 100 yards from my house. They took away his loaded pistols. That's not nice. I'm sure he's a patriotic NRA lifetime member only interested in defending himself and fellow well-organized militia members (AKA gangstas) from a rogue gummint! How nice to know my neighbors are always ready to use firearms to carry on a righteous battle against evildoers. He was often seen stalking the streets dressed in camo, apparently a 'Minuteman' ready for action in an instant.

Police: Guns seized, Wappingers man charged
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/26/2016 6:16 PM
President Trump to skip next FOX debate. "Let's see how much money they make without me!" So sure of himself, why should he waste his time, right? “It’s time that somebody plays grownup,” he said. True 'nuff! It's nice to see Mr. Rump act grown up. Perhaps this will start a trend.

Says "Ted" Cruz, “I promise you, Putin is a lot scarier than Megyn Kelly.”

Where have we heard that before?

Cruz is a lot scarier than Megyn Kelly too. Hell, they ALL are.

FOGSNOOZE also released a statement from a spokeswoman:

“We learned from a secret back channel that the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president — a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings.”

What a strange turn we have come to.
 
J M Fahey 1/26/2016 6:53 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
No need to worry about having your shooters taken away Terry, unless you carry on like this guy, less than 100 yards from my house. They took away his loaded pistols. That's not nice. I'm sure he's a patriotic NRA lifetime member only interested in defending himself and fellow well-organized militia members (AKA gangstas) from a rogue gummint! How nice to know my neighbors are always ready to use firearms to carry on a righteous battle against evildoers. He was often seen stalking the streets dressed in camo, apparently a 'Minuteman' ready for action in an instant.

Police: Guns seized, Wappingers man charged
Do you find *this* guy a typical NRA member?
Or an average Militia member?
[IMG]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/efcd28d18a9a2ad5320702b3f4af1b71a922f3cd/c=4-0-117-150&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2016/01/15/Poughkeepsie/Poughkeepsie/635884695129349612-Savata-M-Monroe.jpg[/IMG]

Guess you have not brushed shoulders with many of them, not even seen them from less than a mile away.

Not being racist or anything but the only way a guy like him can be on Militia held ground is as a moving target.

Not much of an evildoers nightmare either, he was busted during:
A narcotics investigation conducted by two agencies -- the state police Community Narcotics Enforcement Team and the City of Poughkeepsie Police Neighborhood Recovery Unit, along with other state police -- led to authorities using a search warrant in a Wappingers Falls apartment today, Friday.
Now about the camo clothing, yes, why not? , although I find it hard to portrait him as a "vigilante".
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/26/2016 9:08 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Not being racist or anything but the only way a guy like him can be on Militia held ground is as a moving target.
Now, now, Juan. I can only assume the gentleman is a citizen exercising his inalienable constitutional USA rights as clearly defined by the Founding Fathers. Besides, he's only accused. Innocent until proven guilty. You know how that goes.

Keeping an ear open to all news media, an interesting notion came across BBC yesterday. Try this on for size: As the fledgling USA tried to get its new Constitution ratified, came a point when 8 of 13 states had signed on. Nine states were needed for the required majority. The next target state was Virginia, and the Va stage legislature was dragging heels, hard. At that time, there was no national army, the armed forces consisted only of "well trained militia", that familiar phrase. Now on one hand, the Federal gummint needed each state's militia to 1) possibly go back to battling with the British, B) fend off attacks by Natives, aka Indians, and what was on the Virginia legislators' minds III) put down slave revolts. Sooooo...... there's the genesis of the second amendment, allow the people - mostly farmers - to be armed in order to keep slaves in their rightful places, pickin' cotton, whistlin' Dixie & all that. This and other amendments within the first 10, AKA "Bill of Rights" were offered as a sop to state legislatures, to get them to sign on and bind the colonies together as a country. Second amendment written and offered, Va signed up & bingo, there's your country. Can I get a 21-gun salute? Good story, what y'all think?

In todays late breaking news, Obama's coming to take your guns. Oh yeah, heard it all before, but now it's true. Guns, bayonets, armored personnel carriers & other military gear are being recalled from police & sheriffs departments, you can imagine what they think of that! Has the wave of militarizing police departments ended? This gummint we got, probably arming some while stripping others of their war surplus toys. Even a set of chrome plated bayonets some police department got for free, they say they only use them for marching in parades. WTF, you need bayonets chrome plated ones at that? "Oh they come in handy if you have to cut someone out of their seat belt in an accident." Riiigggghhhhtttt..... Then budget some money coppers, make the taxpayers buy you replacement chrome bayonets. (SCHMACK! - loud forehead slap) Boys don't wanna lose their "free" big boy toys.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/us...equipment.html
 
rjb 1/26/2016 10:09 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
In todays late breaking news, Obama's coming to take your guns.
OK, as long as he doesn't take my snow shovel.
That's a lousy lead-in, but I just had to share this news of the bizarre.
Newark man shot during dispute over shovel | NJ.com
Shooting sparked by dispute over snow shovel leads to arrest of Newark woman | NJ.com

/
 
Enzo 1/27/2016 12:27 AM
Oh the police getting military equipment is news around here. Once they have it, the local sheriffs all of a sudden can't do without. We have a small town of about 1400 people saying they can't possibly feel safe without the ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIER they got a while back.

bayonettes to cut people out of stuck seat belts? Oh please. And I need a gear puller in case I need to remove a tube from its socket.

I note that none of those things Obama is "taking" are coming from citizens. So let me see if I understand the conspiracy correctly. The government wants to take away all the guns from the citizens, so only the government will have the guns, and they intend to do this by disarming the local government?
 
J M Fahey 1/27/2016 9:16 AM
We have a small town of about 1400 people saying they can't possibly feel safe without the ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIER they got a while back.
Safe from WHAT?????
An APC is needed only in a full War situation and that, if there's enemy troops nearby , not much use in Lansing or anywhere in USA if there's a war raging in, say, Europe/Africa/Asia.

Unless ... they have predicted and are gearing up for a CIVIL War , in which case "enemy troops" would be US Citizens by definition, I very much doubt Canada or Mexico would or even could invade USA, being the only nearby Countries.

All other potential enemies are separated by nothing less than Oceans.

Forget Cuba: they can't take, even less hold Florida, and those APC are not being deployed there ... or in Alaska, the other quasi frontier with at least in theory a potential danger.

So I guess Washington is looking *inside* for enemies, real or invented.

IF so, stupid decision, it's always cheaper on all levels to avoid grudges growing too much and defuse problems, even by making some concessions, than take the Military option.

Look what Assad turned once beautiful Syria into, by not skilfully handling his political enemies:
[IMG]http://www.thewhy.com/wp-content/uploads/008-Aleppo.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://fronterasblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/homs.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/7/21/1405947615368/01b97f74-ac11-45b0-9cde-4a667192f5bd-2060x1236.jpeg[/IMG]

while Saddam kept his Country working fine, until US invasion that is.
 
big_teee 1/27/2016 9:25 AM
Trump vs Fox?
I don't know which one I'm booing or rooting for!
I think it's funny, no republican ever dares take on the Roger, and his Fox News.
Fox doesn't know how to act!
T
 
Bill Moore 1/27/2016 10:52 AM
The resistance wasn't about slavery, but liberty. Seems New York was next, (after Virginia) to ratify.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin...ing_Convention
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/27/2016 10:53 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Trump vs Fox? I don't know which one I'm booing or rooting forI think it's funny, no republican ever dares take on the Roger, and his Fox News. Fox doesn't know how to act! T
And who is FOX chief Roger Ailes's puppeteer? "Prince" Roopert Murdoch, that's who. Got a feeling this is all a setup much like "professional" wrestling. These billionaires are all good pals behind the scenes, and the "drama" is set up to attract our attention. Hell, Roopert runs the NY Post at a loss, just so he can distribute his propaganda, can do the same for FOGSNOOZE should their income ever falter. Murdoch bought Wall St. Journal, turned that into a right wing rag, dressed up with "living" sections having nothing to do with stock/bond market, to try & compete with NY Times. Roopert wants to rule the world, has for a long time, can't get elected US Prez because he's Australian born, no faking that. So Donald is his proxy far as I'm concerned.

If The Donald's in a snit, that's because it's in the script.

Perfect for him, a naturally pugnacious pusillanimous punk. Afraid of Megyn Kelly, feh!

Perhaps the candidate took on some of these qualities at an early age:

gained mainstream popularity and became one of the biggest stars of this period, gaining media attention for his outrageous character, which was described as flamboyant and charismatic.

Separated at birth? We report, you decide...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37556[/ATTACH]
 
big_teee 1/27/2016 11:02 AM
The Donald is not following a script.
If he is, it is in his own hand writing.
I just saw a survey that asked would if the Teflon Don boycotted the debate would it help or hurt him.
The survey so far says it will help him.
The voters that lean to the Don want someone that is defiant, & this just falls into that theme.
Roger may not be the king, but he is the leader when it comes to FogSnooooze.
YMMV,
 
The Dude 1/29/2016 5:00 PM
So, I watched a bit of 3 different news channels last night. Almost exclusively Trump coverage, which by the way I'm plenty sick of. This is why I was switching channels- trying to find some non-Don news. At several points in each program, they complained about how much free coverage Trump is getting, how it's unfair to the other candidates, how he can call in to any news program and they'll put him on the air, how they were sick of it, etc., etc....... all while simultaneously talking about him non stop. Anybody else see the irony and stupidity of this? They all need to just stop giving this a-hole a free platform for his BS. If the media wants him to go away, then they should stop talking about him for f&*$ sake.
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/29/2016 5:49 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Roger may not be the king, but he is the leader when it comes to FogSnooooze.
Roger may be "king" at fogsnooze, but still has to answer to Roopert. Maybe even take off his crown, and bow & scrape. You gotta serve somebody. Like Beelzebub serves Satan.

Either, behind the scenes they're in cahoots. Or, Dagobert Drumpf will shell out a small portion of his fortune & start up Trump Channel to compete with Fogsnooze.
 
The Dude 1/29/2016 6:58 PM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37598[/ATTACH]
 
big_teee 1/29/2016 8:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Roger may be "king" at fogsnooze, but still has to answer to Roopert. Maybe even take off his crown, and bow & scrape. You gotta serve somebody. Like Beelzebub serves Satan.

Either, behind the scenes they're in cahoots. Or, Dagobert Drumpf will shell out a small portion of his fortune & start up Trump Channel to compete with Fogsnooze.
I don't watch Foxxx.
I saw the Don on CNN, and I think he was also on MSNBC.
I never flipped to fox, I didn't want them to count me as a viewer.
On Dish Fox is 205, their so called finance channel is 206.
206 finance is more right wing and does more bashing than the regular fox channel.
I flip by them, but never stay long.
T
 
SpareRibs 1/29/2016 11:28 PM
Hello,
I would like to approach this from a different point of view. Does anyone actually think that Donald Trump wants to be president. Think about how easy it would be for Hillary to beat him. So far he is beating Baby Bush, Marco Rubio, That Canadian Preacher, And Ben Carson, clearing
the field so there can be a real election.
This is being orchestrated big time.
 
Enzo 1/29/2016 11:39 PM
orchestrated by whom and to what end? You really think someone is promoting him so Hillary wins the election? That is way too over the top for me.


I think he is a huge egocentric narcissist. And I think he says to himself, sure, I can be president, it will be huge. he's an attention whore, and what better place to revel in it than the White House?
 
J M Fahey 1/30/2016 5:22 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
orchestrated by whom and to what end? You really think someone is promoting him so Hillary wins the election? That is way too over the top for me.
Oh, I *can* imagine a scenario for that, no need for conspiracy of any kind, simple Politics, just pulling the strings so the sheep flock (voters) go the way the shepherd wants.

You want them go to the right? ... easy, just pop a firecracker on the left (absolutely harmless to sheep, of course) and the scared flock *rushes* to the right, and viceversa.

I *see* (not *guess*) that powers-that-rule have somehow decided that women presidents may be the tickets for whatever they try to accomplish, so they pulled the proper strings (press/lobbies/financial backing/political arrangements/whatever) and suddenly women presidents popped all over the place.
Angela Merkel in Germany:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Angela_Merkel_(2008).jpg/220px-Angela_Merkel_(2008).jpg[/IMG]

Michelle Bachelet in Chile:
[IMG]http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/biografia/b/fotos/bachelet.jpg[/IMG]

our own Cristina Fernandez Kirchner in Argentina:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Cristinakirchnermensaje2010.jpg/270px-Cristinakirchnermensaje2010.jpg[/IMG]

Brazil's Dilma Rousseff:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Dilma_Rousseff_-_foto_oficial_2011-01-09.jpg/200px-Dilma_Rousseff_-_foto_oficial_2011-01-09.jpg[/IMG]

so ... why not USA running:
[IMG]http://a4.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwMDU4NTc3NDIy.jpg[/IMG]

after all USA was happy (at least Reagan and the GOP were) with:
[IMG]https://www.thatchercentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/6043-margaret-thatcher.jpg[/IMG]

It simply can't be that so many different places, all over the World, decided on such a choice, *against* their tradition, all at once within a few years which compared to History scale amounts to simultaneous

Fracking impossible if you think a little about it.

So I think simply they decided that good old USA now should have also a Woman President.

After all, USA already did the unthinkable, anything else is peanuts:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/451007105391022080/iu1f7brY_400x400.png[/IMG]

Big Problem: they never did before and probably most people would not vote a woman, even if she's the best for the job, simply based on a gut feeling .

Which is not backwards at all, legitimate concerns are:
* we *are* in trouble (on various areas)
* will she be able to solve them?
even worse:
* will she have the balls needed for that? ... won't a man ... any man be preferrable?

so she is matched to an obnoxious - ridicule - incompetent competitor ... people will rush to vote her, and be relieved to see she "wins" and will give her the benefit of the doubt whenever she takes a relatively impopular decision, shuddering about "what would he have made in this case" .

Just thinking aloud, of course.
 
SpareRibs 1/30/2016 6:10 AM
[QUOTE=Enzo;410215]orchestrated by whom and to what end? You really think someone is promoting him so Hillary wins the election? That is way too over the top for me.

Hello,
Both family's have been close personal friends for years. All it would take is a phone call to request a personal favor. Maybe it SEEMS over the top. However I guess I will just have go on your premise that all politics are on the up and up, therefore no one would do anything to sway something like an election in their favor. OH wait the Bush election settled by the Supreme Court!!!!
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/30/2016 7:12 AM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
Hello,
I would like to approach this from a different point of view. Does anyone actually think that Donald Trump wants to be president.
Considering the level of control he exerts over his empire, such as it is, I'm certain President Trump will be in a VERY cantankerous mood the moment he takes office and finds the true limits of his power as POTUS. And he won't be able to do a dam' thing about it - high pressure steam will be blowing out his ears for the next four years or until he quits in frustration. Which brings up the question: who will VP under the Grand and Mighty Oz? That's the person to watch - as in all prez elections - enough smart voters saw the obvious and avoided voting the ticket that had the brain-damaged berserko tundra tart as veepee.

Conspiracy? Billionaires run the show: deals are cut on the golf course, amidst a lot of laughter.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37600[/ATTACH]
 
g1 1/30/2016 11:37 AM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37598[/ATTACH]
Actually, it's a wall not a fence. But we're not going to make you pay for it. Sorry eh?

 
big_teee 1/30/2016 12:58 PM
g1, we plan on returning Cruz, before you get the wall finished!
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/30/2016 1:48 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
g1, we plan on returning Cruz, before you get the wall finished!
Wall finished or not. Even if we have to send him by catapult. Suuuurely you can find something for a person with such a mean temper to do! Maybe be a goon on some D-league hockey team, Cruz the pugnacious poltroon just wants to Hit Somebody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUb0C0iI_GE
 
Steve A. 1/30/2016 1:55 PM
This may sound crazy but I believe that California Gov. Jerry Brown would be a great President. Yes, Gov. Moonbeam, who ran for Pres decades ago.
First as Mayor of Oakland and then as Governor of California he has proved himself to be fiscally conservative which pisses the hell out of many liberals.
But he's in his 70s and has no desire to run. Perhaps we could convince him to be Bernie's VP on an Independent ticket (we could call the party the New Democratic Party.)

Steve
 
Enzo 1/30/2016 2:38 PM
However I guess I will just have go on your premise that all politics are on the up and up
Now silly. When we are faced with a political situation, there are more choices than "huge conspiracy involving almost everyone", and "politics is totally on the up and up". I think there are always back room shenanigans, but I don't think that means every over the top conspiracy theory is true.
 
big_teee 1/30/2016 2:45 PM
No Thank You Steve!
One of the only things Jerry did that I approved of, was Linda Ronstadt!
T
 
dmartn149 1/30/2016 2:50 PM
It's been my suspicion since Trump began his campaign that he was only running to insure a Democratic victory in the general election.
 
Enzo 1/30/2016 3:08 PM
And why would he want a democrat in the white house? So he could pay more taxes? So he might find more regulation of his businesses? Or how much would we have to bribe a billionaire to get him to run against his own interests to get a democrat elected?
 
big_teee 1/30/2016 3:28 PM
I agree with Enzo.
Trumps proposed tax plan, has breaks for the rich, and the poor and working man pays more.
Trump may not be a real true red republican, when it comes to Roe V Wade, Gay marriage, etc.
When it comes to money issues he will be a true GOP, and that includes him being against raising the minimum wage.
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/30/2016 3:43 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
And why would he want a democrat in the white house? So he could pay more taxes? So he might find more regulation of his businesses? Or how much would we have to bribe a billionaire to get him to run against his own interests to get a democrat elected?
In agreement with you Enzo:

Along the lines of the last two prez elections, guarantee a democrat win by putting up republican kamikaze kandidates. It's nice to have an actual "enemy in the Oval Office" instead of having to invent a straw man to rant & rave about. Or straw man stories, first & foremost: that Obama, he gonna take our guns! Yeh, how many guns have been taken? Zero. Compared to guns that have been sold to those who fear their guns will be taken by the gummint: over 150 million. I'd call that a guaranteed multi-hundred-billion $$$$$$$$$$ payday for gun & ammo manufacturers and dealers, all created by purely paranoid ranting.
 
dmartn149 1/30/2016 10:34 PM
And why would he want a democrat in the white house? So he could pay more taxes? So he might find more regulation of his businesses? Or how much would we have to bribe a billionaire to get him to run against his own interests to get a democrat elected?
Well, I don't know, but he's been rich his whole life and only recently became a Republican.
 
big_teee 1/30/2016 11:19 PM
The Don is going to fight to remove gun free zones.
Obama isn't going to take our guns, but Hillary wants to.
The part that scares me about a GOP prez, is appointees to the supreme court.
I still contend that I'm not liberal enough to be a democrat, and not rich enough to be a republican.
If we get Hillary for prez, maybe we can keep a GOP House to keep her in check.
I don't want all three branches to be either all Blue, or All Red.
T
 
SpareRibs 1/31/2016 4:28 AM
Hello, Did you not see the speech when he said, He gives money to both parties and gets along with everybody.
 
Justin Thomas 1/31/2016 5:27 AM
Off Topic...
I just realized we have surpassed the Tiny Terror thread in length. And there's still 10 months left before the election... What say ye, do we go for the longest thread in MEF history?

Personally, dump the Chrump. And all of the candidates are kinda scary. In their own way. So, I'm on the "Vote Canada" wagon that g1 posted.

Justin
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/31/2016 9:00 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Obama isn't going to take our guns, but Hillary wants to.
After a lifetime of nonaccomplishment, aside from warming her chair as Senator and setting a record for travel & photo ops as Sec'o'State, you're telling me Hillary is threatening to actually DO SOMETHING? HA! AS IF! Even if she had the will to do that, how would she go about it? She'll get no cooperation from congress, and I doubt any gummint agency would accept a Presidential Order.

I can see a President Hillary stymied from doing anything by a republican congress. All she could do fly around in AF1, smiling & having her pic taken here & there around the world, maybe hand out a reset button or two.

If Hillary's going to do anything outside the Oval Office, she better take up golf. Maybe she could eventually get the ball in the hole. That would be an accomplishment.

I predict ex-candidate Hillary will spend her 2017-on retirement years making cookies with her neighbor Martha Stewart. Maybe she could get some investment advice... Cookies, that would be an accomplishment.

Don't worry Terry, and everyone else. Your guns are safe.
 
big_teee 1/31/2016 10:00 AM
Leo, You're dreaming if you think she will slide into retirement.
I don't know who I'm voting for yet, but I still think she will be your next POTUS.
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/31/2016 10:12 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Leo, You're dreaming if you think she will slide into retirement.
Wishful thinking. Hillary, Martha, cookies!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37609[/ATTACH]
 
Enzo 1/31/2016 11:55 AM
I am perfectly willing to let the primary season wind down the road a while before I start making any predictions.

I am more willing to listen to anti-Hillary arguments (or anti anyone else for that matter) when they are not couched in total negativity. Then again if the purpose is to vent rather than convince, then carry on.

My own philosophy is that the sins of one do not diminish the sins of another. (Used to be the "Clinton defense". Whenever we complained about W, someone would counter, "Oh yeah, well Bill Clinton did this...", as if that exonerated Bush.) But I will suspend my rule for the moment. If we elect Hillary, consider she could do what W did, go on vacation more than most, and start two senseless wars that are still killing our young men. I'd find sitting on a couch preferable.
 
big_teee 1/31/2016 11:59 AM
I agree I went out on a limb with my prediction.
I have my reasons, time will tell.
Sin is a theological, mythical, imaginative word, and IMO means nothing.
However if Laws are broken, that is another matter.
T
 
Enzo 1/31/2016 12:20 PM
Come on T, no need to get pedantic. Sin meaning: misdeeds, poor choices, bad decisions, derelictions of duty, negatives on the chart, lacks of discretions, transgressions, any other offense to sensibilities. Not broken laws, more like broken promises. Nothing to do with religion.

In other words, if Obama starts an unnecessary new war, I can't defend him by claiming, "Well George Bush did it too."

"Enzo, stop hitting your sister." "But MOM, Johnny hits HIS sister."
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/31/2016 12:32 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I agree I went out on a limb with my prediction.
I have my reasons, time will tell.
No worries!

Sin is a theological, mythical, imaginative word, and IMO means nothing.
However if Laws are broken, that is another matter.
T
Our candidate with the funny haircut and awesome HUUUGE financial empire has boasted of his "conquests" aka sexual adventures with married women. (Helluva way for a "proud Christian" to act.) You may or may not consider these "sins", but such activity can sometimes lead to unexpected damage or demise to the perpetrator. Offended husbands sometimes have a bad reaction to some jerkimo swiving their wives. No boastful attitude nor pile of money would save him from a case of acute lead poisoning, sudden extreme ventilation. Just sayin...
 
big_teee 1/31/2016 12:47 PM
I knew I could pull you guys chain!
T,
 
Leo_Gnardo 1/31/2016 1:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I knew I could pull you guys chain!
Another theological mythical word IMO is Guilt.
Sin, Guilt, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Gnome, Leprechaun, unicorn, etc?
All in the same realm and ballpark.
They are all made up non tangibles.
You can't use the first two I listed, without going biblical.
The Key words here, are IMO!
T,
All well & good. Terry are you a member of the Ayn Rand Society too? SpareRibs is takin' his time coming up with an answer - so which congressmen & Kaptains of Industry are in the club? Where's their info page. Where can we sign up?
 
eschertron 1/31/2016 1:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
This may sound crazy but I believe that California Gov. Jerry Brown would be a great President. Yes, Gov. Moonbeam, who ran for Pres decades ago.
First as Mayor of Oakland and then as Governor of California he has proved himself to be fiscally conservative which pisses the hell out of many liberals.
But he's in his 70s and has no desire to run. Perhaps we could convince him to be Bernie's VP on an Independent ticket (we could call the party the New Democratic Party.)

Steve
Cue up the dead kennedys:

edit: proper video formatting
 
big_teee 1/31/2016 2:41 PM
No, not a member of anything much anymore.
I'm sometimes considered a member in good standing of the MEF!
However today, after posting on this thread, that might be debatable.
I like to think I'm a free thinker, and go accordingly.
As a rule, I'm not normally known as a big follower of much of anything!
I tried to teach my two kids to think for themselves, and not just go along with the norm, or the crowd!
T
 
SpareRibs 1/31/2016 3:47 PM
Hello,
The Iowa caucus is not even binding and amounts to nothing. It is actually a popularity contest. The potential voters wandering around shopping for which candidate has the best corn dogs, what kind of mustard is available to dip them in, brown or Grey Pupon. Who can do the best Hog Yodel. Who will support the corn subsidies, so corn can be added to everything. Who supports Ethanol to mix in gasoline.
Cruz and Rubio have added another aspect to all of that. Who can come closest in religious beliefs, and identifying with the poverty they were also born into. Cruz, and Rubio's parents both came to this country from Cuba and while living in a chicken coop they worked hard just so they would be able to send their children to college.
All of that fails to mention Papa Cruz had another family in Texas, before leaving them and meeting up with Cruz's mama, having yet again more children, before abandoning them and running off for another binge.
Where at some point he found Jesus, That is the avenue for most substance abusers.
 
SpareRibs 1/31/2016 5:44 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
All well & good. Terry are you a member of the Ayn Rand Society too? SpareRibs is takin' his time coming up with an answer - so which congressmen & Kaptains of Industry are in the club? Where's their info page. Where can we sign up?
Hello,
I posted information on the original thread. I don't know how to post links however, just Google ( Congressmen who are members of the Ayn Rand Institute).
That will link you to a lot more information than I can provide here.
 
Enzo 2/1/2016 8:08 AM
Posting links is simple.

Go find the web page you want to link in another window, then sweep the cursor across the URL up in the address line to highlight it, then right click and COPY. Now come back to this posting box, and right click and PASTE. There you go., like this:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kaelintully/...ten#.fgGxqLroJ
 
nsubulysses 2/1/2016 11:29 AM
I like the one in the glove compartment.

Thanks for posting
 
J M Fahey 2/2/2016 3:16 AM
Do you trust voter decisions?

Answer after watching this:


OF COURSE, he made this as a joke, yet results are somewhat worrying.
 
The Dude 2/2/2016 3:24 AM
He was one of the Marx brothers, right?
 
J M Fahey 2/2/2016 8:50 AM
Even knowing the Marx Brothers (BIG fan here ) , that is above average.

That said, I'm not hard on "the People" , people is people anywhere, all over the World, and they are what they are.

When Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia in '68 , to crush the hippyish innocent "Praga spring" , a very mild independence experiment, common people in Russia applauded the Government decision of invading "because there is a lot of Nazis down there" , not having a clue as to where Czechoslovakia was on a map ... not different to Americans believing "communist VietNam means all of Asia will become so" or "Saddam is responsible for September 11" or Germans 1939 believing Poland invaded Germany".

Oh well, how can People know what's going on?

What pisses me big time is mercenary Press selling to the highest bidder , creating and spreading BS all over the place.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 9:13 AM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
What pisses me big time is mercenary Press selling to the highest bidder , creating and spreading BS all over the place.
True 'nuff. Even NY Times has now given their editorial support to Candidate Hillary, citing her "long list of accomplishments." No susprize here, NYT crowned Hill as next prez from the moment she thought about running, and rarely mentions other Dem candidates.

So, can anybody tell me what "accomplishments" they mean? Aside from warming her chair as Senator, I can't find any there. Did she ORIGINATE any important legislation? I'm aware of only one bill, a "keep the kids safe from broadcast/internet bad stuff" that would have been popular in the early 90's times of Tipper Gore and the PMRC. Then as Secretary of State, what, a reset button? Endless travel, photo ops & not much else. A campaign of "we should have a woman president, and it's my turn." Not impressed with self-appointed self-anointed candidates; in this aspect she is Trump's equal.

Rant over. For now.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 9:26 AM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Do you trust voter decisions? Answer after watching this: OF COURSE, he made this as a joke, yet results are somewhat worrying.
I like the bicycle guy who didn't sign, said "I don't like this." Of course the video was edited; I wonder if anyone told the fake canvasser "Karl Marx has been dead for 175 years, and you are full of shit." That would have been good.

Another wannabee James O'Keefe, a schnook who should meet a bad end.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37636[/ATTACH]
 
Bill Moore 2/2/2016 10:16 AM
What's wrong with pointing out ignorance? Like the video asking Democrats to name Hillary's accomplishments, too funny!
Our kids are no longer taught the things that they should know, as my generation was. Yes it is too bad!
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 10:34 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
What's wrong with pointing out ignorance? Like the video asking Democrats to name Hillary's accomplishments, too funny!
Our kids are no longer taught the things that they should know, as my generation was. Yes it is too bad!
Haven't seen that video, would be good for a laugh, since there aren't any HRC accomplishments. Got a link?

Can't say that I can recognize anything much in the way of accomplishments for Cruz or Rubio either, and Trump's only accomplishment is constantly bamboozling his business associates; if he had simply taken the money Daddy Trump gave him & invested in S&P 500 companies, he'd be vastly richer than he is now. With all that real estate biz he's only been undermining himself. Now that's an accomplishment, of sorts.

Even the adults of today don't get much points for smarts: nobody recognized Karl Marx, and some signed the petition although clearly informed that Hillary's purported advisor is a communist (the inventor for petes' sakes) besides no petition nor vote is needed for an advisor. Are they not listening, or dumb as a box of rocks?

Nice shirt award for the canvasser. Glinty gold, approved by Hillary's Wall Street friends.
 
big_teee 2/2/2016 11:31 AM
The democratic caucus came down to six coin flips.
They are calling it coingate.
They had six coin flips, and HRC won them all.
Bill must have furnished the coins!
Critics cry foul over ?Coingate?: Hillary Clinton had 1.6% chance of winning 6 coin tosses that made her ?winner? in Iowa - Salon.com
T
 
g1 2/2/2016 11:45 AM
Hey! I have one of those coins, "heads I win", "tails you lose". Says right on it, who can argue with that?
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 11:52 AM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
Hey! I have one of those coins, "heads I win", "tails you lose". Says right on it, who can argue with that?
Cool, is that a Loony, or a double Loony?

6 in a row, there's only 1 chance in 64 of that. I s'pose The Hillary would have been approved as one of Napoleon's generals. In today's world, luck only gets you so far.
 
J M Fahey 2/2/2016 12:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
So, can anybody tell me what "accomplishments" they mean?
Oh, I can mention a unique one
She had the pleasure of shaking *my* hand, both smiling and terrified I might pull a gun or knife, at the corner of my house, not 50 yards from here.
That was in 1997.

Funny thing she was surrounded by a swarm of those ridiculous Secret Service agents, in full regalia: black suits, dark glasses and the ridiculous spiral coil plastic tube earphone in the left ear, plus right hand close to the chest, to quickly pull the piece held in a shoulder holster if needed.

Most ridiculous of it all: since they were "travelling to South America" all SS guys were hand picked Mexicans, probably selected to "blend in".
But they stood out like pink fluo dressed Orthodox Jews because Buenos Aires is an European Immigration city so any Caucasian guys, from Finland to Greece would have been not unusual, while these hawk nosed Aztec faces were the white flies.

Oh well, for her safety I *hope* there were other agents protecting her, clad as casual tourists and such.
 
SpareRibs 2/2/2016 1:01 PM
[url]http://music-electronics-forum.com/newreply.php?p=410705&noquote=1[/url]
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 1:34 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Oh, I can mention a unique one
She had the pleasure of shaking *my* hand, both smiling and terrified I might pull a gun or knife, at the corner of my house, not 50 yards from here. That was in 1997.
Should'a got her email address. Send some hugger-mugger intel. "Your cookies are burning!"
 
Bill Moore 2/2/2016 4:56 PM
Not the one I wanted, but same result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE4XZqCNgEE
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 5:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Not the one I wanted, but same result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE4XZqCNgEE
Oh I know, I know! Hillary bought a house in Westchester so she could run as a carpetbagger for Senator from New York! And those goofy NY voters, they bought into it so she got elected Senator. Now there's an accomplishment!

Honestly, if she had run for Senator from Arkansas, that would have been 100% all right with me, win or lose. But she would have had to wait until 2002, there was no Senatorial election in Arkansas in 2000. Maybe she figured those Arkansawan? Arkansasan? well, those Arkie voters wouldn't have her but she could snow the NY voters into accepting a carpetbagger. After all they voted Massachusetts' Bobby Kennedy into the Senate in 1964. (I was 11 years old, living in NJ, and I thought that election stunk somehow. But then again everything stinks in NJ, even if you're looking outside the state.) And she turned out right. Aside from that, no accomplishments. And I hear her voice on ads, every day, honking about her accomplishments. I dare her to enumerate them! Every detail Missus Clinton, should take you . . . . less than 5 seconds.
 
big_teee 2/2/2016 5:36 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Oh I know, I know! Hillary bought a house in Westchester so she could run as a carpetbagger for Senator from New York! And those goofy NY voters, they bought into it so she got elected Senator. Now there's an accomplishment!

Honestly, if she had run for Senator from Arkansas, that would have been 100% all right with me, win or lose. But she would have had to wait until 2002, there was no Senatorial election in Arkansas in 2000. Maybe she figured those Arkansawan? Arkansasan? well, those Arkie voters wouldn't have her but she could snow the NY voters into accepting a carpetbagger. After all they voted Massachusetts' Bobby Kennedy into the Senate in 1964. (I was 11 years old, living in NJ, and I thought that election stunk somehow. But then again everything stinks in NJ, even if you're looking outside the state.) And she turned out right. Aside from that, no accomplishments. And I hear her voice on ads, every day, honking about her accomplishments. I dare her to enumerate them! Every detail Missus Clinton, should take you . . . . less than 5 seconds.
Why would she run for the Arkansas senate?
She's not from Arkansas.
The word you're looking for, was Arkansan.
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 7:00 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Why would she run for the Arkansas senate?
She's not from Arkansas.
The word you're looking for, was Arkansan.
T
US Senator representing Arkansas. And yes Hillary was born in what, Chicago & grew up near there. As many people do, moved around, college & whatnot, ended up in Arkansas 1975, married Bill, stayed there & even though U.S. First Lady 1993-2001 maintained an Arkansas domicile until her last minute "move to Westchester." So, far as I'm concerned she's a 25-year Arkansan at the time of her run for Senate, and made the NY move for 2 reasons: to represent a state more important than Arkansas, and to not have to put off a Senatorial run for 2 years to run in what was in her opinion, a second rate state, also a state where she might not garner the necessary votes.

The time value of her run was that she was in the news a lot - free coverage! - as First Lady. And got lots of sympathy after Bill's shenanigans were revealed. Had she waited 2 years to run for Senator representing Arkansas, not so certain she could rev up enough attention 2 years out of the limelight. Perhaps there were other things that attracted her to Westchester NY. I can't imagine what they might be. In a hurry to pay outrageous real estate taxes?

If I was to run for Senate or HofR, doubt that NJ would accept me though I was born & grew up there. 40+ years in NY makes me a New Yorker. But I s'pose I could move to another state, if my heart was set on it & I thought it would be an advantage, meet minimum residency requirements and run for national office representing state X. IMHO that would make me a carpetbagger. Legal, above board & all that, but somehow . . . not right.

Thanks for supplying the right word, my favorite Arkansan Terry! (Before you the holder of that prize was Paul Klipsch.)
 
J M Fahey 2/2/2016 7:55 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Should'a got her email address. Send some hugger-mugger intel. "Your cookies are burning!"
Rather than chatting through the Net, should have invited her to see my butterfly collection and share a bottle of Champagne in my terrace room, she looked as if she'd accept in a hurry, had that "hungry at home" look if you know what I mean .
And 18 years ago she was still "edible" if you are into mature Ladies.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/2/2016 8:27 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Rather than chatting through the Net, should have invited her to see my butterfly collection and share a bottle of Champagne in my terrace room, she looked as if she'd accept in a hurry, had that "hungry at home" look if you know what I mean .
And 18 years ago she was still "edible" if you are into mature Ladies.
Oh my what a Lothario. You should'a charmed her into staying in Buenos Aires. Now we're all a-shakin' in our shoes worried that she'll become the USA's own Eva Peron.

I don't blame you for being intimidated by all those stone faced Aztec Secret Circus dudes. They were probably itchin' to check out BA's fine strip clubs & cat houses like good Secret Circus men do. There's important things going on there, y'know? Gotta investigate...

Drat that's the way it goes with love, innit?

And to think, you could 'a changed the course of history.
 
tedmich 2/3/2016 12:07 AM
I think I figured out why Iowa polls were so wrong, Iowa isn't a secret ballot its done face to face with your overly pious corn fed neighbors. Once the election moves to a solitary GOP voter alone in a dark voting booth with their fear and bile, I predict the Donald will clean up!

Plus Cruz is super creepy
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 8:07 AM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
I think I figured out why Iowa polls were so wrong, Iowa isn't a secret ballot its done face to face with your overly pious corn fed neighbors. Once the election moves to a solitary GOP voter alone in a dark voting booth with their fear and bile, I predict the Donald will clean up!

Plus Cruz is super creepy
This is not the case with the republican caucus in Iowa.
The Democrats, do all the dancing around in little face to face groups.
The republicans went inside and then were all issued a secret ballot.
How the Iowa caucuses work: a confusing election process explained | US news | The Guardian
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 8:56 AM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Plus Cruz is super creepy
Cruz looks to me like a bad tempered Lou Costello, needs a Bud Abbott to straighten him out.

"Who's on first?" "Not you."
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 9:01 AM
Do you remember what the price of oil, and gas did as soon as George W. (Texan) was in office.
It was high the whole 8 years of Bush, until the economy collapsed.
Can you imagine what the price of oil & gas would be if The anti ethanol Cruz (Texan), was the POTUS?
Let's not let that happen!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 9:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Do you remember what the price of oil, and gas did as soon as George W. (Texan) was in office.
Can you imagine what the price of oil & gas would be if The anti ethanol Cruz (Texan), was the POTUS?
T
Not as if the Prez has his hand on a knob that controls oil/gasoline prices. But I'm not worried about the corn farmers, they'll always have a market. If Cruz gets elected Prez, all that ethanol will be immediately diverted: we'll have to drink our way through his term. Vodka - it's not just for breakfast anymore!
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 9:35 AM
You only hear Ethanol badly talked about.
I think it is a great thing, and runs great in all my vehicles.
Say what you will about the POTUS and gas prices?
I just know how it seems to be.
This is old data, but you can get the idea.
Gas prices were $4.21 a Gallon under Bush- So why is Obama to Blame for Gas Prices today ?
 
Bill Moore 2/3/2016 9:43 AM
You can't think that the fellow in office has anything to do with lower oil prices, when he outlawed drilling on most federal lands, advocating taxing the oil companies more, and has the EPA attempting to decrease our oil consumption. He couldn't stop people from extracting on private land, and with the economy in the dumps, there isn't as much demand. The Saudi's tried to call the shale producers bluff, by continuing production even when the price plummets, but world demand is down.
President Cruz will get the economy moving, and get people back to work, the demand for fuel will rise. The price of oil will get back to where the producers will make a profit. Everyone is now selling cheap, just to try to keep market share when that happens.
Many here advocate a $15 wage for burger flippers, how much should someone with skills make? It will take $3 gasoline to keep the oil industry working!
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 9:50 AM
Bill, I hope you're wrong about a prez Cruz.
IMO what a sad day that would be!
I'm all for giving Obama a 3rd term!
T
 
Mark Hammer 2/3/2016 10:16 AM
I don't think anyone has a bad opinion of ethanol per se. The problem is what large-scale ethanol production results in. One of the things it results in is conversion of more arable land to production of corn, rather than other produce. One of the other things it results in is increased prices for edible corn; unfortunately moreso for those cultures/populations that traditionally consume more of it.

The magic formula is to figure out a way to enhance ethanol production without those two particular side-effects. Do that, and its a winner.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 10:20 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Bill I hope you're wrong about a prez Cruz. IMO what a sad day that would be!
Remember President Cruz will bomb the hell out of everybody he don't like, so we'll all be radioactive vapor before Groundhog Day 2017 rolls around. Nothing to worry about.

Until then, I'll use nice cold ethanol to drown some olives. Everybody should, that will support the corn farmers.

BTW internal US economy is DOING JUST FINE. Can't sell much outside the US because of a strong dollar. W weakened the dollar upon arrival in office with the help of his bankster friends. In my case as well as yours tube prices skyrocketed, so did (imported) oil much to the delight of Bush family's Saudi Bin-Laden friends. So be careful what you wish for.

Crikeys, when you factor inflation, USA has the cheapest gasoline since the early 50's and someone STILL has to crab about it. Yeh that Oh-Bummer, he really sucks don't he.
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 10:34 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Remember President Cruz will bomb the hell out of everybody he don't like, so we'll all be radioactive vapor before Groundhog Day 2017 rolls around. Nothing to worry about.

Until then, I'll use nice cold ethanol to drown some olives. Everybody should, that will support the corn farmers.

BTW internal US economy is DOING JUST FINE. Can't sell much outside the US because of a strong dollar. W weakened the dollar upon arrival in office with the help of his bankster friends. In my case as well as yours tube prices skyrocketed, so did (imported) oil much to the delight of Bush family's Saudi Bin-Laden friends. So be careful what you wish for.

Crikeys, when you factor inflation, USA has the cheapest gasoline since the early 50's and someone STILL has to crab about it. Yeh that Oh-Bummer, he really sucks don't he.
You made that sound like I wanted a POTUS Cruz.
Let me make it perfectly clear.
No I don't want him, & I still want to send him back to g1 in canuck land.
It was Bill that was endorsing him, not me!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 11:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
You made that sound like I wanted a POTUS Cruz.
Let me make it perfectly clear.
No I don't want him, & I still want to send him back to g1 in canuck land.
It was Bill that was endorsing him, not me!
T
Terry, no worries mate I'm with ya. Perhaps you disinterpolated whats I wrote. Should I edit my post to fix it?

"Dear Bill ol' buddy, ol' pal... I'm always glad to see you express yourself here. we agree on some things it's clear, but sometimes not:

etc etc bla bla blah

Yeh Obama sucks. Yeh, Wush told me, so did Hammity & O'Riledup.

Dont' worry he soon be gone. Tear off pages on the calendar, there's only 352 or so left."
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 11:16 AM
Leo, I just wanted to clarify that!
And, make sure there were no misnomers!
T
 
g1 2/3/2016 12:07 PM
So it must be about time to get a definitive ruling on whether Cruz is elegible, no?
Like Enzo said, I don't care which way it goes, as long as they figure it out before, not make it an issue later.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 12:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
So it must be about time to get a definitive ruling on whether Cruz is elegible, no?
Let's look at it from the so-called "conservative" POV:

Why? Our "communist foreign born" president has held office over 7 years now, some people will NEVER believe his Hawaii birth certificate is anything but forged. With Cruz, it's a matter of WHEN his mommy signed her revocation of citizenship. And even if that turns out to make him - at birth - a non citizen of USA, there are some who will insist he IS, because Momma Cruz signed off AFTER baby Cruz was conceived, so there! Life begins at conception: the fertilized human egg that became Ted Cruz is USA citizen, Q.E.D. So there, nah nah nah.

OK, back to normal now. Whew, I was running out of oxygen over there.

Please g1, let him drive a Zamboni or somethin'. I'm sure he has enough talent to do that.
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 12:45 PM
Is that Zamboni, or Zamboner?
 
loudthud 2/3/2016 2:14 PM
Ethanol as a part of the Renewable Fuels Standard is a complete fraud. It creates more smog than it cures because it has to be trucked around, it can't flow through pipelines. Your car gets 20% less mileage. It doesn't save money and it doesn't save on imported oil. If it's so great, why don't farmers in Iowa use it? Cuz they know what crap it is. Use it in any portable power tool like a weed eater or leaf blower and it voids the warranty. Try finding a used boat that doesn't need an engine re-build and a new fuel tank. All because Iowa is the first primary state and you need to do well there to get money for the next state. They had to bribe enough congressmen to get it passed and now it's the gift that keeps on giving. Ingenious!

What you should know about ethanol and the Iowa caucus - Fortune

Looking at the county by county results in Iowa, Rubio won several of the counties with large turnout. In the small to medium counties he was third with Trump and Cruz trading off at one and two.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/results/iowa/
 
J M Fahey 2/3/2016 2:50 PM
it can't flow through pipelines.
????????????????????????????
Heavy dirty sticky raw oil can flow through pipelines.
Lighter dangerous flammable gasoline can flow through pipelines.
Water can flow through pipelines.
Ultra light flammable easily explosive (if it leaks) high pressure (which favors leaks) natural gas can flow through pipelines.

I wonder why a product, liquid at atmospheric pressure, with density comparable to water (within 20% of it), volatile/flammable but way less than gasoline, way cleaner than anything else can't also run through pipelines.

Definitely CLEANER BURNING than gasoline, by the way, as anybody can prove by lighting 2 cotton swabs, one wet with alcohol, the other with gasoline.

Oh!!! **FORTUNE** doesn't like it?
No relation to the Oil industry barons perhaps?

FWIW Brazil is happily saving 20% of Oil imports (which is a TON of money) by adding said amout of ethanol to gasoline, or straight running cars on 100% ethanol, go figure.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 3:43 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
I wonder why a product, liquid at atmospheric pressure, with density comparable to water (within 20% of it), volatile/flammable but way less than gasoline, way cleaner than anything else can't also run through pipelines.
Maybe they're worried people will drill into ethanol pipelines, when they want a little something to dilute their orange juice, or drown their olives.

Enough trouble now in places like Nigeria where people drill into gasoline lines, wind up blowing up their whole village. Stooooopid. But they do it.

Definitely CLEANER BURNING than gasoline, by the way, as anybody can prove by lighting 2 cotton swabs, one wet with alcohol, the other with gasoline.

Oh!!! **FORTUNE** doesn't like it?
No relation to the Oil industry barons perhaps?

FWIW Brazil is happily saving 20% of Oil imports (which is a TON of money) by adding said amout of ethanol to gasoline, or straight running cars on 100% ethanol, go figure.
First time I worked in Brazil, 1982, everything it seems was running on ethanol. Sure smelled like it too. I'm not 100% sure it was 100% ethanol, might have been a mix but there was sure a lot of it. OK, miles per gallon, or km per litre wasn't as good as gasoline but everything from VW bugs & little motocycles to big trucks & buses ran on it. There are rubber & plastic types that work compatibly with ethanol. Presumably their motor vehicles were fitted with these. Problem in the USA, even years after 10% ethanol in gas became standard, manufacturers still haven't caught up with the need for rubber & plastic parts that don't corrode exposed to ethanol. In just the last couple years a few vehicles intended for flex-fuel, 85% ethanol, presumably have the right rubber & plastic parts plus engines designed for the fuel & can also run on mostly-gasoline mixtures. It's a slow slow turning, badly organized.

For yard & farm machinery, engines wear out fast with ethanol mix, what are we supposed to do? I've checked the local gas stations, several brands, winter & summer - the medium & hi-test gasolines are NOT alcohol free. It's a major PIA to find gas with no ethanol just to keep the lawnchopper happy, what's a mother to do?
 
The Dude 2/3/2016 3:50 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
So it must be about time to get a definitive ruling on whether Cruz is elegible, no?
Like Enzo said, I don't care which way it goes, as long as they figure it out before, not make it an issue later.
And on the other side, Hillary is under investigation over the email debacle . It is unclear whether charges will ever be filed. Ain't that somethin'? Two potential general election candidates that may or may not be able to hold the office. And that's the best we have to offer?
 
big_teee 2/3/2016 3:51 PM
I have 3 vehicles.
98 5.7L 350 v8 extended cab, a 2000 5.3L V8 Z71 4WD.
My wife has a 2010 3.8L V-6 Impala.
I've ran them all on ethanol and non ethanol.
All 3 get the best mileage on the ethanol, and it is by far the cheapest.
I buy the cheapest around, and it is at the Kroger Grocery store with the Kroger swipe discount card.
T
PS The Z71 4WD doesn't get very good mileage on anything.
 
The Dude 2/3/2016 3:59 PM
And for those of up the north, ethanol keeps gas lines from freezing.
 
Bill Moore 2/3/2016 4:09 PM
Most probably aren't aware that the same pipeline carries gasoline, diesel, and propane, they are separated with-----water. Since oil and water don't mix, no problem, however, water, and ethanol will mix, (and dilute).
A few years ago Mexicans were up in arms, (if they had any), over the high price of corn. Yeah, it was going to make fuel rather than tortillas, their govt. had to step in and mandate price controls for food corn.
Juan, doesn't Brazil use sugar cane to make ethanol? Much more efficient than corn, and if the vehicle is designed to run on it, no damage. Too much in most gasoline powered vehicles, damage can result! Even the "flex fuel" vehicles aren't designed to run on a very strong mixture, (more than 15%).
Like Loudthud stated, "greenhouse" emissions are pretty much a wash with gasoline, if concidering the fertilizer, and equipment/transportation costs. It was a way to pretend to be "green", and get the Iowa farmers vote.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 4:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
And on the other side, Hillary is under investigation over the email debacle . It is unclear whether charges will ever be filed. Ain't that somethin'? Two potential general election candidates that may or may not be able to hold the office. And that's the best we have to offer?
No question the anti-Hillary crowd is hanging their hat on the notion she "gave away vital secret information" by not using a (supposedly) secure gummint server. I doubt anyone got any secret info off that server but it WAS bad form to use her own and not the proper one. Who knew? Did anyone instruct the Secretary of State or is she s'posed to know this by osmosis? I think she learned her lesson by now. Still not supporting her for Prez, don't worry about that.
 
The Dude 2/3/2016 4:21 PM
I'm not saying Hillary is guilty or Cruz is a foreigner. Just pointing out that both have at least a possibility of being a problem. I will say this on the subject of Hillary. Let's forget about the legality of the situation for a second. It's the digital age. Politicians should be at least moderately computer savvy or at the very least understand security protocols. So, ... the way I look at it, there are 2 possibilities. 1) She wasn't aware that having her own unprotected server was a problem. (she's stupid) or, 2) She was aware and chose to ignore protocols. (she lied). I'm not real fond of either- speaking in terms of presidential material.
 
Enzo 2/3/2016 4:49 PM
What Bill said^^^. If you send ethanol down a pipeline, it will arrive diluted.

People used to claim so and so gas station diluted their gas, with water. I use to tell them to go fill a jar half with gas and half with water, and shake it up. See how diluted it becomes.

And I agree with LT, if I use E-gas, my vehicles get substantially less mileage.
 
loudthud 2/3/2016 5:02 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
I wonder why a product, liquid at atmospheric pressure, with density comparable to water (within 20% of it), volatile/flammable but way less than gasoline, way cleaner than anything else can't also run through pipelines.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/...egins-service/

Paraphrased from last weeks "Last Man Standing"

Kid: Hey Dad, our class in going to Washington to see our legislature in action.
Dad: I'll bet all you will see is inaction.

In the US things don't get done in the best way when the reason for doing it is to line some bureaucrat's pocket. Ethanol gets blended at the distribution point by adding it to tanker trucks. In the US, corn is used to make the Alcohol. This keeps corn prices high and lots of land growing corn that would otherwise be used for other crops. When they couldn't get cheap US corn in Mexico a few years ago, the price had tripled, there was a small riot of women complaining tortilla prices were too high. In the US it's not an energy policy, it's a farm subsidy policy.

Don't they use sugar cane in Brazil to make the alcohol? That would make a lot more sense. It takes less energy to make the alcohol than it actually produces. Sadly, not so in the US.
 
Steve A. 2/3/2016 5:46 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
I'm not saying Hillary is guilty or Cruz is a foreigner. Just pointing out that both have at least a possibility of being a problem. I will say this on the subject of Hillary. Let's forget about the legality of the situation for a second. It's the digital age. Politicians should be at least moderately computer savvy or at the very least understand security protocols. So, ... the way I look at it, there are 2 possibilities. 1) She wasn't aware that having her own unprotected server was a problem. (she's stupid) or, 2) She was aware and chose to ignore protocols. (she lied). I'm not real fond of either- speaking in terms of presidential material.
I had read that her server was installed and maintained by the Secret Service which sounds pretty secure to me. I'll see if I can confirm that with a link.

Steve
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 5:50 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Don't they use sugar cane in Brazil to make the alcohol?
Yessiree, sugar cane makes a nice high proof cachaça, wring what little water & other byproducts (fusels) there are outta that & you have pure ethanol. Another ethanol factoid, the stuff is hygroscopic. If you purify it to 100%, it will absorb water out of the air or wherever, (the bottom of your gas tank if used as "gas line antifreeze") and settle at 95%. Which is still plenty good as a fuel, still not as much mpg or km per liter or furlongs per fortnight, as gasoline.

Some fuel for ethanol distillation can be had from "bagasse" the leftover cane stalks, plenty of it to be had & it burns well. Sort of completes the "natural fuel" cycle, how organic. Wonder what we use in the US? Coal? #6 bunker? Natural gas (methane/ethane mix)? If there's an inefficient way of doing things, we'll find it.
 
The Dude 2/3/2016 5:50 PM
It was on "property guarded by the secret service" is what I read, which is irrelevant, IMO. It's much more likely that hackers will breach the server than someone will walk in and steal the hardware.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/3/2016 6:13 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
I had read that her server was installed and maintained by the Secret Service which sounds pretty secure to me. I'll see if I can confirm that with a link.

Steve
Secret circus lets wackos walk straight into the White House. Sounds secure to me Chief, how about you Agent 99?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37656[/ATTACH]
 
rjb 2/3/2016 8:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
... by not using a (supposedly) secure gummint server.
Supposedly? Oh, come now. I'm sure it's at least as secure as the OPM network.
https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cy...ity-incidents/
 
Justin Thomas 2/3/2016 9:32 PM
I think we need to write a letter to The Donald, asking him to donate some of his bazillions to the MEF to pay for all the free advertising we're giving him... And for doing his smear campaign, too!

Justin
 
Enzo 2/3/2016 11:28 PM
Hah!

I have to doubt that anything said on this forum will change anyone's mind about Trump, regardless if you hate him or love him.
 
J M Fahey 2/4/2016 12:05 AM
Maybe USA could recover some of its old traditions (hope 1968 qualifies), does anybody remember Louis Abolafia, the only Presidential candidate who had "nothing to hide" ?

Now that's honesty

[IMG]https://parisposters.com/images/posters/large/ART/ART_350-louis-abolafia-for-president-1968-psychedelic-anonymous.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/92420440-american-social-activist-and-comedian-louis-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLa NXjFDscswWPAdKW%2BdqBXgAuDwBmkxNbn0VIWJYe6MxF5inZPUfIK5h %2F36p1wzwt50Rg%3D%3D[/IMG]

neither his chosen VP candidate had anything to hide:
[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/72/a8/cb/72a8cb9166f51782ae2dda59505532b8.jpg[/IMG]
 
Enzo 2/4/2016 12:12 AM
LOoks a little like Cher...

So if Hillary took off her clothes, the whole email deal would disappear? And if we bared Cruz, the questions about his Canadian birth would stop?
 
J M Fahey 2/4/2016 5:46 AM
So if Hillary took off her clothes,
might have worked in 1968, why not? She would have been around 20 y.o.
But nowadays ......

It reminds me of Madonna , who is also beyond ripe .

In a Paris show, a couple years ago, she started her old routine about letting her clothes drop, catching them just in time, then letting drop a little more, teasing, and somebody in the audience shouted, loud and clear: "Granny !!!! put a sweater on or you'll catch a cold !!!! "

Youth does no respect its elders these days
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 7:23 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Hah! I have to doubt that anything said on this forum will change anyone's mind about Trump, regardless if you hate him or love him.
True 'nuff, but Trump's just so much fun to kick around, like a bad-tempered, horripilated (look it up) shmoo.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37669[/ATTACH]

Where's Al Capp when you need him. Trump-shmoo is all outta whack.
 
Bill Moore 2/4/2016 9:28 AM
Where was the secret service, in the john?
Hillary Clinton's email firm Platte River Networks was run from a loft in Denver | Daily Mail Online
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 9:49 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Where was the secret service, in the john?
More like "being the john," seems Secret Circus have to investigate strip clubs & cat houses besides being the White House greeters for any num nut that wants to wander in.

The way Hillary's server has been presented up to now, I thought it was on a shelf in the basement of her Westchester county mansion. No matter, hackers can get into computer gear no matter where it's located, even in your pocket.
 
J M Fahey 2/4/2016 1:24 PM
That's the point.
Who cares where the servers are?
As soon as they connect, that data is all over the World at the speed of light, ripe for hacking.

Of course, NSA gets it first.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 2:34 PM
Meanwhile, Donny Trump's putative choice for Vice President Marty "Smiling Death" Shrekli has had his turn testifying before U.S. Congress. "Took the 5th" IOW refused to answer every question except the pronunciation of his name, to which he incorrectly answered in the affirmative when Rep. Trey Gowdy mispronounced his name "Shrkeli" and asked whether that was correct. Soon as he was cut loose Marty tweeted "Congress: what a bunch of imbeciles." Thanks Marty, we knew that.

I figure one of two things is gonna happen. Either they're going to hand his ass to him somehow. Or more likely he will be co-opted, because he clearly has the right attitude to be a member of our federal government.

Here's a picture of Marty and his New Best Friend, the stone faced Aztec law enforcement agent on the right. Marty's the ugly guy on the left, with the uncanny smile. His drug company makes ketamine, think he's got some samples? Might explain his dodgy behavior, poor decision making, and that please-punch-me smile. Your next Vice President. Perfect.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37684[/ATTACH]
 
Enzo 2/4/2016 2:35 PM
Just saw today that Colin Powell and Condy Rice also used private emails.

Golly gee, high level diplomats actually using private means of communication? Oh humanity is on its last legs.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 3:34 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Just saw today that Colin Powell and Condy Rice also used private emails.
I think General Powell would make a great President. He says his wife says no... she must have 5 stars on her shoulders. Wonder what stink would be raised about his emails? Condi, stick to the piano, you're good at it. Wish she had, all along. I was in Japan when she was sent over. Headlines read "Bush sends Rice to Japan, China." Got a lot of big laughs from normally staid natives.
 
J M Fahey 2/4/2016 4:14 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Here's a picture of Marty and his New Best Friend, the stone faced Aztec law enforcement agent on the right.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37684[/ATTACH]
Oh, that face might be Mexican but definitely not Aztec; I meant something like :
[IMG]http://images.csmonitor.com/csmarchives/2008/05/OCOPS_P1.jpg?alias=standard_600x400[/IMG]
unseen here and doubly so as Presidential bodyguard.

It was shocking because we expected the classic:
[IMG]http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2013/01/10/4185e047-a645-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x350/905e5a0bfa6e24cb55c22c2628850355/142835951.jpg[/IMG]

FWIW this is what *our* SS people looks like:

[IMG]http://ams-sc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tesitore-delarua.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://media.diariopopular.com.ar/adjuntos/143/imagenes/001/460/0001460120.jpg[/IMG]
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 5:54 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Oh, that face might be Mexican but definitely not Aztec; I meant something like :

unseen here and doubly so as Presidential bodyguard.

It was shocking because we expected the classic:
Quite rightly so Juan, on second thought the handsome chap on the right is more likely Olmec. Has a bit of a resemblance to those big stone statue heads scattered in the southern jungle. The other guy looks like the kid who just can't keep his hand out of the cookie jar, and knows his parents are anti-violence; he'll never get the spanking he knows he deserves.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37687[/ATTACH]

Meanwhile it looks like our Men In Black have found themselves another alien.
 
rjb 2/4/2016 8:23 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Meanwhile, Donny Trump's putative choice for Vice President Marty "Smiling Death" Shrekli...
Since when? Last I heard, Donny thought Marty was even more loathsome than, uh, Donny.
Donald Trump trashes Martin Shkreli - Business Insider
 
The Dude 2/4/2016 8:30 PM
The only reason an unscrupulous ass like Don wouldn't like the kid is that he is making that much money. It's envy and jealousy.
 
loudthud 2/4/2016 8:46 PM
Here's something new. Up to 25% of government employees say that they will quit if Trump is elected. They want to deny him the privilege of firing them.

Survey: 1 in 4 Federal Employees Say They Will Consider Quitting If Trump Elected - Breitbart

Now if Cher would just leave the country....
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 9:04 PM
Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
The only reason an unscrupulous ass like Don wouldn't like the kid is that he is making that much money. It's envy and jealousy.
Jealousy. Exactly: it's "why didn't I think of that?" Trump self-loathing he's wiping on Marty. Imagine, if instead of frittering Daddy's quarter-bil inheritance on real estate, Don bought into pharma/health and carried on like Shrekli for the last 40 years. He'd be YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE! beyond imagination. And you'd be paying a grand for an aspirin.

It's like the hi school sports hero dissing the prettiest girl in the class, just before he falls for her, hook line & sinker. Watch this space. Smoochie smoochie!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37689[/ATTACH]
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 9:24 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Here's something new. Up to 25% of government employees say that they will quit if Trump is elected. They want to deny him the privilege of firing them.

Survey: 1 in 4 Federal Employees Say They Will Consider Quitting If Trump Elected - Breitbart
Consider the source: Breitbart (fat beard) consistently tries to outdo Murdoch "news" sources with outrageous, unbelievable, ludicrous fantasies. OTOH it "sounds good." Fed employees get excellent paychecks, benefits & pensions. Anyone would have to be out of their mind to quit. If they get fired, it's 99 weeks of collecting unemployment while they pretend to look for a job. What choice would you make? Hang onto that job, even if you accomplish nothing, you get the dosh. That's right, you know you would.

No wonder Breitbart founder's heart went kablooey a couple years ago, only in his early 50's. Few can survive the pressure of having to constantly outdo themselves producing ever increasing quantities of absolute bullshit.
 
Enzo 2/4/2016 9:46 PM
Murdoch pretends to make a news service. Breitbart stated his goal was to oust democrats, and did not care how he did it. Asked about whether his stories were factual, he said it didn't matter, he'd say whatever it takes.

Karma took him.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/4/2016 9:59 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Murdoch pretends to make a news service. Breitbart stated his goal was to oust democrats, and did not care how he did it. Asked about whether his stories were factual, he said it didn't matter, he'd say whatever it takes.

Karma took him.
And so the Breitbart organization continues. As will Murdoch's when his time comes - his playboy son finally showing some interest in taking over.

No rest for the wicked.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37691[/ATTACH]
 
The Dude 2/4/2016 11:03 PM
Don't know if you guys are familiar with BLR, but...........

 
Bill Moore 2/5/2016 10:23 AM
The actual source, (as Breitbart links to), is here:
25% of Feds Would Consider Leaving Their Jobs if Trump Becomes President - Management - GovExec.com
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/5/2016 11:02 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
"While one-quarter of the federal workforce might quit their jobs or retire if Trump were to lead the executive branch, a majority -- about six in 10 -- would be “embarrassed” to have him as their boss. About half of respondents said the same of Hillary Clinton, compared to 45 percent for Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and 37 percent for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt. Just one in five said the same of Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla.

Respondents in equal measure – 27 percent – said they would be “proud” of serving under a President Sanders or Clinton, edging out the top Republicans."

"Might" - suure they would quit... maybe if they'd already earned their pensions. Letsee what happens. Those gummint perks suuuure are schweeeet! There's always attrition, people retire, maybe a few will name the new POTUS as their excuse. I doubt there will be a rush to the exits. Unless Cruz gets elected, then there will be a rush to the bomb shelter.
 
g1 2/5/2016 11:57 AM
Many people probably "consider" quitting their jobs every day. It's a long way off from giving their notice, or even saying they will quit.
 
Enzo 2/5/2016 2:54 PM
yeah, every election cycle we hear stuff like that. If XXX gets elected president, I am: leaving a government job, moving to Canada/Europe/ somewhere, killing myself, becoming a monk in Tibet, whatever. They never do.

The direct effect on government employees by the new president will be minor overall. Certain divisions might be downsized, and others enlarged. it will be a wash. The guys who print requisition forms for the GSA will still be printing them, no matter who gets elected, as will the FAA inspectors, and the USDA inspectors, and all the civilian military related folks. I doubt that payroll secretary will see much change in her work environs whether we add troops to Afghanistan or pull them home, why would she quit?
 
loudthud 2/5/2016 4:49 PM
Ever been to a National Cemetery? They always have a portrait of the current President on the wall. I think you'll find that at any federal building. Imagine having to go to work each day with a portrait of someone you hate looking at you all day. It's no wonder they say they'll quit.
 
Bill Moore 2/5/2016 5:18 PM
I truly doubt that any would leave the gravy train, unless it is the retirement option.
President Cruz has promised to get rid of many of the drones on the payroll, maybe many are worried?
 
big_teee 2/7/2016 8:54 AM
Last Night on the GOP Debate Gestapo Trump said this.
He said that He would do Water boarding and a whole lot worse if he was the POTUS.
I think this is a big deal since the Afghan & Iraq wars, the Geneva Convention has ruled water boarding to be Torture.
Laws and treaties seem to mean nothing to King Gestapo Trump!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/7/2016 10:47 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
I truly doubt that any would leave the gravy train, unless it is the retirement option.
President Cruz has promised to get rid of many of the drones on the payroll, maybe many are worried?
I'm happy to see you've come to that conclusion.

I'm also sure no gummint workers are worried about a candidate's promise to eliminate drones (not the flying ones) on the payroll. Just like the police departments, gummint workers have their ways of closing ranks, keeping mouths shut, & letting do-nothing and/or obnoxious employees continue in their offices. As we have seen, despite calls for whistle blowers to expose the truth, it's always the whistle blowers who are punished. And so it goes.

If Cruz wants to find a drone, all he needs to do is look in a mirror. And he can drag his Cuban-American friend Ruby-o into the frame. And why not Hillary too. Three flies in a bottle, buzzing endlessly.

Quote Originally Posted by "big_teee
Last Night on the GOP Debate Gestapo Trump said this.
He said that He would do Water boarding and a whole lot worse if he was the POTUS.
I suppose this appeals to the Trump supporters who would like a President Caligula. Next debate, no words, not a peep from the candidates. Let's see 'em all waterboard each other while a sound track of detestably sweet dentist-office muzak plays. Step up Mister Trump, you're FIRST, you can take off your jacket & shirt or not, that's your choice, lie down & open that venom spewing trap of yours wide.

Speaking of venom, one of my favorites, Maureen Dowd takes Hillary apart in this weekend's editorial. link: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/op....html?comments

Ah that Hillary, she was such a sweetie way back when. 1969 to be exact:

[IMG]http://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/02/07/opinion/sunday/07dowd/07dowd-blog427.jpg[/IMG]

I'll reuse an often used Leo_Gnardo quote: "They're cute. When they're young."
 
big_teee 2/7/2016 10:51 AM
Leo, don't pick on HRC too much, I will probably vote for her.
I'm flipping between Bernie and Hillary.
Also, I've seen reporters voluntarily try water boarding.
After the fact, they all called it torture!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/7/2016 11:18 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I've seen reporters voluntarily try water boarding.
After the fact, they all called it torture!
T
Given a choice between listening to Queen Hillary speak, and waterboarding, I'll take the waterboarding.

Last report from New Hamster has Gloria Steinem and former Secretary o' Snakes Madeline Albright, trying to shame young women voters into supporting Hillary. "We need a female president, NOW!"

Steinem, I could understand. Albright, not so much, she kicked butt as SoS, plus she spoke & understood Eastern European languages - their diplomats & envoys & assistants couldn't carry on "secret conversations" in Serb, Croatian, Magyar, etc. while she was within earshot. Nice secret weapon to have!

We'll get a female president sooner or later, no problem. What we need is a good president. Every time.

Personally, I wouldn't select a candidate on the basis of some uniqueness: female, latino, inexperience, obnoxiousness, religiosity (feigned or not), stupid haircut, filthy rich, tall boots, ability to shred on bass guitar, record of wrecking successful large company, whatever. Sort of narrows the field don't it. Say who's running on the Green ticket?

I'll leave you to ponder your choices, "until the real thing comes along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LljpLw8yRwM

"I'd be a banker, or a knave for you. Whatever that is..."
 
big_teee 2/7/2016 11:48 AM
My problem with Bernie is two fold.
1. is he is a dreamer, and we don't have time for a revolunitonary, we need a POTUS now.
2. I'll let you figure out what that might be, I won't list it here, speculate away. lol
I will be one of the very few of either party, that makes the statement that I think Obama has been a good president.
I think HRC will continue on with some of the Obama themes.
All of the GOP, just scare the hell out of me!
T
PS: I love the idea of a GOP water boarding Debate.
I know Christie would really dig water boarding Rubio!
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/7/2016 12:58 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I will be one of the very few of either party, that makes the statement that I think Obama has been a good president.
Could have done a lot better BUT he's up against a congressional faction that are out to make him look like a dope. "My number one job is to make sure Obama is a one term president." THAT one, and others like him. Shame on THEM, for taking their paychecks and stopping anything at all from happening. We could have hired a pile of concrete blocks, they'd have done just as well and a lot cheaper.

I love the idea of a GOP water boarding Debate.
I know Christie would really dig water boarding Rubio!
I'd like to see Christie waterboarded by every driver & passenger that got stuck in his infamous five-day traffic jam. Now he knows for sure he's not going to be president, it's funny and appropriate for him to pull Ruby-o's pants down at every opportunity. Like a couple of miserable kids at some rich prep school.

I'm using Ruby from now on to name the Florida candy pants candidate. It's old-time pawn shop jargon, means "fake." Very appropriate. Who else would give a winner's speech when he got third place. Just a little overenthusiastic yathink? Must have got a nice "attaboy" pat on the back from his billionaire puppeteer.

FWIW Bernie has been "presented" as a "dreamer." Somehow I don't think 30+ years in political office qualifies him as such. He's actually gotten things done, knows how to deal with other congress members & bureaucrats.

The ones who are talking about carpet bombing this & that, waterboarding & the rest, those are the dreamers. In the unfortunate event any wind up elected, I'll be dreaming of a military coup d'etat: "No sir Mr. President, we ain't gonna do it. Now put your hands behind your back and we'll send you somewhere safe & quiet. Or else."

There's plenty of time to decide. Heck, there might even be completely different people on the ballot when the time comes.

A quick intro to one of my favorite former candidates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsU8_DSmlXY

And if you can take an hour of it, no less than Henry Fonda narrates 10 minute segments on the candidacy of what could have been the common ordinary savior of America's destiny. Start here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTHge8q0zwY

This should work up a good appetite for all those Stupor Bowl goodies yer all about to devour.
 
rjb 2/7/2016 1:31 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
A quick intro to one of my favorite former candidates:
Baltimore boy & perpetual Presidential candidate Vermin Supreme used to book punk bands at the Marble Bar.
Can't ask for better qualifications than that!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme



EDIT:
Mo' vids. Some even semi-thought-provoking.
https://verminsupreme2016.wordpress.com/some-videos/

EDIT II:
Trailor for the documentary Who is Vermin Supreme? An Outsider Odyssey. Looks fun.
Who Is Vermin Supreme? An Outsider Odyssey

NPR story
Commentary: If Elected, No Flying Toothbrush Monkeys : NPR
 
SpareRibs 2/7/2016 3:40 PM
Hello,
Is bush going to win the same way his brother did ??? Nine votes from the Supreme Court apparently over rides all of ours.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/7/2016 3:58 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
Hello,
Is bush going to win the same way his brother did ??? Nine votes from the Supreme Court apparently over rides all of ours.
Cripes, I hope never to see anything like that happen again. Where in the Constitution does it say the Supremes decide who's President? That was a very low point (AKA nadir, if you appreciate the pun) in US history. Hanging chads indeed, what a crock.
 
Bill Moore 2/8/2016 10:16 AM
Once again, the supreme court only decided that Florida had to follow their election laws, and couldn't arbitrarily change the rules to benefit the democrats, during the course of the election. (They wanted to selectively recount the areas that would help Gore, and ignore the areas that would benefit Bush!)(The democrats also wanted to throw out some of the military vote!)
Florida Recount: Official Statements
CNN.com - Bush still wins Florida in newspaper recount - April 4, 2001
 
Mark Hammer 2/8/2016 12:28 PM
The 2000 Florida ballot was as good an illustration of the importance of usability testing as one is ever likely to get. If you've ever seen the so-called "butterfly" ballot, it needs to come with a 20-minute Youtube instruction tutorial on how to use it.

The Supreme Court wasn't asked to decide who would be president. They were asked to decide on the admissibility of ambiguously-completed ballots. They made their ruling and the electoral college did what they did, which determined the outcome. Declaring any and all ambiguously-completed ballots inadmissible would have contravened the spirit of the constitution and elector rights, so a compromise was required that retained elector rights but assigned votes to candidates in a defensible way. Of course, had the ballot been properly designed, it would have never gone to the SC in the first place.
 
SpareRibs 2/10/2016 12:52 AM
Hello,
He's one step closer.
 
salvarsan 2/10/2016 1:56 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
The 2000 Florida ballot was as good an illustration of the importance of usability

The Supreme Court wasn't asked to decide who would be president. They were asked to decide on the admissibility of ambiguously-completed ballots. They made their ruling and the electoral college did what they did, which determined the outcome.
Disagree. Congressional GOP staffers besieged the Florida courthouse charged with an accurate election recount. Though identified as such, they were neither hindered by FL state police under Jeb Bush's command nor prosecuted by any justice department in the US. Nixonian ratfuckers (look it up) would have been proud.

Conservative justices on SCOTUS have been shown, not merely anecdotally, to be in affiliation with Koch functionaries.

If these are insufficient data, the words "the fix was in" should be sufficient to convey the historical consequence.

Hey, I just love paying for the Iraq War II and the 2008 market crash. Yeah, Bush II was a good administration. Right?

Do not waste analysis on procedural minutiae when the malignant actors are so evident.
 
Enzo 2/10/2016 12:56 PM
He's one step closer.
Remember 2012? Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucus. it is WAAAAAY early yet.
 
loudthud 2/10/2016 2:24 PM
The poles were a lot closer in NH. That says that Trump and Sanders can get new voters to the poles. Since voter turnout is so low, anyone who can get voters to the poles has a good chance of winning. What I find interesting is how much money candidates spent per vote received. I saw this on the news for the Republicans, can't find any info on the Democrats.

Jeb Bush: $1200
Donald Trump: $40
Ted Cruz: $18

Here's a list of 23 celebs that have endorsed Trump:

Mike Tyson
Stephen Baldwin
Gary Busey
Dennis Rodman
Lou Ferrigno
Hulk Hogan
Ted Nugent
Tila Tequila
Wayne Newton
Willie Robertson
Jesse Ventura
Charlie Sheen
Ivana Trump (ex-wife)
Mike Ditka
Terrell Owens
Cher (whoda thunk)
Kenny Rogers
Mark Cuban
Chuck Yeager
Tom Brady
Gene Simmons
Dan Blizerian
Howard Stern
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/10/2016 2:33 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Remember 2012? Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucus. it is WAAAAAY early yet.
Well Mr. Santorum did permanently win his way into the dictionary, and deservedly so. Unless you want to be grossed out don't look him up.

Loudthud, that list of Trump supporters... mostly a crowd of HEY LOOK AT ME! types, no? Perfect together. Maybe Cher & Wayne Newton can sing a duet: You Got Me Babe... woops it's too late for Groundhog Day, maybe next year. Or tomorrow, it's all the same.
 
loudthud 2/10/2016 4:35 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Loudthud, that list of Trump supporters... mostly a crowd of HEY LOOK AT ME! types, no?
Most definitely! Several are people he fired on Celebrity Apprentice, and they haven't been on the news or TMZ since. The one that shocks me is Cher after what she (allegedly) said about George W.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/10/2016 5:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Most definitely! Several are people he fired on Celebrity Apprentice, and they haven't been on the news or TMZ since. The one that shocks me is Cher after what she (allegedly) said about George W.
Well Cher has been known to occasionally make a poor decision. Gregg Allman. Just sayin'... Nobody's perfect. Then again we don't know who made up that list, they could have glommed names off the cover page of The National Enquirer.

Maybe some of these people were promised cabinet positions. Gene Simmons would make a terrific Secretary of State. Equivalent obnoxious level to The Donald, and he can get his way by sticking out his awful tongue. I can imagine Secretary Simmons negotiating with President Putin, no doubt that would make history. Queen Hillary's Reset button would be long since forgotten.
 
rjb 2/10/2016 6:35 PM
Talking about the NH primary: in the Democratic contest, Vermin Supreme kicked some Republican butt (hunh?)

Vermin Supreme finishes fourth in New Hampshire Democratic primaries - CBS News

Vermin Supreme receives more votes in N.H. than Jim Gilmore - NY Daily News
A perennial joke candidate who wears a boot on his head has received more votes in the New Hampshire primary than former Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore.

Vermin Supreme, a performance artist with a wizard-like beard, had received more than 240 votes in the Democratic contest with 89% reporting early Wednesday, compared to Gilmore’s 125 among Republicans.

The former governor was not alone in being bested by Supreme, with the bearded bon vivant’s vote total beating former Iowa caucus winners Mike Huckabee (198 votes) and Rick Santorum (145 votes).
 
g1 2/10/2016 7:04 PM
A little more humour for ya.
The Donald Trump story. Maybe Depp has found his calling at long last?
http://vo.fod4.com/v/ad38087bac/v1280-q2.mp4
 
The Dude 2/10/2016 7:09 PM
If it came down to voting for Vermin Supreme or Donald Trump, I'd vote for Vermin.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/10/2016 8:12 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
A little more humour for ya.
The Donald Trump story. Maybe Depp has found his calling at long last?
Cap'n Jack Sparrow with a bad blond wig & a monkey suit. Perfect!
 
salvarsan 2/10/2016 11:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
The poles were a lot closer in NH. That says that Trump and Sanders can get new voters to the poles. Since voter turnout is so low, anyone who can get voters to the poles has a good chance of winning.
I remember the NH and IA turnouts in the 2011 primaries. They were below 25%, I think.

This time, I ran some numbers on New Hampshire. I like that I can copy an HTML/web table and easily paste it into a spreadsheet for sums and stats. Lowers my bullshit quotient, knowwuttamean?

Of New Hampshire's 767K registered voters, about 531K made it to the polls, about ~70%.

152K of those were for Sanders and 100K were for Trump. Clinton got 95K, still more than any other GOP contender.
 
Bill Moore 2/11/2016 8:58 AM
The sad story for Sanders is that even though he won most of the democrat votes, he and hillary both have the same delegates.
Clinton likely to leave NH with same number of delegates as Sanders | TheHill
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/11/2016 10:30 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
The sad story for Sanders is that even though he won most of the democrat votes, he and hillary both have the same delegates.
Clinton likely to leave NH with same number of delegates as Sanders | TheHill
Well you know Queen Hillary is entitled to . . . whatever she dreams up!
 
big_teee 2/11/2016 1:34 PM
The Rolling Stones are PO'd because Trump is using there songs at Railies.
Rolling Stones Say Trump Has No Permission To Use Songs At Rallies
I don't blame them.
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/11/2016 1:57 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
The Rolling Stones are PO'd because Trump is using there songs at Railies. I don't blame them. T
Also Trump using Beatles "Revolution." Wow is he looking for trouble! If John was still alive he'd do an "El Kabong" on The Donald. Candidate Trump deserves a long loud yelling-at from Yoko Ono. That would count as severe punishment, yathink?
 
The Dude 2/11/2016 3:50 PM
Must not be any appropriate Nugent songs.
 
big_teee 2/11/2016 4:02 PM
Stranglehold maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5CB_ji4_I4
 
loudthud 2/11/2016 4:35 PM
I heard he was using "We're Not Going to Take It" by Twisted Sister with permission. Going from memory and my questionable pitch it seems like "We're Not Going to Take It" and "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" are almost the same cords in the same key.
 
Bill Moore 2/11/2016 4:57 PM
Maybe John would approve! Wern't there stories a few years ago that in his later years, he was a fan of Ronnie, and was really a conservative?
 
big_teee 2/11/2016 5:00 PM
Who was a fan of Ronnie?
And, who's Ronnie?
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/11/2016 6:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Who was a fan of Ronnie?
And, who's Ronnie?
Ronnie Ray-gun.

By the late 70's John Lennon had settled down a lot compared to his hell raising days and "lost years" early 70's. With a stable relationship & a kid to raise I'm sure he "saw the light" to some better degree. But I really don't think he'd put up with an obnoxious twit using his music to campaign by. (And you can be dam' certain Yoko wouldn't like it but I doubt she controls that part of the catalog.) More likely John would be singin' LOUD, "How does it feel to be one of the beautiful PEOPLE? - - - Ya keep all your money in a big brown bag - - - Baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich fat --------" He might have become the family man but I'm sure would enjoy sending up those who need it.

In any case, John never got to enjoy the Reagan "Sunrise Over America" years. And I can't see how he would have approved of Governor Reagan's actions in California especially regarding his handling of student unrest, Berkeley & like that.

Kind of a surprise Dee Snider would allow "We're Not Gonna Take It" to be on the Trump playlist. Dee's not your average empty head lead singer, he's actually a very smart chap and can express himself very well. I've seen him interviewed up close & even got a handshake one fine day @ 2004. He's also very business minded, so it may be a matter of $elling a licen$e to Trump to use the song, or he doesn't have control over it, one or t'other. It's also a surprise Trump would have any identification with a bunch of hard rockin' big hair girly-dress & makeup types. Maybe The Donald has secret compunctions? Nooooo...... that couldn't be!
 
loudthud 2/11/2016 7:45 PM
Snider was on Celebrity Apprentice 5 (season 12). Donald called him up and ask him, he said sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celebrity_Apprentice
 
The Dude 2/11/2016 7:50 PM
I remember when Dee testified and tore the PMRC a new a'hole. Yes, a pretty intelligent guy.
 
Justin Thomas 2/11/2016 8:12 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
! If John was still alive he'd do an "El Kabong" on The Donald. )
Prolly with a Tele, not that wimpy old Casino... >:O

Justin
 
rjb 2/11/2016 11:14 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
The Rolling Stones are PO'd because Trump is using there songs at Railies.
Trump included Stones songs like "You Can’t Always Get What You Want” and "Brown Sugar" on a self-curated playlist used at various campaign stops, the New Yorker reported. Apparently, "the more inappropriate for a political event, the better.

Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
Must not be any appropriate Nugent songs.
"Wang Dang Sweet Poontang" would be as appropriate as "Brown Sugar".

Or maybe this, just for the title

 
Leo_Gnardo 2/12/2016 6:57 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Stranglehold maybe?
No matter what he may play or what he says, whenever The Donald appears all I can think of is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFy33mBA0lc

Pardon me for re running this classic. This version has an appropriate video accompaniment. Some of it shows our soldiers/marines in Afghanistan, guarding the sacred cash crop. Note very amusing coordination of music with video in the last few seconds!
 
tedmich 2/12/2016 11:19 AM
Paul Krugman has an interesting view on all the anti-establishment sentiment in both political parties this election

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/op...pgtype=article
 
rjb 2/12/2016 11:26 AM
Free-associating: Geography, Song Titles & Bands
Donald's theme song, by classic New York band


One degree of separation (Good Rats with Dee Snyder)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hozAuHAyqDI
 
tedmich 2/12/2016 11:36 AM
Ted Cruz's theme song?
 
big_teee 2/12/2016 11:38 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
Prolly with a Tele, not that wimpy old Casino... >:O

Justin
An Ash Tele with a Ash neck, in the 10lb range would have to hurt!
That would be more Keith Richards Style! :<)
T
**BTW
IMO, what a Crappy bunch of Sounding Songs you guys just listed!
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/12/2016 12:02 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
An Ash Tele with a Ash neck, in the 10lb range would have to hurt! That would be more Keith Richards Style! :<)
Eggs-ackly what I had in mind, just like my Tele bass. Ought to put a nice big square dent in his toupée.

**BTW What a bunch of Crappy Sounding Songs you guys just listed!
This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFy33mBA0lc

Whaddya mean Terry? It's repetitive, annoying, cheap toy piano rhythm, and that guitar solo - purposely played way bad, awful tone innit? and the lyrics? suits The Donald perfectly! Don't be lookin' for art here, there ain't any. Except maybe the video accompaniment, fits the song too. As a statement, I ♥ it!
 
rjb 2/12/2016 12:21 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
...suits The Donald perfectly! Don't be lookin' for art here, there ain't any.
Same here.
I just think the flippant sarcasm of Coo Coo Coo Blues' chorus ("Since your face can stop a clock, I'll call you coo coo coo") typifies NYC demeanor.

And educational. I bet lots of folks think Twisted Sister came from LA.

EDIT:

Way back, general consensus said Twisted Sister was a silly novelty act and Good Rats were gonna make it big.
Judging Good Rats by Coo Coo Coo Blues would be like judging Zappa by Valley Girl & Sheik Yerbouti.
/
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/12/2016 12:43 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
I bet lots of folks think Twisted Sister came from LA.
Late 70's the band I was mixin' for, always in the same venues a week before or a week after TS. No way to match 'em, the crowd was NUTS about 'em. Good Rats too, they threw buckets of rubber rats into the audience for a gag. Had some good LP's out too: "Rat City in Blue" f'rinstance. Peppi Marchello said "I learned a lot from our first record contract." Whazzat Peppi? "Be careful & make sure I get a lawyer to vet our next contract." Peppi had a long black squared-off beard that made Fidel Castro's look like 5 o'clock shadow. Good band!
 
tedmich 2/12/2016 1:05 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post


Way back, general consensus said Twisted Sister was a silly novelty act and Good Rats were gonna make it big.
Judging Good Rats by Coo Coo Coo Blues would be like judging Zappa by Valley Girl & Sheik Yerbouti.
/

Twisted Sister->Mark "The Animal" Mendoza->The Dictators with Ross the Boss-> ManoWar!

Handsome Dick Manitoba = Trump ??
 
rjb 2/12/2016 1:16 PM


Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Late 70's the band I was mixin' for, always in the same venues a week before or a week after TS.

Maybe '76-77 I saw Good Rats and Twisted Sister on a double bill in a cinderblock-walled dive where you were over-dressed if you changed your coveralls after working all day in a grease pit.

Peppi paced the front of the stage, swinging an aluminum bat to keep the crowd at bay.

I was totally perplexed by Twisted Sister- a bunch of guys in garish drag, their wives and underage kids sitting at the bar. At the end of their first set, one of the musicians loudly berated the lighting guy for missing his cues. In the mean time, the acoustics were so bad that all you could hear was a constant indistinct roar.

Ah, the good old days!

/
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/12/2016 1:27 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post

I was totally perplexed by Twisted Sister- a bunch of guys in garish drag, their wives and underage kids sitting at the bar. At the end of their first set, one of the musicians loudly berated the lighting guy for missing his cues. In the mean time, the acoustics were so bad that all you could hear was a constant indistinct roar.
The sound a constant indistinct roar, and they berate the light man. Sure, that makes sense, not. But . . . that's rock n roll. Hell our light man was usually found nose down on his control board. Them was the days - of Quaaludes dudes, Rorer 714. Never did 'em, what was the point? It's embarrassing to wake up with knob imprints on your face.

/
 
rjb 2/12/2016 2:32 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
The sound a constant indistinct roar, and they berate the light man. Sure, that makes sense, not.
A matter of priorities, I guess.

Or maybe a matter of feeling out of control, so obsessing on things that can be controlled.

What are you gonna do about a lousy room- hang quilts on the walls and tell the crowd to shut up so you can play at reasonable stage volume?
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/12/2016 3:32 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post


A matter of priorities, I guess.

Or maybe a matter of feeling out of control, so obsessing on things that can be controlled.

What are you gonna do about a lousy room- hang quilts on the walls and tell the crowd to shut up so you can play at reasonable stage volume?
Or do the Trump thing, have your goons & rent-a-cops remove anyone who interrupts your program from the venue. Some rock show that would be!

/
 
big_teee 2/12/2016 5:13 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Or do the Trump
Sounds like it Otter-bee a Dance!
DO THE TRUMP!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/12/2016 5:42 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Sounds like it Otter-bee a Dance!
DO THE TRUMP!
T
Like Soupy Sales' "Do the Mouse" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfO2J6Tun5I

ya just gotta follow that with "Your Brains'll Fall Out"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_k2NuGy4Q8

Finish up your Soupy set with the timeless "Pachalafaka", whistle then sing along now, they whisper it all over Turkey - Pachalafaka - it sounds so romantic and perky!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnoYMKOubjE

Now that's the sort of music I wanna hear at a Trump rally
 
rjb 2/12/2016 6:03 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Or do the Trump thing, have your goons & rent-a-cops remove anyone who interrupts your program from the venue. Some rock show that would be!
I don't know why I'm trying to be serious now, but that wouldn't have fixed the room acoustics.
This was no auditorium, concert hall, or stadium. IIRC, it was a converted service station.

But that does remind me- I once attended a George Thorogood concert at the Strand Theater in York PA, where the rent-a-cops insisted that everyone remain seated throughout the performance. GT delivered a few choice words, and encited the audience to rush the stage. No riot ensued, darn.

/
 
rjb 2/12/2016 11:53 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Twisted Sister->Mark "The Animal" Mendoza->The Dictators with Ross the Boss-> ManoWar!
I am impressed. Indeed.


Handsome Dick Manitoba = Trump ??
You left out a step.
Handsome Dick Manitoba (born Richard Blum) = meshugana = Trump
 
SpareRibs 2/13/2016 1:48 AM
Hello,
The Chosen are thinning out one by one. The Bush clan is gathering around there youngest. Mommy telling Trump to leave her baby boy alone. Reminds me of people of Mayberry going to Mt. pilot. Its getting better and better.
 
tedmich 2/14/2016 4:18 PM
Trump finally said it:

911 happened on Ws watch and the Iraq war was a very bad idea, justified with lies

The GOP is aghast!!

Most Americans agree with him though...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37809[/ATTACH]

Its like Bernie Madoff's brother needs him as a character reference...so sad.

see WP article here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...76b_story.html
 
SpareRibs 2/14/2016 7:31 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Trump finally said it:
911 happened on Ws watch and the Iraq war was a very bad idea, justified with lies
The GOP is aghast!!
Most Americans agree with him though...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37809[/ATTACH]
Its like Bernie Madoff's brother needs him as a character reference...so sad.
see WP article here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...76b_story.html
Hello,
As soon as Trump said it to Bush, Rubio came to Bush's defense. Bush crying about Trump berating his family. It seems to me Bush brought his family in on his own.
911 did happen on Georges watch. The war in Iraq was based on lies, as is common knowledge now.
The other point that was brought up is that convention hall was packed with Bush supporters. Hence the boo's.
 
Bill Moore 2/15/2016 9:09 AM
I was looking for someone to take a swing! (Too bad, it didn't happen!)
I thought it was great when Marco told Ted he couldn't speak spanish, and Ted challenged him, (in spanish) to tell the folks what he said.
On the other hand, I listened to some of the dems, on the way home Friday, and thought it hilarious to have the 2 berating each other, over the costs of their giveaways. Not to worry though, it seems "the rich", will surely be able to cover the free lunch!
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/15/2016 10:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
I was looking for someone to take a swing! (Too bad, it didn't happen!)
They're all laughing & hi-fiving behind the scenes. That contretemps was probably a setup.

On the other hand, I listened to some of the dems, on the way home Friday, and thought it hilarious to have the 2 berating each other, over the costs of their giveaways. Not to worry though, it seems "the rich", will surely be able to cover the free lunch!
Nah, we'll just increase the national debt a couple more trillion $. Until the tax code is brought into line, simplified, loopholes shut, and enforced, "the rich" will just continue to laugh and park their profits in the Caymans, Luxembourg & other tax havens. Then if the tax code is sorted & enforced, they'll continue anyway. Gotta make the rich richer, that's what the game's all about. Whether they want it or not. Doesn't help you & me none, does it?
 
überfuzz 2/15/2016 11:23 AM
I don't know much about North American politics, but media here in Europe undoubtedly take some interest in Thrump. The main focus being 'outrageous' quotes. In a wider perspective I think Europe as a whole would like to see US of A getting back on it's feet again. Rather sooner than later. Is Thrump your guy..?

Cheers!
 
big_teee 2/15/2016 11:26 AM
The US is on its feet.
I thought that Europe & Asia were the places that were Stumbling, and were dragging us down?
T
 
tedmich 2/15/2016 11:30 AM
US economy is dead cat bounce IMHO, only looks good compared to Europe.
 
big_teee 2/15/2016 11:37 AM
I'm a bit tired & Fatigued, over our economy suffering because we don't buy enough of China's Cheap $_!T.
I would like to see us Isolate more instead of getting bigger on world economy!
Build the wall, lock down the borders, and make and buy more from here in the U.S.
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/15/2016 11:51 AM
Quote Originally Posted by überfuzz View Post
I don't know much about North American politics, but media here in Europe undoubtedly take some interest in Thrump. The main focus being 'outrageous' quotes. In a wider perspective I think Europe as a whole would like to see US of A getting back on it's feet again. Rather sooner than later. Is Thrump your guy..?

Cheers!
Thrump (sounds like a bundle of wet newspaper hitting pavement) is our Berlusconi = playboy billionaire "businessman". He will do for USA what Berlusconi did for Italy. Some compare Thrump to Mussolini; there's some validity to that - his arm & face expressions and the way he speaks about how glorious everything's gonna be under a Thrump presidency. "I'm gonna build the military, nooooo-body's gonna mess with us!" Although we have seen no matter how strong the military, all it takes is some hijackers to turn passenger jets into missiles. Hell they even crashed one into national military headquarters, the Pentagon. Maybe Thrump can make the trains run on time.

We can stay on our feet just fine, if we didn't have some nitwits doing their best to prevent government as it should be run, and blocking any improvements. Do you have a place for our turtle-faced demon, the one who's in charge of the Senate? And a bus load of his friends?

[IMG]https://41.media.tumblr.com/d1fb6965d781b9322a7ebae8e33ec657/tumblr_nejn2xAZTR1rpznkxo1_500.jpg[/IMG]
 
SpareRibs 2/15/2016 2:24 PM
Hello,
As I mentioned in a previous post. I am sure Ted Cruz is campaigning for the late Fred Thompson's job selling reverse mortgages. That being the case I was really concerned as to what Marco could do to support himself as he is not running to keep his seat in the senate, and is not going to be President.
Then it came to me in a flash. Marco Rubio would be a shoe in for Eric Estrada's career of selling swampland in Florida. Being a long time resident he already has all the connections.
 
g1 2/15/2016 2:31 PM
Ponch is dead?
 
loudthud 2/15/2016 3:39 PM
Eric Estrada: Still kickin at age 66, lives in NYC.

Leo brings up an interesting question about the rich getting richer. Both sides claim the other side is the cause, but who is worse? As long as the government is so corrupt, it's a horse race. Everyone says they are going to fix it, but nobody does. Obama said he would raise taxes on anyone who makes over 250K, but more people are in poverty and food stamps have gone up substantially since he took office.
 
tedmich 2/15/2016 4:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
Oh, I *can* imagine a scenario for that, no need for conspiracy of any kind, simple Politics, just pulling the strings so the sheep flock (voters) go the way the shepherd wants.

You want them go to the right? ... easy, just pop a firecracker on the left (absolutely harmless to sheep, of course) and the scared flock *rushes* to the right, and viceversa.

I *see* (not *guess*) that powers-that-rule have somehow decided that women presidents may be the tickets for whatever they try to accomplish, so they pulled the proper strings (press/lobbies/financial backing/political arrangements/whatever) and suddenly women presidents popped all over the place.
Angela Merkel in Germany:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Angela_Merkel_(2008).jpg/220px-Angela_Merkel_(2008).jpg[/IMG]

Michelle Bachelet in Chile:
[IMG]http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/biografia/b/fotos/bachelet.jpg[/IMG]

our own Cristina Fernandez Kirchner in Argentina:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Cristinakirchnermensaje2010.jpg/270px-Cristinakirchnermensaje2010.jpg[/IMG]

Brazil's Dilma Rousseff:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Dilma_Rousseff_-_foto_oficial_2011-01-09.jpg/200px-Dilma_Rousseff_-_foto_oficial_2011-01-09.jpg[/IMG]

so ... why not USA running:
[IMG]http://a4.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwMDU4NTc3NDIy.jpg[/IMG]

after all USA was happy (at least Reagan and the GOP were) with:
[IMG]https://www.thatchercentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/6043-margaret-thatcher.jpg[/IMG]

It simply can't be that so many different places, all over the World, decided on such a choice, *against* their tradition, all at once within a few years which compared to History scale amounts to simultaneous

Fracking impossible if you think a little about it.

So I think simply they decided that good old USA now should have also a Woman President.

After all, USA already did the unthinkable, anything else is peanuts:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/451007105391022080/iu1f7brY_400x400.png[/IMG]

Big Problem: they never did before and probably most people would not vote a woman, even if she's the best for the job, simply based on a gut feeling .

Which is not backwards at all, legitimate concerns are:
* we *are* in trouble (on various areas)
* will she be able to solve them?
even worse:
* will she have the balls needed for that? ... won't a man ... any man be preferrable?

so she is matched to an obnoxious - ridicule - incompetent competitor ... people will rush to vote her, and be relieved to see she "wins" and will give her the benefit of the doubt whenever she takes a relatively impopular decision, shuddering about "what would he have made in this case" .

Just thinking aloud, of course.
Figureheads can be chosen with impunity as long as they get elected. Cruz in the White House just gets the 99% a little more sauce on their dogshit Sundae than with a disabled/woman/socialist/lesbian in the White House, IMHO.

If real change was possible with a single candidate, we wouldn't get to vote on it.
 
J M Fahey 2/15/2016 4:08 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I'm a bit tired & Fatigued, over our economy suffering because we don't buy enough of China's Cheap $_!T.
I would like to see us Isolate more instead of getting bigger on world economy!
Build the wall, lock down the borders, and make and buy more from here in the U.S.
T
The walls which must be closed for good are *Customs* walls, all others are negligible compared to that.
I feel very sad about American workers, really, when I see things like these:
Mind you, it's not a Political video at all (maybe because NO Political Party or candidate addresses this problem?).

I was crushed by China's *new* Industrial city (think New York scale, European sophistication ) which I had never ever heard about, and growing like crazy in the middle of nowhere, thousands of miles from, say, Beijing, Shanghai or the sea.

Over 10 million people now, growing FAST to reach 20 Million in a few years, with a rich and growing middle class while sucking the blood out of "Middletown - America" ; in this example: Rolla - Missouri :


any Presidential candidate which does not try to stop this, is just an expanded version of McD 's "crew of the day" , and with about as much real decision power.
 
big_teee 2/18/2016 10:04 AM
I like the idea of walls and tightening up on immigration.
The number 1 immigrant I would keep out, is the POPE!
IMO I would keep Him and his Biased Politics out!
No Green card for the guy in the dress and funky hat!
T
The above Opinion is strictly my own!
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/18/2016 12:00 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
The above Opinion is strictly my own!
And below is mine : today's headline

POPE CALLS THE KETTLE BLACK

Right on!

Then Trump responds: "It's disgraceful to question my Christianity."

Boo hoo, because you ain't got none Trumpy. In fact it's disgraceful to question anything The Mighty Trump says or does. No small ego here, is there?

I can't wait for the day Trump goes back to thinking about casinos.

And golf courses. BBC reports his Scottish golf resort venture is squeaking out a shilling on the pound of what Trump promised. "We can do without him" is the general sentiment, except among those few press spokesmen he's bought off. Increase in local employment is nil. Another swindle. Sing along now, "when will they ever learn?"
 
J M Fahey 2/18/2016 12:24 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I like the idea of walls and tightening up on immigration.
The number 1 immigrant I would keep out, is the POPE!
IMO I would keep Him and his Biased Politics out!
No Green card for the guy in the dress and funky hat!
T
The above Opinion is strictly my own!
I didn't say "stop the immigration" or rise walls for migrant workers .... unless you feel menaced by people who pick cotton or grapes or wash toilets ... did you lose any of those jobs?

I said: raise *Customs* "walls" (Tariff if you need it to be in plain English) , which by the way is not a "foreign" or "socialist" idea ... unless you consider Alexander Hamilton a foreign socialist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_1789
The Tariff Act of 1789, was the first major Act passed in the United States under its present Constitution of 1789 and had two purposes as stated in Section I of the Act which reads as follows;

"Whereas it is necessary for that support of government, for the discharge of the debts of the United States, and the encouragement and protection of manufactures, that duties be laid on goods, wares and merchandise:"[1]
The worker who is stealing your job is not in the patio trimming the shrubs but 8000 miles away:

just watch 3 first three minutes, it's more than enough:
 
big_teee 2/18/2016 12:55 PM
The wall on all borders is a good place to start IMO.
As far as picking tomatoes and cleaning toilets?
The wife picks the tomatoes sometimes, and the cleaning the toilets is my job.
Get your own!
T
 
Bill Moore 2/18/2016 2:13 PM
That's the problem we have now, everybody wants to pay as little as possible for a product, and the company has to find cheap labor to be able to sell it!
I used to joke with the "good union boys" when I worked with the mine about shopping at K-mart. One day the steward handed me a Steel Workers logo t-shirt, it was made in the Philippines! When I gave him grief over it, he looked in the box, and all but 2 were imported. (This was 30 yrs ago)!
Can we ever get back to protectionism with all the treaties we have in place, (and the TPP waiting?) Will Americans pay more for everything to be able to have a job?
 
SpareRibs 2/18/2016 8:07 PM
[QUOTE=Leo_Gnardo;412946]And below is mine : today's headline
POPE CALLS THE KETTLE BLACK

Hello,
The Pope is only in his position because, the last pope that retired, and went into seclusion, was in charge of the council that was given the responsibility of shuffling around a very large number of the pedophile priests.
 
tedmich 2/19/2016 7:36 PM
Here is a list of 20 celeb endorsements Trump has received:

Donald Trump's celebrity endorsements - Business Insider

I stopped at Mike Tyson...they had to include anyone who ever tweeted anything even slightly positive, Trump has very few actual endorsements from anyone well known.

Trump also praised Wendys and MacDonald's, has them delivered to his plane. He favors the McD filet-o-fish (yuck!) and explains its because he thinks McD and Wendys are the cleanest of restaurants (!?), apparently he's an an extreme germophobe, like Howie Mandel nutty.

So Trump greatly dislikes shaking hands, and when forced to he invariably does the "power pull in" move

here he attempts the pull in with the original Apprentice winner Bill Rancic


here is Mittens losing a handshake battle with Trump
[IMG]http://pixel.nymag.com/content/dam/custom/images/2012/01/02_romneytrumpshake.gif[/IMG]
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/19/2016 8:15 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Trump , apparently he's an an extreme germophobe, like Howie Mandel nutty.
Trump the germophobe, maybe like Howard Hughes nutty?

- - - - - -

Video, about 2 min. in: Jay Leno & Lady Gaga, ssssuuuuuuuure......... here's lookin' at ya! Deafinitely a secret conspiracy!

[IMG]http://www.dandelion-films.com/all-seeing-eye-pyramid-drawing-13.jpg[/IMG]

cue the music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_QRL3t9qyc
 
big_teee 2/20/2016 5:40 PM
Mark up another Primary state for the Teflon Don.
South Carolina!
Mark up another one for HRC!
Nevada!
T
 
tedmich 2/20/2016 7:51 PM
Jeb! suspended! his! candidacy!
 
SpareRibs 2/20/2016 8:43 PM
Hello,
Its getting closer to Super Tuesday !!!!!
 
big_teee 2/20/2016 11:45 PM
I may be wrong, but It is probably finished, over here on the right.
The Don won, after destroying Jeb, & George W, at the debate, and after saying who to hell cares about the pope.
Unless Rubio can come up with some voodoo magic, it looks like a done deal, but I've been wrong before!
T
 
Enzo 2/21/2016 12:00 AM
Trump is a great campaigner, I expect no less from such a hustler. Jeb! was a terrible campaigner, and it showed in his numbers.

But it is still early. A guy like Kasich early on was a "who the hell is that?" sort of guy. Now that the chaff has started to blow away, all of a sudden, he is looking more like a viable candidate. Is anyone still listening to Carson? Rubio is nice looking, but I think really not up to the big boy level in this fight.

Just my opinion, but I think Sanders is artificially popular. I think he is something to "get into", a bandwagon to hop on, but not a strong ideal. And he has baggage, he is a avowed socialist after all. I am not concerned over that, but socialist is still a bad word for many people. I think he fades to Hillary. But he at least is making her campaign for the spot.
 
tedmich 2/21/2016 10:00 AM
Jeb! Bush is reported (NYT) as being largely undone by making his #1 adviser (Mike Murphy) the head his $100M SuperPAC. In this position Murphy is prohibited by law from coordinating or communicating with the Jeb! Campaign. And it also left the Jeb! Campaign with no one who could direct Jeb! from his missteps, like Karl Rove could for W. Remember Cheney was in the loop super early for W keeping him from humping the furniture etc. Jeb! in a sense was too "smart" to allow himself to be molded into this years GOP meatloaf...an angry and reality TV based meatloaf.

Jeb! actually had a campaign playbook, named "The Playbook" written by adviser Sally Bradshaw and Murphy and when it proved a very poor fit for the GOP electorate in 2016 they couldn't collaborate on a rewrite. And Jebs wife Columba reportedly didn't like him spending so much time with blond southern belle Bradshaw.

Jeb spent $33M per delegate won
 
big_teee 2/21/2016 10:41 AM
Jeb was too nice and Trump Crushed him in the first debate.
Between being crushed and having the wrong last name?
He could not overcome those obstacles.
IMO after Super Tues. the stage will be set.
I suspect it will be Trump and Hillary.
What a mud slinging 5 months or so, that will be!
T
 
SpareRibs 2/21/2016 12:32 PM
Hello,
Jeb was delusional, he was under the impression, (IT WAS HIS TURN). Does anyone remember how long he kept up the facade of making his decision, he hadn't decided, yet all the time raking in money.
The millions spent by his campaign staff stroking his ego.
He was going to appoint the same people to the same positions as his brother. So we would be looking at the same people different war.
Remember the saying that is common on this forum, You can't polish a turd.
 
Steve A. 2/22/2016 11:16 AM
>>> Joe Dolpies (a Cruz volunteer in Nevada) saw a Republican voter walking onto his driveway and asked who he was supporting Tuesday.
“Yeah, I’m going to be there (Tuesday), but you don’t want to talk to me, I’m one of those crazy Trump people,” the white-haired man told Dolpies as he walked toward him.
“I’m not going to give you the hard sell,” Dolpies responded. “But why are you supporting Trump?”
“Because he says this,” the man said, thrusting his middle fingers skyward, “to everybody.” <<<

Trump?s brassy style may face tougher odds in Nevada - San Francisco Chronicle

IMO that is understandable but not exactly the best reason to elect a President who could just as easily flip off many of the citizens who voted for him (in addition to the Hispanics, Muslims, et al, who he has already told to f*ck off.)

Steve A.
 
big_teee 2/22/2016 11:31 AM
Trump is gaining steam, and is big in Nevada.
I predict after March 1 (Super Tuesday), it will all be sewn up for Trump, and Clinton.
T
 
tedmich 2/22/2016 11:32 AM
The GOP is completely without a realistic scapegoat for this years election, immigration from Mexico is considerably lower than it was in years past. The idea that you should blame the powerful people for what happens in a country is anathema to the modern GOP. Traditionally the people in power blame the people not in power; the only people holding down poor whites is (even poorer) minorities.

Since its patently obvious that the world is the way it is because the people in power WANT it to be this way the GOP can only attack the supposedly powerful entity of the Government, not corporations or wealthy people. Its a classic bait and switch. The contradiction is that then you are stuck with asking the sheeple to elect a non political person (since Government is the only acknowledged powerful evil).

The Dems already tried this, they elected the lesser of two (necessarily political) evils; the freshman minority senator over the party royalist.

The GOP seemingly has priced themselves entirely out of the game; all evil resides in Government so you can only elect a non politician: TRUMP.
They're hoping they can again bait and switch by swapping out Trump for
a)a politician hated by all other politicians (Cruz)
Or
b) a political nonentity (Rubio)

As long as the 99.9% don't F with the 0.1% everything else is entirely negotiable.
 
Steve A. 2/22/2016 11:33 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
Just my opinion, but I think Sanders is artificially popular. I think he is something to "get into", a bandwagon to hop on, but not a strong ideal. And he has baggage, he is a avowed socialist after all. I am not concerned over that, but socialist is still a bad word for many people. I think he fades to Hillary. But he at least is making her campaign for the spot.
I agree. "Social Democrat" would be much easier for Middle America to swallow than "Democratic Socialist." Here is a letter to the editor in yesterday's Chronicle...

READERS' LETTERS: Bernie won’t win [SF Chron 02/21/2016]
• We are living in interesting and dangerous political times. If only the drumbeat of idealism could radically change human behavior and heal the ills of American society! The message and forthrightness of Sen. Bernie Sanders and the prominent politicos and academicians of the Bay Area such as Willie Brown and Robert Reich, are appealing to many, both young and old.
• However, we live in times when progressive realism, not utopia, may help further a reasonable program of social justice for the middle and lower classes. By weakening the candidacy of Hillary Clinton, the ultra-liberal wing of the Democratic Party is chasing a wild dream, the likes of which this country has already lived and regretted in the fall of 1972.
• The messianic zeal of Sanders, though appealing to our Bay Area liberal political instincts, is hardly suited for the complex political realities of the American heartland. America did not “come home” with George Mc-Govern in 1972 and it won’t with Sanders in 2016. The nightmare is that it will go to Washington with Trump, instead.
••• Eugenio Frongia, Berkeley
I would like the strongest candidate to be nominated but I do hope that the Democratic Party adopts some of the ideas from Sanders and Warren for their platform. IMO Sanders is too much of an idealist as most of his ideas are long term goals rather than legislation to propose in 2017 to deal with our immediate problems. Like his criticism of Obamacare and support for single payer health insurance- I expect "Medicare for All" to eventually happen but at this time Obamacare is the best that the left wing can hope for.

Steve A. (a true blue progressive realist)
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/22/2016 11:59 AM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
The GOP is completely without a realistic scapegoat for this years election, immigration from Mexico is considerably lower than it was in years past.
At this point Mexican immigration is now in the opposite direction.

I predict building the "Wall along the Mexican border" will be another unfulfilled campaign promise, never mind having Mexico pay for it. Check in 4 years from now, let's see how well that one goes.

In fact I fully expect should Trump be elected president, 4 years from now we'll find Vice President (whose name we don't yet know) or some other individual having taken over the position. Even scarier than President Trump.
 
big_teee 2/22/2016 12:04 PM
Did you see trumps tax plan proposal a while back?
It is more of the same from the right.
The rich pay less, and the poor pay more.
When Trump and Clinton get to going on their campaign war?
It should be interesting to see what each can promise us!
Also I think Trump scares the republicans as much as he does the Democrats?
The Koch brothers, all the rich contributors are scared as hell too!
T
 
tedmich 2/22/2016 12:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Also I think Trump scares the republicans as much as he does the Democrats?
The Koch brothers, all the rich contributors are scared as hell too!
T
which is why I expect the GOP leadership to quickly coalesce behind Marco Rubio, and then push for him as VP if Trump goes on to win. Most believe Trump will be an absentee President (more so than even W*) and they can definitely work with that.

* by several tallies W spent 1,020 days at Camp David/Texas Ranch and Bush Family estate in Kennebunkport, more than 1/3 of his presidency and when in Washington spent a large percentage of his time working out.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/22/2016 1:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
which is why I expect the GOP leadership to quickly coalesce behind Marco Rubio, and then push for him as VP if Trump goes on to win. Most believe Trump will be an absentee President (more so than even W) and they can definitely work with that.
Oh boy, while Trump luxuriates on his yachts, golf courses & upscale properties, can you see Mr. "No Experience" Ruby-o running things as VP, or trying to, the way Dick Cheney did? Talk about Mickey running the broom... we'll be in for a world of hurt.

[IMG]http://www.cornel1801.com/disney/Fantasia-1940/film3_3.jpg[/IMG]
 
tedmich 2/22/2016 1:16 PM
Rubio will be in the Palin mold; a Tea Party Sop to the angry troglodyte wing of the Party. Its doubtful Donald would fall for a Cheney power grab. If you'll remember Cheney was originally the GOP elder statesman who was supposed to choose Ws running mate, it was only after much reflection he decided that he himself was the most qualified.

I use this as a template for all GOP decisions:

Q Times are bad, who deserves a tax cut???
A Why, I deserve a tax cut!!

Q Times are good, who deserves a tax cut???
A Ditto!!

Q Who needs financial assistance form the Government??
A Hey, that's me again!

Q Whats a compromise that could reach across the aisle and keep the country moving forward??
A My parties stated agenda, verbatim!

at least they're consistent?
 
Bill Moore 2/22/2016 4:10 PM
That sounds like the democrat template for sure!
Compromise with democrats=surrender principles by republicans, anything else in not a compromise as far as democrats are concerned!
Change the senate rules to ram through a lot of stalled democrat priorities, of course I would have kept the rules in place to get a few things done, but not the republicans!
Immigration is down, only for election purposes, nothing is changed, (the border agents were told to stand down.)
Immigrant Population Hits Record 42.1 Million in Second Quarter of 2015 | Center for Immigration Studies
And then there's this:
Obama Administration Enabling Noncitizen Voting; DOJ Conflict of Interest
 
loudthud 2/22/2016 5:30 PM
Here's some spending numbers through the end of January.

Total $682 Million

Trump $24 Million
Rubio $76 Million
Cruz $60 Million
Bush $125 Million

Sanders $82 Million
Clinton $101 Million
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/22/2016 7:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Here's some spending numbers through the end of January.

Total $682 Million

Trump $24 Million
Rubio $76 Million
Cruz $60 Million
Bush $125 Million

Sanders $82 Million
Clinton $101 Million
I see $468 mil listed, does that mean the "minor leaguers" spent $214 mil? Well hey big spenders, spend a couple mil with me!
 
Steve A. 2/22/2016 7:36 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
That sounds like the democrat template for sure!
Compromise with democrats=surrender principles by republicans, anything else in not a compromise as far as democrats are concerned!
I look forward to the day when both parties reach across the aisle to arrive at compromises which was how Congress operated for many years. I welcome the fiscal responsibility of the old GOP to balance out the overly-generous social programs of the old left wing (something I did not appreciate back in the day.) I think that the best legislation were compromises between the two parties, like how food stamps were linked to farm bills in the 70's (actually a compromise between the urban and rural districts which lasted for 40 years. RIP)

Steve A.
 
big_teee 2/23/2016 9:59 PM
Trump wins big in Nevada!
T
 
tedmich 2/25/2016 2:50 PM
With an excerpt on Politico
Sabermetrics pioneer: There aren?t enough 'morons' to elect Trump - POLITICO

and a write up in Forbes,
Forbes Welcome

Bill James of Sabremetrics Baseball fame, has an interesting take on Trump, and the election:

"I’m not saying “screw the Europeans” or “to hell with Asia”; what I am saying is that the United States President needs to do what is best for America, without any concern whatsoever for what the Europeans or the Asians or the Mexicans think. I believe in the old phrase “Tough Shit” or, as we used to say to our kids about fourteen times a day, “Tough Bananas”. (Sometimes we would say “Tough Cookies” or “Tough Toenails”, just for variety.) You don’t like Guantanamo? Tough Shit. The rest of the world doesn’t approve of Water Boarding? Tough Shit.

That, I think, is what Donald Trump is saying, mixed in with a lot of lies and half-truths and stupid self-promotion, but that’s the kernel of it. I’ll vote for anybody that you put up against him, but neither do I believe that everything he says is untrue or is without merit. He’s on to something. Hopefully somebody who isn’t The Donald will be smart enough to pick up on it."

whole essay here
Trump. As in Rump. | Articles | Bill James Online
 
Mark Hammer 2/25/2016 4:20 PM
It's easy to point fingers, Juan. It bears noting, though, that a lot of those "stolen jobs" were provided by non-Chinese manufacturers and jobbers, eager to provide cheap goods for western consumers who wanted them, and eager to provide high returns for investors and especially western pension funds and insurance companies. I feel pretty confident in saying that Uli Behringer is probably not selling all those mixers, Bugera amps, and stompboxes Asian kids. He took a German company and relocated it to China to sell stuff to his usual European and North American customers.

And, as an academic economist I heard interviewed shortly after the Paris climate talks noted, people blame China for greenhouse gases, but a lot of those factories are churning it out at the behest of western factory owners.

It's complicated, and unfortunately we're implicated morethan we'd like to admit or accept.
 
ThermionicScott 2/25/2016 4:21 PM
I get a little concerned when people say things like "there aren't enough morons to elect ____" because it doesn't matter how many morons there are if the smart people stay home on voting day.
 
loudthud 2/25/2016 4:52 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I get a little concerned when people say things like "there aren't enough morons to elect ____" because it doesn't matter how many morons there are if the smart people stay home on voting day.
When only about one in three eligible voters show up to the poles, any crowd of morons can swing the vote as long as they outnumber the morons on the other side. That's how Obama got in. Romney didn't inspire enough morons to get to the poles.

Rubio has TV ads running here and I've been hearing Cruz on the radio.

Just remember, because of the expected high turnout, Republicans vote on Tuesday, Democrats vote on Wednesday.
 
big_teee 2/25/2016 6:18 PM
I thought it was the other way around.
Dems March 1, and GOP on March 2, or maybe march 32.
T
 
tedmich 2/25/2016 6:55 PM
New numbers state that of $215M of GOP Super PAC spent on negative ads only 9% were against Trump. GOP can't bring themselves to attack Trump, for whatever reason.
 
The Dude 2/25/2016 7:09 PM
Could it be they thought no one in their right mind would support his rhetoric and that he would be his own undoing? I suspect, at least early on, they didn't think they needed to waste their money. Why they didn't change their playbook after he "caught on" is, indeed, a mystery.
 
tedmich 2/25/2016 7:14 PM
"Don't wrestle with a pig, you get all muddy and the pig likes it"

Candidates, even from dynasties like Bush, think that initially they have to introduce themselves in a positive way to the American people, then they go about tearing down their opponents from a position of virtue.

Trump needed no introduction, the average American thinks they know him as well as Kim Kardashian or Snooky or one of the "Real Housewives"
Donald just said "I am my media persona" and cut to the chase attacking the as yet unformed public image of the other candidates and leaving the party establishment completely flat footed.

The conventional wisdom in politics believes in "game plans" and "Play Books" but that's only if there are rules everyone agrees on. Rules are for games, kill or be killed fights have no rules.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/25/2016 9:01 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I thought it was the other way around.
Dems March 1, and GOP on March 2, or maybe march 32.
T
31st of Febrilary.

Better double check, disinformation will leave you not voting as you planned. Sometimes it's done on porpoise. It's been done in this town, phone calls telling voters that voting would be on Wednesday instead of Tuesday. It wasn't. And of course the same ol' crooks got elected. We're about to do it again, a good old Soviet election with no contest for trustees & judge.
 
Enzo 2/25/2016 11:56 PM
I always vote, OK, so keep that in mind.

Let us say the front runners are the two tickets this fall. Now we have the people who would NEVER vote for Hillary on the Democrat side. But then they have to face the fact that the alternative is to vote Trump. ANd the republicans who just cannot bring themselves to vote Trump, are faced with the hemlock of voting Hillary. Why should we wonder they stay home on election day? In droves.

The last 40 years, I lived in rural Michigan, which is so right wing, we usually had republicans running unopposed on the local and county level. And our congressional rep was so far ahead of the sacrificial democrat that there was not the slightest hope I might find my views represented. SO I can vote for president and senator, but most other elective offices there is no point in my voting. I do anyway, but often leave those unopposed assholes unchecked. Not that it affects them. I can vote on things like renewal of school millage or 911 tax. No wonder my neighbors stay home.

Sure someone always likes to point out some election where a guy lost by a vote, and he never took the time to vote for himself. But this ain't that, and in fact almost never is.

People, especially young people, know that whoever they vote for, their own circumstances won't change much. So they have the option of voting just to please their civics teacher (they still teach that, don't they), or stay home and play Wii.
 
J M Fahey 2/26/2016 5:13 AM
FWIW eventually *who* wins will not matter that much.

Fact (not "finger pointing" ) says that now China has MORE billionaires than USA

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcCMdNtW8AAmM0s.jpg[/IMG]

Fueled by "occidental billionaires" (not only USA ones) of course, who apparently:
a) are beaten at their own game by obviously better players
b) are so blinded by greed that they lose awareness of the situation
c) all of the above

China defeats US to have most number of billionaires in 2016, India No.3 | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
 
big_teee 2/26/2016 7:48 AM
I always vote for main elections.
I don't always vote on millage and small elections.
I try to download the ballot, so I know who is on it.
If you don't research ahead of time, then you end up not knowing who is who.
Normally if I don't know who is on the ballot I vote for the democrat.
That doesn't help in a primary though, where they are all in the same party.
I can vote easily, a 1/4 mile down the road at the local Methodist church.
So, I will go vote mid day tuesday.
The big decision for most of us is which party gets to appoint the Supreme court Justices.
If you want judges that have Ideology of the 1950s, then go GOP.
If you want judges that protect all (Equal Marriage, Abortion rights, equal pay, minimum wage, etc.), then vote Democrat.
Right now I'm leaning toward the latter.
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/26/2016 8:06 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
If you want judges that have Ideology of the 50s, then go GOP.
1850's? 1750's? 1650's? . . . heck just the 50's - Caligula for president. Keep up with the score: Lions 3, Christians nothing. Whatever keeps the crowd happy, bread and circuses.

Caligula appointed his horse to the Senate. What an improvement we have all these years later: a horse's ass in charge of the Senate.

I'll bet Scalia would be delighted to see what a mess he stirred up by croaking, that scamp.
 
big_teee 2/26/2016 8:12 AM
I wasn't alive then, I was referring to the 1950s.
T
 
tedmich 2/26/2016 9:11 AM
Here is another analysis from the WP

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mepage%2Fstory

in spite of the obvious condescension of calling Trump's campaign "Captain Underpantsian" the analysis of how simple his communications to the electorate are is still quite valid. The word score for his Nevada speeches was firmly at a 2nd grade level.

This is all to Bill James' point: he is communicating very directly without your typical political filter.
 
loudthud 2/26/2016 11:10 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I thought it was the other way around.
Dems March 1, and GOP on March 2, or maybe march 32.
T
That was 2012. This year it's the other way 'round.

Who was is that said nobody ever lost an election because they underestimating the intelligence of the American voter?
 
tedmich 2/26/2016 12:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
"Cosi fan tutte" iow "they're all like that." In past campaigns McCain & all the rest talked a good line about security, even Obama. Heck the 'bammer even promised to shut down Guantanamo. LG's theory, no, truth of Presidency: "you don't find out until you've taken the oath of office, how little power you really have." 7 years later, Guantanamo still going. You need the support of the perfumed princes of the pentagon, plus Congress & many others to really get anything done.

From wiki, Charisma = (1) compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others, (2) a divinely conferred power or talent. Mmmm, a word much misused. Neither 1 nor 2 seen in Trump. Charm, you gotta be kidding. Divinely conferred, ditto. Another definition, from The Curmudgeon's Dictionary: "living in a state of unearned grace." Yeh, that's more like it.

How's about some campaign music for our karizmatik kooky kandidate, give him LOTS of what he really wants, loop this in loud lo-fi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk
Deborah Evans-Strickland is available for vocal work!
Deborah Evans-Stickland - VOICES
 
big_teee 2/26/2016 12:29 PM
It also grandfathers from 2012 to 2016.
Dems on Mar. 1, GOPs on Mar. 2.
 
ThermionicScott 2/26/2016 12:36 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Here is another analysis from the WP

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mepage%2Fstory

in spite of the obvious condescension of calling Trump's campaign "Captain Underpantsian" the analysis of how simple his communications to the electorate are is still quite valid. The word score for his Nevada speeches was firmly at a 2nd grade level.

This is all to Bill James' point: he is communicating very directly without your typical political filter.
At the risk of sounding very condescending, it sounds like there could be a maturity factor at play: Trump support correlates strongly with authoritarianism as well, so perhaps he appeals to the need we had as kids for strong adults who were in control and spoke to us as children.
 
tedmich 2/26/2016 1:35 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
At the risk of sounding very condescending, it sounds like there could be a maturity factor at play: Trump support correlates strongly with authoritarianism as well, so perhaps he appeals to the need we had as kids for strong adults who were in control and spoke to us as children.
I think its a response to the realization that since electing someone with the best of purported intentions (Obama) has zero impact on the trajectory of our country, you might as well elect the diametric opposite: someone with no demonstrated characteristics other than self interest.

Self righteous do-gooder or narcissistic megalomaniac? The system can work with whatever image extreme the sad electorate decides to lurch toward.

Bernie doubles down on the Obama fallacy, Trump introduces extra-political reality TV savy to the mix.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37995[/ATTACH]

Authoritarianism is too broad a concept. The modern GOP has strong Libertarian slant, they hate authority when it curtails their self interest but love it when it mirrors their own greed and bias. Humans in general (myself included) love it when authority tells them they are righteous, good and correct just as they are, no pesky reflection or reasoning required. Everything bad is external, everything good is within you.
 
loudthud 2/26/2016 3:22 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Who was is that said nobody ever lost an election because they underestimating the intelligence of the American voter?
Hey, I quoted myself

The actual quote of H. L. Mencken is:

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

From Chicago Daily Tribune, September 19, 1926


 
Leo_Gnardo 2/26/2016 3:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
At the risk of sounding very condescending, it sounds like there could be a maturity factor at play: Trump support correlates strongly with authoritarianism as well, so perhaps he appeals to the need we had as kids for strong adults who were in control and spoke to us as children.
Trump did say how much he luuuuvs the uneducated, morning after his Nevada sweep.

As far as the need we had as kids, please leave me out of that "we". First I'm grown up now and don't need to be led around by an obvious jerk. You know who. And second, when I was a kid I had an ability to figure out which adults were jerks and which weren't, much to the chagrin of a lot of adult "authority figures."

So let's say Trump appeals to those who like to be led around by the nose, and don't care if the one doing the leading is obviously a jerk.

Starting today add Chris Christie to the list of so-called "authority" grownup jerks. (Though he was already on that list.) He's grown out, I'll give him that. Grow up, I doubt he ever will.
 
ThermionicScott 2/26/2016 4:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Trump did say how much he luuuuvs the uneducated, morning after his Nevada sweep.

As far as the need we had as kids, please leave me out of that "we". First I'm grown up now and don't need to be led around by an obvious jerk. You know who. And second, when I was a kid I had an ability to figure out which adults were jerks and which weren't, much to the chagrin of a lot of adult "authority figures."

So let's say Trump appeals to those who like to be led around by the nose, and don't care if the one doing the leading is obviously a jerk.

Starting today add Chris Christie to the list of so-called "authority" grownup jerks. (Though he was already on that list.) He's grown out, I'll give him that. Grow up, I doubt he ever will.
That's fair. I was trying to go for brevity.
 
big_teee 2/26/2016 4:10 PM
One of the things that appeals to trump supporters, is his defiance.
It's the belligerence, defiance, and anger that is part of the appeal.
You may not get it, but a lot do.
T
 
ThermionicScott 2/26/2016 4:13 PM
For sure. He is a master at work.
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/26/2016 5:45 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
One of the things that appeals to trump supporters, is his defiance.
It's the belligerence, defiance, and anger that is part of the appeal.
You may not get it, but a lot do.
T
I "get" it all right. And I'm not impressed. Lotta kids were acting like that in the 50's, 60's, 70's & I'm sure right up to now. I interpret that behavior as immature. It's been mentioned by some commentators, Trump's the spoiled rotten kid nobody ever said "no" to. One of these days he will get his comeuppance. Would be nice if he doesn't get the rest of us involved.
 
big_teee 2/26/2016 6:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Would be nice if he doesn't get the rest of us involved.
Good Luck with that!
T
 
tedmich 2/26/2016 10:49 PM
HILARIOUS attempts at naming Rubio as 2nd/3rd place WINNER on my favorite
radio show NPRs On the Media

Second Comes Right After First! - On The Media

spin machine is going CRAZY!!
 
Leo_Gnardo 2/27/2016 4:47 AM
Saturday morning cartoons: President Chump announces he wants to roll back the first amendment so he can "sue them (the media) when they say nasty things and lie about him, and make lots of money!" To cheering crowd, of course. Yes, we'd be delighted to have you take away our Freedom of Speech.

Awww, is widdle Donnie gettin' sensitive now? What's he got to worry about, he's going to be the next president and everybody knows it. Might as well get sworn in right now.
 
tedmich 2/27/2016 12:58 PM
Amazing article documenting GOP cluster f**k trying to conspire against Trump.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us...can-party.html

Mitch McChinless* actually thinks they can freeze out Trump in the convention!!

Or they'll run a tidal wave of negative Trump ads in the general to win congress/governors races! Talk about cutting off your nose...

PS they hate him for all the wrong reasons IMHO. I'm beginning to think big money (left or right) would prefer Hillary to Trump!

*Props to Stephanie Miller
 
g1 2/27/2016 2:33 PM
Funny (and cynical) piece here, not sure if the conclusion is unfortunate or not:
Donald Trump could promise to personally sodomise all his supporters and they'd still vote for him | Voices | The Independent
 
big_teee 2/27/2016 9:23 PM
I also read on several different sources today that Mitch Mcconnell would help Clinton to defeat Trump.
Thinking that would help the GOP maintain control of the house and senate.
Wow they must really hate that guy.
Panicking Mitch McConnell Says GOP Will Help Hillary Beat Trump If He Wins The Nomination
 
SpareRibs 2/27/2016 10:12 PM
Hello,
With Weenie Rubio shortly to become toast, then comes the Canadian Holy Roller, both should be out in a few short weeks. Weenie Rubio is running out of money, There is a lawsuit pending in Illinois questioning the Canadian Holly Rollers validity to run for the office.
So after Donald Trump gets the Republican nomination and, blows the election as a favor to Hillary, things will be just swell.
 
big_teee 2/29/2016 11:02 AM
Trump is now polling nationally at 49%.
RealClearPolitics - 2016 Latest Polls
The more the party and establishment bash him, and back Cruz and Rubio, the more Trumps Poll Numbers go up?
They thought they could discredit him with racism, and the KKK, and his numbers just went up some more.
The GOP is saying O-Sh*t, what have we let happen.
The song "Train kept a rollin", comes to mind!

 
tedmich 2/29/2016 11:04 AM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
Hello,
With Weenie Rubio shortly to become toast, then comes the Canadian Holy Roller, both should be out in a few short weeks. Weenie Rubio is running out of money,
I have to think that the GOP's establishment candidate will NEVER run out of money; the Super PACs alone have ready access to billions. I mean Marco does have a bit of a history of not being money smart but the resources are all there.
 
SpareRibs 2/29/2016 12:28 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
I have to think that the GOP's establishment candidate will NEVER run out of money; the Super PACs alone have ready access to billions. I mean Marco does have a bit of a history of not being money smart but the resources are all there.
Hello,
Money on hand and money controlled by super pac's is supposed to be (ha,ha,ha) separate.
 
Bill Moore 2/29/2016 1:11 PM
Even the wicked witch may be in trouble!
Hillary could lose to Trump in Democratic New York | New York Post
 
big_teee 3/1/2016 1:11 PM
I'm done with the Super Tuesday Primary.
My wife Sharon & I just got back from voting.
It was a busy turnout, but the new machines worked flawlessly.
It was like using a paper ballot.
You stick your ballot in the machine, make your choices then print.
Then take your printed ballot, and put it in another machine to tally the vote.
Pretty Slick!
T
 
Bill Moore 3/1/2016 1:22 PM
A few years back they "improved" our ballots back to coloring an oval with a pencil! You then run it through a scanner to record the vote.
Seems the (fast, and easy), mechanized machines were able to be re-programmed with very little effort.
 
tedmich 3/1/2016 1:53 PM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38061[/ATTACH]
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/1/2016 4:53 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Seems the (fast, and easy), mechanized machines were able to be re-programmed with very little effort.
Indeed they were. I showed up early to the voting room at local firehouse one fine day in March 1998, and found the challenger for the mayor's office with his arm in the back of the voting machine, all the way up to his shoulder. Too bad it wasn't a guillotine. His 'adjustments' failed: he lost that election too. You should have seen him that evening after the vote count, he was fit to be tied, seriously ready for the funny farm. It really is a shame when the cheater still loses in spite of his cheating.
 
tedmich 3/1/2016 5:46 PM
 
tedmich 3/1/2016 6:24 PM
Here is a parade of GOP Party Intellectuals describing how Trump came to eat their Teaparty Lunch



what a bunch of tools, they totally deserve Trump, we don't but they sure do...
 
tedmich 3/1/2016 7:15 PM
Rubio has dissed Trump's hands recently (no really, google it)

I wanted to state that Trumps hands are not overly small, just oddly proportioned.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38065[/ATTACH]
like the pyknic hand shown here
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38064[/ATTACH]

with a big square palm and relatively short fingers (in the context of a big square palm)

He is apparently quite sensitive about them.
Donald Trump sent Vanity Fair editor Graydon Carter pictures of his hands | Daily Mail Online

Thin skinned and vain are not qualities that you'd think beneficial to a President

It appears Cruz will take OK and TX!
While Rubio is winning 3rd place almost everywhere!
 
SpareRibs 3/1/2016 8:49 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Here is a parade of GOP Party Intellectuals describing how Trump came to eat their Teaparty Lunch
what a bunch of tools, they totally deserve Trump, we don't but they sure do...
Hello,
Bill Cristal is currently the biggest tool I've ever seen. He is an absolute imbecile, another idiot is John Bolton. He weighs in on every thing pertaining to war, his only tie to the Government is he was an ambassador to the UN.
OH YEAH, Trump is on his way. Today Paul Ryan tried to call his self, Dressing Trump down. Paul Ryan apparently doesn't know a lot about elections with his and Romney's big flop.
 
tedmich 3/1/2016 10:50 PM
Rubio made a Trump penis joke before Super Tuesday. It may have helped...several real comedians are giving advice on how to attack Trump here:
Comedians Give Marco Rubio Advice On How To Roast Donald Trump
 
tedmich 3/1/2016 11:02 PM
Cruz quoted both FDR and RFK withing 30 seconds during his Speech tonight,

I expected him to burst into flames!
 
Bill Moore 3/2/2016 9:04 AM
Come on tedmich, prior to 1968, the democrat party wasn't a bad word! Most of my relatives were democrats, but have always been conservative. When the party turned left, they, and many others, started voting, (mostly), republican.
 
big_teee 3/2/2016 9:14 AM
Rubio got further in the gutter than Trump.
He did himself no favors!
I don't like Cruz, but he did stay on message better than Rubio.
Arkansas was a Democrat state for years.
After the election of Obama it is now a very Red state.
T
 
tedmich 3/2/2016 9:30 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Come on tedmich, prior to 1968, the democrat party wasn't a bad word! Most of my relatives were democrats, but have always been conservative. When the party turned left, they, and many others, started voting, (mostly), republican.
Just "Ted" is fine Bill!

I'd make the observation that the current GOP (you in common with Cruz) can't even bring themselves to say the name of the Democratic party.And FDRs polices are not as far from the current Democratic candidates, while I'd argue Donald Trump would be unrecognizable to many previous GOP leaders, Eisenhower etc etc.
 
Bill Moore 3/2/2016 9:50 AM
The GOP has been under construction for quite a while, all the way back to Goldwater! I believe the majority are now working class people, not the elites!
Pat has an interesting take:
Is a New GOP Being Born? - Pat Buchanan - Page 1
 
big_teee 3/2/2016 9:52 AM
All of the GOP candidates are far to the right of GOP's in the past.
I'm pretty sure Reagan would be kicked out of the party with todays standards.
He raised taxes, and started the rampant deficit spending.
T
 
tedmich 3/2/2016 11:05 AM


Trump meets with Christie
 
Mark Hammer 3/2/2016 11:17 AM
I doubt that it is a matter of social class. Rather it is the extent to which people of any socio-economic level understand the mechanics of government. As I'm fond of saying: whenever transparency gets up from the table and excuses itself, fear, loathing, and paranoid conspiracy theories are more than happy to take its seat. And for most people, government and public policy are about as opaque as it gets these days.

The trouble is that public understanding of government is often incomplete, inaccurate, and unrealistic. As such, government will consistently fail to deliver on what people expect, in the timeframe they expect. That is not to say that politicians are blameless. But neither is it to say that the folks who install those politicians are blameless either. You get the government you ask for, and all too often insist on.

The national challenge is how to make public knowledge of government richer, so that they can ask the right questions, insist on the right priorities, and have the right people working on them?

Monday, I went to meet with my member of parliament. She had office hours to meet constituents, so I dropped in after work, and chatted for 20 minutes. Her party had supported a motion that successfully quashed a piece of legislation introduced by the previous government, and she was on a multi-party committee to help set the direction, and maybe even draft a barebones version, of what would replace it. My work-group has been hard at work following up on the previous legislation, but she had no knowledge of what had been going on because it had never been made public. Clever woman, quick learner, and otherwise well-informed, but completely out of the loop as to what was happening on the bureaucratic side, and what might be realistic and operationally feasible. As are a great many legislators. I encouraged her to contact folks in my agency and get the scoop on what had been done so far, what challenges we had come up against, and what sort of timelines were realistic, and she was eagerly scribbling down notes with full plans to follow up on my suggestion. My stance was that, if the objectives were important, then it would be good to align, and make use of, as much of what we had accomplished so far as possible, with the new legislation, so that us folks tasked with making it happen wouldn't be pushed back to square one, by big ideas arrived at without knowledge of the operational realities.

If one reads the transcripts of the parliamentary debates that resulted in the legislation being quashed, and the committee being struck, there is no connection whatsoever to the operational necessities of actually doing something. It's all about values; chockablock with aphorisms, digs at the other parties, and noble phrases. The casual onlooker with a vested interest would certainly be moved by the debate, with its references to bringing women out of poverty, etc., but their expectations would likely be miscalibrated, because the people making the speeches had no idea about the mechanics of making it happen. They're not evil people, and not misguided. But the mechanics, cost, and time requirements for what they aspire to, on behalf of the nation, are simply not in the equation.

The disconnect between the elected people and the bureaucratic side results in unrealistic expectations and misunderstanding. And that gap turns into misunderstanding between the voting public, the people we elect, and the very institution of "government". I'm not trying to pin blame on anyone. I'm saying this is how things run aground.

As things get more opaque to more people, they just get more disappointed and angrier, and they like people who are every bit as angry...or at least successfully pretend to be.
 
Bill Moore 3/2/2016 11:19 AM
Terry, surely you've heard the speeches Reagan was doing for GE in the 60's. He was all for "making America great again"!
Reagan cut taxes, but it was the democrat spending that increased the deficit. His budget called for cuts in spending, to balance building back up the military, and other infrastructure that carter had let languish.
http://www.redstate.com/diary/Nikita...t-reagan-debt/
 
big_teee 3/2/2016 11:22 AM
With all due respect, all I remember is the trickle down Reaganomics.
In the Telecomm industry, we nearly all got layed off and starved to death, during nixon, reagan, bush 1 & 2.
In my 42 years of phone installation work?
We always hired and worked overtime when the democrats were in, and we layed off and got furloughed when the GOP was there.
That's a fact.
That's the GOP I remember!

T
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/2/2016 12:23 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Terry, surely you've heard the speeches Reagan was doing for GE in the 60's. He was all for "making America great again"!
"Making America Great Again." Compared to WHAT? Wasn't good enough for Ronnie Reagan in the 60's? What past exactly is it we're supposed to be dialing back to? The politicians never tell us but they sure do hint at it: Oh yeah, let's rescind the Emancipation Proclamation and make slavery available to all colors and stripes, not just blacks.

Make America Great Again, like the 1850's. Gimme that hoss whip & shotgun, you gonna pick cotton boy, or else! Now that was the good ol' days.

Republicans, party of Lincoln? No the party that didn't get along with Lincoln right from the very first. Who has the gold, rules. And the rest of us can pick cotton or starve.

BTW Reagan: 6 major tax raises, no excuse! And tinkle-down economics still isn't working 36 years later, didja notice?
 
Bill Moore 3/2/2016 1:17 PM
I can tell you how great it was before Reagan, home interest rates were 21% in 1979, (no I didn't buy then, I waited until 1986, when they were down to 11.5)! Due to carter's policies, energy prices were fixed, overall prices on goods were going through the roof, and companies were struggling to keep going!
Like Terry, our local union boys attributed their layoffs to reaganomics, not carter's policies that led to the company going broke.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-times...he-U-S-economy
My how some see history differently!
RealClearMarkets - Reagan's Legacy: Our 25-Year Boom
 
J M Fahey 3/2/2016 1:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
With all due respect, all I remember is the trickle down Reaganomics.
In the Telecomm industry, we nearly all got layed off and starved to death, during nixon, reagan, bush 1 & 2.
In my 42 years of phone installation work?
We always hired and worked overtime when the democrats were in, and we layed off and got furloughed when the GOP was there.
That's a fact.
That's the GOP I remember!

T
That's a post I like, straight personally collected (and *lived*) data , no massaging.
 
big_teee 3/2/2016 1:40 PM
I had a 1979 20 year bank loan for 7.1/4%.
Primary Mortgage Market Survey Archives - 30 Year Fixed Rate Mortgages - Freddie Mac
T
 
Bill Moore 3/2/2016 2:18 PM
I had a bank loan for 3.5% that I took out in early 1971, by late 1979 the bank wanted 21%, and a 30 year mortgage!
I remember some of the telephone guys coming to the power company I worked for in the mid 80's. One of them wanted to make a call to Alamogordo, 350 mi. away, from my shop. I told him to wait, and I dialed a 3 digit code, that gave me a dial tone in that town, and let him have the phone. We were using the microwave system set up to monitor, and control the power flow to make local, (long distance) calls, (for our business). He wondered if that was even legal? The engineer who set up the system, said, "my radio, my phone, why would you care". Because the phone companies were losing their monopoly!
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/2/2016 2:29 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Due to carter's policies, energy prices were fixed, overall prices on goods were going through the roof, and companies were struggling to keep going!
Yup, inflation sure sucks. And that's why this man is wearing a WIN button: Whip Inflation Now.

[IMG]http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/american-president-gerald-ford-with-a-win-button-on-his-lapel-in-the-picture-id51122982[/IMG]

I hope Getty Images won't mind me borrowing a photo of President Gerald Ford to illustrate this thread. In case they object, I'll remove it. Fair enough? I hope so.

Note the necktie, with a parade of elephants heading steeply downhill. Appropriate, no? What a fashionista!

In any case, high interest & inflation existed BEFORE Jimmy Carter even thought about running for president, so let's lay off blaming poor ol' Jimmy for that, shall we?

From the Ford Museum: President Gerald R. Ford inherited a nation in dire economic straits. A debilitating recession that combined high unemployment and a stagnant economy with rampant inflation posed many difficult challenges. With a degree in economics and 25 years of Congressional budgeting experience, President Ford plunged headfirst into the crisis. His first and most public move was to combat inflation. He declared inflation “public enemy number one.” Ford’s economic advisors devised a Whip Inflation Now or WIN program in the fall of 1974.

WIN, a full two years before the campaign of 1976. "Ford inherited a nation in dire economic straits." In other words, inflation and the setup for it getting worse was already under way in the Nixon administration.

So that makes it Carter's fault, right? In a world where logic simply does not apply, I suppose.

At least when he was president, Carter was trying to do something about it, not just stumbling around burning his toast, falling off his skis & printing WIN buttons.

And inflation WAS good in the late 70's, if you were rich and you could buy U.S. Treasury bonds with a guaranteed payout of 15-16-17% or more per year for the next 10 to 30 years. Yippee, h'ray for the rich, you don't get a chance to make a safe investment like that too often.
 
big_teee 3/2/2016 2:29 PM
Bill you're talking my language now.
The breakup or Divestiture, didn't happen until 1983.
1979 was still all the old days.
T
 
Bill Moore 3/2/2016 3:25 PM
Leo, so you agree that the problems we have now really are the president's fault? He keeps telling us it all George Bush's fault, with the poor state of things that he inherited and all!
 
tedmich 3/2/2016 5:34 PM
Mitt Romney has announced a major speech this Thursday at 11:30AM ET from the University of Utah.

Rumors are he will join the race!

[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/48/96/84/48968452b9a653b984558c20388d25b9.gif[/IMG]

he said NADA, didn't even endorse another candidate! A fly on a stampeding elephant...
 
big_teee 3/3/2016 9:43 AM
MITT ROMNEY, what a pathetic, losing, whiner!
T
 
tedmich 3/3/2016 10:04 AM
The Rockefeller/Bush East coast moneyed GOP has finally been killed by their cultivated conservative base, having promised a revolution for half a century...
 
big_teee 3/3/2016 10:09 AM
IMO, Trump exposes and scares the hell out of the right, for exposing them for what they are.
The Koch Bros. Romney, and all the rich right are afraid that Trump will ruin their fleecing of America.
The rich right make all there money from all the out sourcing that Trump says he will stop.
They also make tons of money on all the visa's of cheap immigrant labor.
T
 
tedmich 3/3/2016 10:38 AM
The GOP has been promising a cultural revolution FOREVER but give more of the same politically and economically, and at this point even their (very easily distracted) base seems to want change outside of the old cultural paper tigers: Gays, Abortions and Mexicans Oh my!

Of course electing the biggest economic tool available will NOT lead to a change in the status quo, but they can easily be distracted again...

look a terrorist!
look a pointy headed liberal socialist!
look a minority!

President can't do ANYTHING on his own except maybe entertain...
 
loudthud 3/3/2016 10:59 AM
I ran across this as a possible explanation of why Trump is so popular. It might also explain Reagan and Hitler. They call it Authoritarianism.


The rise of American authoritarianism - Vox
 
Justin Thomas 3/3/2016 12:23 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
The GOP has been promising a cultural revolution FOREVER...
Funny, I thought that was Chairman Mao's thing... I didn't know he was a good little Capitalist!

Justin
 
SpareRibs 3/3/2016 12:37 PM
Hello,
If Willard tries to run, The die is already cast for Hillary to move right in to the White House. They just have to dust off the 47% adds.
It would be the downfall of America if Willard got in because, Ryan would write policy and Willard would rubber stamp it.
 
g1 3/3/2016 12:39 PM
I do think Crispin Glover is wonderful, but I don't think that's the Willard you mean?

edit: aaah, W. Mitt Romney. Now I get it. So not Willard Trump from Bonanza either.
 
big_teee 3/3/2016 12:53 PM
Mitt is trying IMO to pull a fast one.
If the 1237 delegate count is not reached?
Then all candidates would be tainted, and he Willard would accept the nomination.
What a Cluster-F, is happening here. lol
The GOP is in the process of a massive implode!
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/3/2016 1:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Leo, so you agree that the problems we have now really are the president's fault? He keeps telling us it all George Bush's fault, with the poor state of things that he inherited and all!
Wrong George. It's George III's fault, for treating the colonists so badly. Everything sucks since then don't it? We must restore the America that was so great, way back when. Maybe we should beg Great Britain to take back the colony they ran so well. Lotta extra perks included now: Louisiana territory, half of old Mexico, the Pacific Northwest, Alaska and - who could refuse - Hawaii.

George Bush, who can blame him? Such a nice guy, hang out on the ranch & cut brush one day out of three. It's what he let his friends get away with, that's so bad. Those who are fans of Bush 43 era, how come you don't run Dick Cheney, the guy who really knows how to run things?

BTW I've yet to hear the Bammer actually say Bush was at fault for the mess he left '08.
 
Bill Moore 3/3/2016 2:07 PM
Just a few:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...tlanta-georgia
Awkward: Obama Blames Bush for Economy While Standing Next to Him - Kate Hicks
https://pjmedia.com/blog/aim-before-...george-w-bush/
https://www.ihatethemedia.com/obama-...hink-socialist
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/3/2016 8:19 PM
Oh well, then I s'pose he did. And that means it must be true, Obama spoke the truth at least 4 times during his administration. And if he was wrong, why didn't Dubya give him a kick when he had the chance?

Today's Drumpf drubbing by Mittyrich was a heckuva moment. I have a lot of respect for Romney - he's way better than ANY of the current candidates. After all who else gets a $70,000 per year federal tax writeoff for their dancing horse, hm? Everybody should! I gotta wonder, what kind of special tax writeoffs is The Donald getting. His hair alone must be worth a million bucks a year. Does he have insurance on it, like Betty Grable had on her legs?
 
big_teee 3/3/2016 8:27 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Oh well, then I s'pose he did. And that means it must be true, Obama spoke the truth at least 4 times during his administration. And if he was wrong, why didn't Dubya give him a kick when he had the chance?

Today's Drumpf drubbing by Mittyrich was a heckuva moment. I have a lot of respect for Romney - he's way better than ANY of the current candidates. After all who else gets a $70,000 per year federal tax writeoff for their dancing horse, hm? Everybody should! I gotta wonder, what kind of special tax writeoffs is The Donald getting. His hair alone must be worth a million bucks a year. Does he have insurance on it, like Betty Grable had on her legs?
Not to be a Party Pooper, but?
Can you learn how to spell and write?
This Comic gibberish.
Al Capp school of writing? JFC?
T
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/3/2016 9:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Not to be a Party Pooper, but?
Can you learn how to spell and write?
This Comic gibberish.
Al Capp school of writing? JFC?
T
Happy to hear you're entertained.

Never mind the rest, I'm genuinely proud you & Mrs Teee went out and voted in the primary.

Looking forward to shmoo recipes in upcoming "what's for supper" segments. Yrs truely, another Al Capp fan, LG.

[IMG]http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/40/shmoo_dying_FINAL.jpg[/IMG]
 
SpareRibs 3/4/2016 3:22 AM
Hello,
Thinking that Willard could be president is in no way funny. With Paul Ryan as the Speaker of the House, all he has to do is run bills through the house and Willard will rubber stamp them.
Remember Ryan's budget that was so crazy he couldn't get it through the House, well now he is in charge.
If anyone has read The God Makers, you will know that Willard's first allegiance above all others, is to the Mormon Church. It takes precedence even over the Constitution.
Just a few things to help everyone sleep a little better tonight.
 
tedmich 3/4/2016 8:27 AM
Krugman gets it completely correct!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/op...pgtype=article
 
big_teee 3/4/2016 9:11 AM
Carson's ethics are questionable too.
He appears to have only been on a big book tour.
Carson spent heavy on consultants, light on 2016 campaigning
T
 
Mark Hammer 3/4/2016 11:02 AM
Not 100%, I think. One can take a dozen equines headed for dogfood, line 'em up, and it is still a horserace, albeit a rather slow, tragic, and wincing one. And that is very much what we have here. A horse race with nary a shining star in the pack.

But I wouldn't be so quick to badmouth ALL the non-Trump alternatives. Their approach to public policy may well be naïve, unrealistic, counterproductive, and occasionally duplicitous, but in the grand scheme of things, someone used to "being the boss" in the private sector is the more likely to say "Just do it!" and use veto powers more readily. And in that sense, Rubio, Kasich and Clinton, while not inspiring, do not give me the agita, that Trump does, and to some extent, Cruz.

But, but, but you haven't said anything about Sanders, Mark? Bernie's okay, I guess, and he does inspire youth, which is not nothing. But, given his age, I see him as a one-termer. And quite frankly, the things that are important for the nation have a longer time-arc than that, requiring two terms, or at least a handoff to someone with a similar vision so as to maintain continuity and finish what was started. In these times of political gridlock, you need to have a leader who can outlive and outlast the obstructions. And believe me, there WILL be obstructions.
 
Bill Moore 3/4/2016 1:42 PM
"If anyone has read The God Makers, you will know that Willard's first allegiance above all others, is to the Mormon Church. It takes precedence even over the Constitution."
Just as JFK owed his allegiance to Rome?
I have many LDS friends, some are in politics, but other than their conscience, none will base public policy solely on their beliefs.
 
rjb 3/4/2016 7:05 PM
What's in a Name?
Online Etymology Dictionary

trump (v.2) [IMG]http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif[/IMG]"fabricate, devise," 1690s, from trump "deceive, cheat" (1510s), from Middle English trumpen (late 14c.), from Old French tromper "to deceive," of uncertain origin. Apparently from se tromper de "to mock," from Old French tromper "to blow a trumpet." Brachet explains this as "to play the horn, alluding to quacks and mountebanks, who attracted the public by blowing a horn, and then cheated them into buying ...." The Hindley Old French dictionary has baillier la trompe "blow the trumpet" as "act the fool," and Donkin connects it rather to trombe "waterspout," on the notion of turning (someone) around. Connection with triumph also has been proposed. Related: Trumped; trumping. Trumped up "false, concocted" first recorded 1728.
 
loudthud 3/4/2016 9:40 PM
Jimmy Carter tells what's really going on, why everybody is dumping on Trump.

President Jimmy Carter Speaks Out: Calls The U.S. An Oligarchy
 
g1 3/5/2016 12:09 PM
Everyone keeps saying he has no experience, doesn't losing money count?
Here is some data about his incredible "expertise" in just one part of his business:

Donald Trump?s business disaster is worse than you think - MarketWatch
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/5/2016 12:29 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
Everyone keeps saying he has no experience, doesn't losing money count?
Losing/wasting other people's money counts for more. Isn't that the job of politicians? They all seem to be so very good at it!
 
tedmich 3/5/2016 12:47 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Losing/wasting other people's money counts for more. Isn't that the job of politicians? They all seem to be so very good at it!
Since Trump cleared $32M in pay and bonuses, the Casino business was a success, by GOP definition.

Me>shareholders>>>humanity
 
SpareRibs 3/5/2016 2:36 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
"If anyone has read The God Makers, you will know that Willard's first allegiance above all others, is to the Mormon Church. It takes precedence even over the Constitution."
Just as JFK owed his allegiance to Rome?
I have many LDS friends, some are in politics, but other than their conscience, none will base public policy solely on their beliefs.
Hello,
Rome is in Italy, The LDS has saturated the United States with a delusional cult.
I speak from experience, as my wife was once a captive of the Mormons. The in laws still haven't come to their senses yet.
Anyone who thinks there is going to be an entire planet, ruled entirely by them, when they meet their demise, is in the same category as the 72 virgins crowd.
 
big_teee 3/5/2016 3:08 PM
You can throw Catholicism, and Southern Baptists in the mix too.
IMO they're all Nuts.
But, I may not be the right one for the Religious Community to get their endorsement from!
T
 
tedmich 3/5/2016 6:30 PM
Koch Brothers have no problem with Trump

Exclusive: Koch brothers will not use funds to try to block Trump nomination | Reuters
 
überfuzz 3/7/2016 3:45 AM
I saw this decree from the English Crown, thought it fit right in here.
Quote Originally Posted by The Crown

To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your failure in recent years to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. (You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except North Dakota, which she does not fancy).

Your new Prime Minister, David Cameron, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.

Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

-----------------------

1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').

------------------------

2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'

-------------------

3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

-----------------

4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.

----------------------

5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

----------------------

6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

--------------------

7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.

-------------------

8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.

-------------------

9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beer is also acceptable, as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.

---------------------

10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialect in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.

---------------------

11. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).

---------------------

12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.

--------------------

13.. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

-----------------

14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).

---------------

15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.

God Save the Queen!
 
Justin Thomas 3/7/2016 4:12 AM
I could go along with #s 1, 2, 4a, 8, 9, 13, and the national anthem should be a Pink Floyd song. I also see no provision for Irish and German beers?

Justin
 
überfuzz 3/7/2016 7:47 AM
Well I guess there could be a level of refinement, but it pretty much sums it up. Right?
 
big_teee 3/7/2016 8:18 AM
The Queen may have a few problems taking our guns!
And, does anyone really understand Cricket?
 
Steve A. 3/7/2016 5:53 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Jimmy Carter tells what's really going on, why everybody is dumping on Trump.

President Jimmy Carter Speaks Out: Calls The U.S. An Oligarchy
I believe that this is from a radio interview last September as in this video...

http://youtu.be/ymrn4knqvJU

So Trump is not part of the rich ruling class that Carter rails against? Does anyone expect Trump to propose making bankruptcy rules more fair for the working classes?

I don't see what this has to do with Trump...

Steve A.
 
g1 3/7/2016 6:15 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
The Queen may have a few problems taking our guns!
And, does anyone really understand Cricket?
Here is a rather humourous (note spelling ) response to the piece quoted in post #639 :


"SUBJECT: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

To the citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:

We welcome your concern about our electoral process. It must be exciting for you to see a real Republic in action, even if from a distance. As always we're amused by your quaint belief that you're actually a world power. The sun never sets on the British Empire! Right-o chum!

However, we regretfully have to decline your offer for intervention. On the other hand, it would be amusing to see you try to enforce your new policy (for the 96.3% of you that seem to have forgotten that you have little to no real power). After much deliberation, we have decided to continue our tradition as the longest running democratic republic. It seems that switching to a monarchy is in fact considered a "backwards step" by the majority of the world.

To help you rise from your current anachronistic status, we have compiled a series of helpful suggestions that we hope you adopt:

1. Realize that language is an organic structure, and that you aren't always correct in your pronunciation or spelling. Let's use your "aluminium" example. Sir Humphrey Davy (an Englishman) invented the name "aluminum" (note spelling) for the metal. However, in common usage the name evolved into "aluminium" to match the naming convention of other elements. In 1925 the United States decided to switch back to the original spelling and pronunciation of the word, at which point we dominated the aluminum industry. We'd also like to point out that the process of actually producing aluminum was developed by an American and a Frenchman (not an Englishman).

However, we'd like to thank you for the Oxford English Dictionary. It's an interesting collection, considering that over 10,000 of the words in the original edition were submitted by a crazy American civil-war veteran called Dr. William Charles Minor.

2. Learn to distinguish the American and Canadian accents, and then we'll talk about the English and Australian accent issue.

3. Review your basic arithmetic. (Hint 100 - 98.85 = 1.15 and 100 - 97.85 = 2.15)

4. If you want English actors as good guys, then make your own movies. Don't rely on us for your modern popular culture. We liked "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels", "Trainspotting", and "The Full Monty". We've also heard good things about this "Billy Elliot". But one good movie a year doesn't exactly make a cultural powerhouse. However, you're doing pretty well with music, so keep up the good work on that front.

5. It's inefficient to have a national anthem that changes its title whenever your monarch dies. Let's not forget that your national anthem has an extremely boring tune. We suggest switching to that Rule Brittania ditty, it's toetapping. Or maybe Elton John could adapt "Candle In The Wind" again for you guys.

6. Improve at your national sport. Football? Soccer? This just in: United States gets fourth place in men's soccer at the 2000 Summer Olympics. United Kingdom? Not even close. By the way, impressive showing at Euro 2000. You almost managed to get through the tournament without having your fans start an international incident.

7. Learn how to cook. England has some top notch candy. Salt 'n' Vinegar chips are quite yummy. However, there's a reason why the best food in your country is Indian or Chinese. Your contributions to the culinary arts are soggy beans, warm beer, and spotted dick. Perhaps when you finally realize the French aren't the spawn of satan they'll teach you how to cook.

8. You're doing a terrible job at understanding cars. The obvious error is that you drive on the wrong side of the road. A second problem is pricing, it's cheaper to buy a car in Belgium and ship it to England than to buy a car in England. On the other hand, we like Jaguars and Aston Martins. That's why we bought the companies.

9. We'll tell you who killed JFK when you apologize for "Teletubbies".

Thank you for your time. Yu can now return to watching bad Australian soap operas.

P.S. — Regarding WW2: You're Welcome. "
 
Paleo Pete 3/8/2016 8:49 PM
Those were both pretty funny. I kind of halfway agree with #9 in the first one, American beer is the worst crap in the world, I'll take German Dark Ale any time. Budweiser is goat piss. Most other American beers don't even rate that high...The only English beer I've tried wasn't bad, but didn't match Optimator Spaten or Paulander Salvatore so I don't have much to go on. The one Chinese beer I tried was actually pretty horrible...
 
loudthud 3/8/2016 8:55 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
I believe that this is from a radio interview last September as in this video...

http://youtu.be/ymrn4knqvJU

So Trump is not part of the rich ruling class that Carter rails against? Does anyone expect Trump to propose making bankruptcy rules more fair for the working classes?

I don't see what this has to do with Trump...

Steve A.
Because better than 95% of all elections are won by the candidate that spends the most money,

And because (by virtue of the SCOTUS decision) it's your first amendment right to bribe a politician by supplying unlimited funds to a PAC to finance election campaigns,

That means virtually every politician in Washington only listens to the people that fund the campaigns and the lobbyists that do the same, not the people they are supposed to represent.

Trump (and to an extent Sanders) are not backed by a PAC so do not have to listen to, or do what the rich want them to do. He might actually make a decision that would benefit the American people, and not further damage them.

And if a PAC is running ads telling lies against you, you can't even find out who is funding it. That's what happened to the guy who pardoned Keith Richards for his arrest in Arkansas, Mike Huckabee last cycle.

Trump has given money to PACs in the past, that's just part of doing business. Many rich people give money to both sides so they benefit no matter who wins. Cruz and Rubio both have more than $20 million and Hillary has more than 30 million in their PACs. Some of Hillary's money came from overseas.

But don't worry, if Trump is elected, he won't be able to get much through Congress. They are all corrupt, that's why the RNC is trying to derail Trump. I do expect him to call them names and embarrass the hell out of them. Maybe he could bribe them!
 
Paleo Pete 3/8/2016 9:16 PM
You just pegged an aspect I haven't seen anyone else but me even mention. Trump will have a lot of people in Congress against every move he makes, and won't be able to do every little thing he says he'll do. I'm pretty sure he wants to do what's best for the country, which I can't say for the rest. They are all funded by the same group of slugs controlling politicians now. Cruz, who I like, just hired a Bush (can't remember the first name) so I have to question him now too, that smells funny.

Trump will have a lot of opposition if elected, and will have everybody and his brother in both parties scrutinizing every word he says.

Here's what someone on another forum said that I liked though...

Democrats hate Trump.
Republicans hate Trump.
The media hates Trump.

What better endorsement can you hope for?
 
tedmich 3/8/2016 9:21 PM
Recent analysis is that while Trump could pay for his own Presidential campaign it would be a very small and weak one.

And he reported an annual income of less than $500k recently
Donald Trump received a tax break for people who make less than $500,000 a year - Quartz

He would have to have the PACs behind him, you cannot win without Billionaires after "Citizens United"

To a great degree Citizens United (CU) was an insurance policy for the wealthy in the face of potential political insurrection LIKE Trump/Sanders.

The original case in CU was tiny, it was morphed out of the blue by SCOTUS to be a monster beyond what any of the originals lawyers thought it would be.
 
g1 3/8/2016 10:08 PM
Just because Trump doesn't play the game the same way as the other guys does not mean he is not corrupt. Trump university anyone?
That's a good thing on the resume of someone who wants to run the most powerful country in the world?
Trump is establishment money. Maybe he's not establishment politics but he's still establishment.
 
big_teee 3/8/2016 10:11 PM
That's why we call him the Teflon Don!
Nothing sticks!
 
tedmich 3/8/2016 10:47 PM
Joe Scarborough spills the beans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJD6GP6b4E

For 30 years "it never trickles down"
 
Steve A. 3/9/2016 8:19 PM
Here's a great article from Matt Taibbi explaining the whole Trump phenomenom in 44,500+ characters...

How America Made Donald Trump Unstoppable | Rolling Stone

We need to get big money out of politics. Federally funded Presidential elections might help. It would be good to study how other countries deal with the issue.

Donations to candidates should be made because you believe in them to make the right decisions, not to purchase future favors.

Steve A.
 
Steve A. 3/9/2016 8:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
Joe Scarborough spills the beans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJD6GP6b4E

For 30 years "it never trickles down"
A lot of good points in that video. Here is a response from The Young Turk Nation (?) which takes those points even further...

https://youtu.be/76DEIn6SlsA

Steve A.
 
big_teee 3/9/2016 9:59 PM
Saw this on RMS tonight.
Reminds me of the Romney speech about you know who.
See what you think?

 
Leo_Gnardo 3/9/2016 10:44 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
For 30 years "it never trickles down"
@ 2:35 "We let the democrats paint our side as the benefactors of Wall Street; our voters don't benefit from profits on Wall Street." That's right girly, they don't. Yet they're still dumb enough to support Republican policies as if they did.

I knew it in 1980 when Reagan started throwing the tinkle-down bull, and it still doesn't work does it? After 36 years still waiting for my benefits from letting the ultra rich get ultra richer.... not holding my breath.

"We let..." gets up my nose too. Oh that's right girly, you're in charge, and you let people do things... sidekick girly girl is dumb as a box of rocks. One more reason I'm glad I don't have a TV.
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 2:04 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
@ 2:35 "We let the democrats paint our side as the benefactors of Wall Street; our voters don't benefit from profits on Wall Street." That's right girly, they don't. Yet they're still dumb enough to support Republican policies as if they did.
The Young Turk Nation response pointed out how stupid that comment was...

Before the trickle down theory of Reaganomics we had Dick Cheney trying to sell Gerald Ford on the Laffer Curve which purported to prove that cutting taxes would increase tax revenues since the rich would be inspired to earn more. Total bullshit dreamed up by fans of Ayn Rand.
The purported reason changes but it all boils down to lower taxes for the rich...

BTW special tax treatment for capital gains may have been justified 100 years ago when Wall St was actually investing in businesses but nowadays it is strictly speculation no different than gambling which is treated as ordinary income.

Steve A.
 
cbass 3/10/2016 5:50 AM
So can any dummy just jump in here and talk?
I can't stand Trump. I hate his shows. I hate the stupid look on his face. He pretty much has no class.
But the establishment is filling their boots full.They don't know what to do . Their lies aren't working .I would havenver considered voting for him until I here all the folks that are terrified of him becoming president .the King of Saudi is telling me not to vote for him. The pres of Mexico . AL sharpton and on and on. In my mind that's good reasons to vote for Trump.
I'm really sad to see the direction this country is turning. People don't want to be free they want to get it free. I don't need the govt to watch out for me, defend me from other people or mysef, feed me and so on. I'm appauled that people want the govt involved in every day decisions and morality. Seat belt laws, gun laws , marriage laws, laws that tell private businesses they can't refuse business to who ever they want. All unconstitutional freedom restricting BS . the federal govt has no business forcing local govts to follow their laws unless that local govt was doing something unconstitutional. Say like banning guns.
So guess it's Trump for me. I don't think I even need to explain why I don't like hilliary . Bernie? Really we want socialism. We want the govt involved in our day to day life? This socialist osamacare is working great.
I'm all for being free with means your own. You make bad choices you suffer the consequences. Not you make bad choices and someone else picks up the slack.
 
tedmich 3/10/2016 7:32 AM
I think you'll find Ted Cruz is an even bigger fan of Freedom* than Mr. Trump

*Government ceding all power to multinational corporations and the 0.1%

Plus he has a shiny Christian coating, surely an added guard against the other flavors of ultra rich, like the Saudi King.
 
Bill Moore 3/10/2016 8:49 AM
"Trickle down" was so bad it started the longest period of sustained economic growth in US history. (Please notice that after the Clinton tax increase, the economy faltered until the republicans took over congress, and Clinton was smart enough to follow their economic policies).
RealClearMarkets - Reagan's Legacy: Our 25-Year Boom
Since I was raised with Christians, they don't scare me with their "God bless you's"!
 
Enzo 3/10/2016 9:24 AM
yeah well, I was raised with Christians too, and their self-righteous "This is how you WILL behave" is pretty scary at the national level.

cbass, you are free to chime in all you like. I am curious what lies the "establishment" is telling about Trump. They don't need to lie, every time he opens his mouth he creates another offense. All by himself.
 
big_teee 3/10/2016 9:34 AM
I grew up in a religious family too.
I believe in complete separation of church and state.
IMO Religion has no business in government.
T
 
big_teee 3/10/2016 10:55 AM
Hey Canadians here that discuss our american politics?
I saw your new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau on CNN, and he can't even read a teleprompter.
He still looks green behind the ears, is that the best you could do?
Did you get him off of the hockey ice, or out of an Arcade somewhere?
IMO looks like Canada needs to improve its vetting process!
T
 
Bill Moore 3/10/2016 11:21 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I grew up in a religious family too.
I believe in complete separation of church and state.
IMO Religion has no business in government.
T
And government has no business in religion, (the establishment clause states that government shall make no religion, or prevent the free exercise thereof). I think preventing folks from following their beliefs should not be tolerated!
 
big_teee 3/10/2016 11:25 AM
As far as I know government doesn't interfere with anyones religion?
Unless one's religious beliefs, discriminate against others.
As far as I know, americans can practice religion anyway they wish.
T
 
cbass 3/10/2016 11:47 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
yeah well, I was raised with Christians too, and their self-righteous "This is how you WILL behave" is pretty scary at the national level.

cbass, you are free to chime in all you like. I am curious what lies the "establishment" is telling about Trump. They don't need to lie, every time he opens his mouth he creates another offense. All by himself.
i didnt mean lies about trump specificly. just their lies in general. people are fed up with business as usual in washington and thats the only reason he s doing so well.It's kinda scary.The only thig that scares me more is Hillary.
if folks would look at the actual teachings of Jesus . Instead of stereotyping a few hundred million people based on their experince with a few folks. I see a lot about being kind and forgivness and not judging others . Maybe they're reading a different bible.
I'll be the first t agree there is a lot fake pos people that call themselves christians. If you're judging people and going around telling everyone they're going to hell and spewing hateful thngs out of your mouth. Then you are definately not following the teachins of JC.
It goes both ways .Ive met some very judgemental angry misinformed athiest . I would never say well all atheist are like that.
 
big_teee 3/10/2016 11:57 AM
My experience with religion, is the words can't, & won't.
It is alway about what you can't do, or what religion won't let you do.
If religion would stay quiet and mind its own business that would be one thing.
But, they can't or won't!
T
 
Bill Moore 3/10/2016 2:41 PM
My grandpaw was a Baptist preacher, (Dad's side), tough, and he didn't mind telling you what he thought. My grandmaw, (Mother's side), was kind, and religious, but didn't tell you any gospel, unless you asked. Neither worried me, I have my own opinion about things, and one could do a lot worse than to emulate Jesus.
The Little Sisters of the Poor, are being sued to participate in birth control mandates, bakers, and florists have been sued for not wanting to participate in a wedding that their religion believes is sinful. Why should the government, "prohibit the free exercise thereof", as they have in those instances.
I just wish one of the "gender confused", would pull the same stunt with a muslin bakery! (Would we even hear about it?)
 
Enzo 3/10/2016 3:29 PM
Because while we can trot out the Christian bakery that doesn't want to make a his and his wedding cake, but we will never trot out the human sacrifice types, or even animal sacrifice folks, we don't revere the polygamist families as free exercising. Only some of us are offended that Christian right to lifers are not put out by murders of abortioners. free exercise means you get to follow me around shouting your bible verse because you perceive me to be a sinner? Not you specifically, generically.


frankly, I don't think the bakers are "participating" in the sinful lifestyle they protest. They are baking a cake. What they want to do is make a statement of hate, they want to be in your face about the lifestyle. I bought my wife a small cake once and had the people decorate it with the words "Bite me" on the icing. (we say that to each other all the time as endearment - nothing says love like a "bite me" cake) I would have been quite offended is some self righteous baker had decided my selection violated their moral standards.


I suppose I ought to turn away people from my repair shop if they play polkas or rap "music". and certainly anyone from a church, I'd hate to be a hypocrite and service Christian amplifiers.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." isn't that how it goes? How many of those bakers are free of sin? or is it now "well MY sins aren't as bad as THEIR sins, so there."

Individuals who are religious are not who scares me, it is people running for office claiming "we need to get Jesus back into our schools." I had to say the Pledge of Allegiance AND the Lords Prayer every day in grade school. That ain't right.
 
cbass 3/10/2016 3:46 PM
right or wrong people have the right to run there business however they see fit. Including choosing their customers. Doesnt matter the reasons.
I wont do jobs for assholes .So are we gonna pass a law saying i have to do work for assholes?
Legislators here are trying to pass a law that will make clergy free to decide if they want to perform gay marriages or not. Its scary that we even have to talk about laws like this.
 
big_teee 3/10/2016 3:52 PM
I don't think Trump scares me as much as his followers.
As far as I know churches don't perform gay marriages if they don't want to.
That is not to be confused with a gay couple having the right to get a marriage license from the county clerks office.
They do have the right to get the license, that was passed by the supreme court.
T
 
cbass 3/10/2016 4:02 PM
BTW Im not a Trump follower or fan or anything like that but as soon as other candidates start talking about how they're going comprimise my 2nd amendment right .Im out
Yes I agree totally different between church and county.Honestly I havent read much about the law but from what i gather it protects businesses and clergy the right to discriminate. Like i said it doesnt matter why ou dont want to perform a service for somebody. Just that you dont want to is reason enough.


I dont agree with federal govt ruling on matters of morality and such. Thats not their job.It should be the local govt. and local electrions to decide thse matters
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 4:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
The Little Sisters of the Poor, are being sued to participate in birth control mandates, bakers, and florists have been sued for not wanting to participate in a wedding that their religion believes is sinful. Why should the government, "prohibit the free exercise thereof", as they have in those instances.
I just wish one of the "gender confused", would pull the same stunt with a muslin bakery! (Would we even hear about it?)
I looked up The Little Sisters of the Poor and they had been granted an exception to the birth control mandate- their lawsuit is about the paperwork they had to fill out for the exemption.

The Little Sisters of the Poor Are Headed to the Supreme Court - The Atlantic

The bakery and florist issues have been batted around endlessly. On one hand I don't think that people should be discriminated against because of race, nationality, gender or sexual orientation but on the other hand I don't think that they should have to actively participate in things against their beliefs.

Specifically they should be willing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple but can reserve the right to not decorate it with the figures of two grooms. In most cases I think that a same-sex couple would not want to patronize a business run by someone who doesn't approve of same-sex marriage but if that is the only business in the area they might not have that option.

BTW same-sex marriage is a legal contract and not necessarily the religious covenant set forth in the Bible. To give LGBT people equal rights we had two choices:
1. Rewrite every federal, state and local law, regulation or ordinance replacing the word "marriage" with the term "legal union."
2. Legalize same-sex marriage as a legal contract.

"Render unto Caesar..." suggests that Christians should accept same-sex marriage as a legal contract even if they reject it as the holy covenant spelled out in the Bible.

As always these are strictly my own opinions here...

Steve A.

P.S. Why the derogatory names like "gender confused"? Perhaps they may have been confused before they came to grips with their own sexuality but once they accept who they are there is no confusion.

P.P.S. Getting back to religion how can a corporation like Hobby Lobby have 1st Amendment rights? Redefining the term "citizen" to include corporations was a major wrong turn for the Supreme Court...
 
cbass 3/10/2016 4:09 PM
and yes Enzo If You didnt wantr to fix my amp because I'm Christian or any other reason .That is well within your rights
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 4:18 PM
Quote Originally Posted by cbass View Post
right or wrong people have the right to run there business however they see fit. Including choosing their customers. Doesnt matter the reasons.
According to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 the reasons DO matter. You can refuse service to someone because of, say, their attitude but not because of their race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civi...ts_Act_of_1964

Recent laws and court decisions have been applying some of those rights to sexual orientation as well but there are still many gaps.

Steve A.
 
cbass 3/10/2016 4:24 PM
I'm sure your right .I would argue thats a BS law envoking on at least a couple different constitutional rights. You cannot legislate acceptance . Im not trying to argue for one side or another here just for freedom
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 4:31 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I don't think Trump scares me as much as his followers.
Agreed! I have no idea what he actually believes and what is him just trying to stir shit up for his own amusement.

He blows the dog whistle ("immigrants!", "muslims!") and I am amazed at how many people come running, abandoning the very precepts our country was founded upon.

Yes, it is wrong that Big Money runs our government but what does that have to do with xenophobia and bigotry, and turning away from everything that our country stands for?

Steve A.
 
cbass 3/10/2016 4:42 PM
I dont think keeping our borders secure and keeping track of who comes across is bigoted or racist or anything like that. Sure most illegals just want to come here to work and send their un taxed money back to mexico. Maybe though it could just be posible that some criminals come across either fleeing or just to do crimes. How would we know? They arent documeneted .
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 4:45 PM
(CNN) The Civil Rights Act of 1964 -- hailed by some as the most important legislation in American history -- was signed into law 50 years ago Wednesday.

It was known as the "bill of the century." But many Americans today probably couldn't say exactly what the legislation accomplished.

"It's really the law that created modern America," said Todd S. Purdum, author of "An Idea Whose Time Has Come." "Its goal was to help finish the work of the Civil War, 100 years after the war had ended, and to make the promise of legal equality for blacks and whites, even though actual equality is elusive to this day."

The law revolutionized a country where blacks and whites could not eat together in public restaurants under Jim Crow laws, or stay at the same hotel. It outlawed discrimination in public places and facilities and banned discrimination based on race, gender, religion or national origin by employers and government agencies. It also encouraged the desegregation of public schools.

"This did all of those things. It changed everything about ordinary life for black Americans all over the country," Purdum said. "I think when you try to explain to people today -- I have children 10 and 14 years old, and I don't think they can really imagine a world like (this) existed before this law."

The act had the longest filibuster in U.S. Senate history, and after a bloody, long civil rights struggle, the Senate passed the act 73-27 in July 1964. It became law less than a year after President John F. Kennedy's assassination.
What you might not know about the 1964 Civil Rights Act - CNNPolitics.com
 
cbass 3/10/2016 4:50 PM
Im not saying its right to discrimanate against people because of skin color or religion or whatever . Im just saying the govt should not be able to tel you how to run your business.
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 4:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by cbass View Post
Sure most illegals just want to come here to work and send their un taxed money back to mexico.
Untaxed money? To work in the US all employees must have a Social Security number so the illegal aliens get a fake one which allows the government to deduct income and payroll taxes that they can never recover.

Steve A.
 
Steve A. 3/10/2016 5:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by cbass View Post
Im just saying the govt should not be able to tel you how to run your business.
For small businesses it is usually the local government which tells them how to run it with all of the regulations and zoning laws with which they must comply.
 
cbass 3/10/2016 5:17 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
Untaxed money? To work in the US all employees must have a Social Security number so the illegal aliens get a fake one which allows the government to deduct income and payroll taxes that they can never recover.

Steve A.
Its not like that here at least not on construction sites and sawmills. If you can pay a guy under the table for $7per hour .Its muh cheaper tha writing off the guy making 15 per hour. Even if its just 1099 work . Forget about payroll taxes
 
cbass 3/10/2016 5:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
For small businesses it is usually the local government which tells them how to run it with all of the regulations and zoning laws with which they must comply.
True but thats different from forceing someone to perform a srvice they dont want to.
 
Bill Moore 3/10/2016 6:14 PM
The Little Sister's case isn't just paperwork. The insurance they purchase has to provide birth control, even if they are told they aren't providing the funds, they are!
Little Sisters to Supreme Court: We Cannot Choose Between Our Care for the Poor and Our Faith | Daily News | NCRegister.com

As for "gay marriage", government shouldn't be in the marriage business. A civil union would be the best way to ensure equal protections under the law, but the gender confused want to rub their behavior in everyone's faces. That's why the baker's, and florist's suits. I have customers who I have known for years who are confused, but they aren't out to make headlines, they just live their life like anyone else. (Seems to be more are women in our area, than men). The case of the baker, they had baked cakes before for the folks, but they said their conscience wouldn't allow them to bake a wedding cake, (hence being part of the ceremony). The florists also had dealt with the people who sued them, but once again didn't want to be part of the ceremony.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...-Lay-With-Man/

The supreme court upheld for Hobby Lobby, and most thought it would be a class action decision. The administration claimed that Hobby Lobby was a closely held family organisation, so all others aren't covered by the same SCOTUS ruling, forcing all to sue for relief.

If you don't think organisations are an entity, why are they taxed, even though they are owned by shareholders, who are then taxed on the proceeds after the government get taxes from the corporation? Double taxation!

I have told many I can't work on their car. I had a woman, several years ago, (from somewhere back east), that brought in a rust bucket that needed a lot. I gave an estimate, and codified it with the idea that it may be more, depending how the fasteners are cooperating, I could give her an close estimate after teardown. She started in on us how she needed an exact quote, or she couldn't authorize repairs, I told her to take her car then, but she left it. She called back a few days later telling me to go ahead, but I told her I wasn't sure I wanted her for a customer. She said I had to work on her car, then I told her if we don't trust each other, it's not going to work. She should find someplace where she trusts the people to get her work done, we ended up fixing her car, and worked on her next one until her death. Others I have refused, and that's my business!
 
rjb 3/10/2016 6:32 PM
Quote Originally Posted by cbass View Post
I would have never considered voting for him until I here all the folks that are terrified of him becoming president .the King of Saudi is telling me not to vote for him. The pres of Mexico . AL sharpton and on and on. In my mind that's good reasons to vote for Trump.
Ya know, sometimes the enemy of your enemy is still a jerk.
 
Bill Moore 3/10/2016 6:42 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
Ya know, sometimes the enemy of your enemy is still a jerk.
But better than the alternative!
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 6:42 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
But better than the alternative!
Somehow I'm reminded of a South Park episode where the boys rig the candidacy for school mascot to be either a "giant douche" or a "turd sandwich". When Kyle refuses to vote, because he no longer sees the point, he is banished from town. He eventually resolves to vote when it's explained to him that WRT elections the choice will always be between a douche and a turd.
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 7:07 AM
On the subject of gay marriage and any of it's opponents refusing to support it, albeit indirectly, the whole thing could have been avoided. As far as I know "marriage" is a religious institution. And I don't know of any secular religions that advocate homosexuality. So that's that. Anyone here that knows me knows I'm pretty damned far from being anti gay or prone to discrimination. It's just that, in light of the circumstances, gays being allowed to marry on the basis of not discriminating against sexual orientation is roughly equal to men being allowed to use the ladies room so they don't suffer gender discrimination. Obviously people will be offended and now public reaction will need to be regulated by laws. F'in stupidity on everyone's part. If the radical gay and gay sympathetic community could have settled for a legally equal union of any name other than "marriage" none of this would be an issue. So instead we now must redefine "marriage" as not being specific to a religious rite. Anyone else seeing a problem here!?! F'in semantics.

And just to be clear, I'm not religious anyway. I have no dog in this fight. So, now that we've LEGALLY redefined "marriage" as being either a secular or non secular union, it's over. The opponents are therefor subject to discrimination laws. Period. They don't get a choice anymore because the system they put in place decided on these laws. Refusing to abide now is certainly more "un-American" than no prayer in schools. Guess what a-holes, you chose the people that chose this issue so now you don't have a choice anymore. Make the F'in cake.

All this prattling.?. Why do people always seem to love drama more than plain recognition and common sense? We should be looking for ways to NOT be adversarial. Not the other way around.
 
rjb 3/11/2016 9:36 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
As far as I know "marriage" is a religious institution. And I don't know of any secular religions that advocate homosexuality.
Just off of the top of my head:
Marriage Equality | UUA.org
OK, some may say they're an "association", not a secular religion.

In the USA, gay marriages are performed in some (not all) Anglican/Episcopalian and Quaker parishes and in Presbyterian churches in states where gay marriage is legal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homosexuality
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 9:48 AM
Well I probably should have made a few more stipulations, but I already expected to run long at that point I don't mind nit picks that keep it real. The fundamental reasoning remains.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 10:04 AM
The LGBT community didn't really care what it was called, whether marriage, or something else.
The issue was it being recognized by all government agencies, so they could qualify for all the benefits of marriage.
Like filing joint tax status, SS benefits, insurance, inheritance, etc.
The right always wanted to call it civil unions, but not give the benefits of marriage.
Now that the LGBT's have their legal rights and benefits, you hear very little from that community!
Hopefully it's over!
T
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 10:34 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
The LGBT community didn't really care what it was called, whether marriage, or something else.
The issue was it being recognized by all government agencies, so they could qualify for all the benefits of marriage.
Like filing joint tax status, SS benefits, insurance, inheritance, etc.
The right always wanted to call it civil unions, but not give the benefits of marriage.
I hadn't realized that this was the position of the protagonist lobby. Probably because it was never brought up by any of my gay friends (distinctly NOT lobbyists) when discussing my position. Their side was always about the moniker. They didn't want to be made out as differentiated. Which is NOT the same thing as being discriminated against. I do recall that many states that were willing to accept legal union weren't offering all the same benefits as marriage though. I would have thought THAT was the problem to be solved for. That would have eliminated the position of any religious opposition. But that's not how it went. Hmmm...

I actually have a conspiracy theory about the whole debacle, but I'll spare everyone

Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Hopefully it's over!
Until someone wants a cake!
 
Steve A. 3/11/2016 10:34 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
The Little Sister's case isn't just paperwork. The insurance they purchase has to provide birth control, even if they are told they aren't providing the funds, they are!
Little Sisters to Supreme Court: We Cannot Choose Between Our Care for the Poor and Our Faith | Daily News | NCRegister.com
Thanks for providing a better link than I found in a Google search. There is a better solution here that I have not heard expressed in the news: in cases like this (and Hobby Lobby) have the federal govt pay for mandates that the business opposes due to religious reasons.

As for "gay marriage", government shouldn't be in the marriage business. A civil union would be the best way to ensure equal protections under the law, but the gender confused want to rub their behavior in everyone's faces.
Not my experience at all! The LGBT generally do not care about the religious ceremony and Biblical covenant- they are just interested in the legal aspects such as being able to visit with their partner in the ER and sharing in retirement and tax benefits granted to married couples.

The case of the baker, they had baked cakes before for the folks, but they said their conscience wouldn't allow them to bake a wedding cake, (hence being part of the ceremony). The florists also had dealt with the people who sued them, but once again didn't want to be part of the ceremony.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...-Lay-With-Man/
Same-sex marriage has absolutely nothing to do with the physical act... they already have that!

If you don't think organisations are an entity, why are they taxed, even though they are owned by shareholders, who are then taxed on the proceeds after the government get taxes from the corporation? Double taxation!
How is that any different from any employee who pays income tax working for a company that has already paid income tax on their revenues?
For 50 years now I have been in favor of a system in which revenue is taxed at its creation (corporate income tax) with employees earning proportionally less in tax-free wages.
The current system is like 52 card pickup with a pack of cards scattered throughout a room with the state and federal govt finding and picking up each card to cut off the appropriate amount for taxes. Why not have them cut off their share from the deck of cards before it is scattered throughout the room?

In any case the issue here is not taxation but whether corporations should have 1st Amendment rights granted to citizens.

She said I had to work on her car, then I told her if we don't trust each other, it's not going to work. She should find someplace where she trusts the people to get her work done, we ended up fixing her car, and worked on her next one until her death. Others I have refused, and that's my business!
Practically all businesses have policies of refusing service to anyone on their own discretion but the Civil Rights Act of 1964 says that such refusal cannot be based on nationality, race, religion or gender.

Steve A.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 10:48 AM
Very well put Steve.
You should have been an equal rights attorney.
T
 
Steve A. 3/11/2016 10:48 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
If the radical gay and gay sympathetic community could have settled for a legally equal union of any name other than "marriage" none of this would be an issue. So instead we now must redefine "marriage" as not being specific to a religious rite. Anyone else seeing a problem here!?! F'in semantics.
I addressed this issue in a previous post: to rewrite all relevant state, local and federal laws and regulations replacing the word "marriage" with the term "legal union" would have been a monumental task that would have cost billions if not trillions of dollars in legal fees. Much simpler to redefine the term "marriage" as a legal contract (not as a religious covenant.)

Steve A.

P.S. Chuck, I agree with you that LGBT (BLT?) couples like to refer to their partners as husbands and wives joined together in marriage rather than having to use terms which could apply equally to temporary hook-ups. But I think that they are more concerned about the legal aspects rather than the religious connotations.
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 10:54 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
the Civil Rights Act of 1964 says that such refusal cannot be based on nationality, race, religion or gender.
And later acts on individual matters have included sexual identity and/or orientation. With the majority of exclusions being in the fair housing arena. And that was corrected by new regulations in 2012 (I think). There are probably still some indiscretions as a result of the LGBT not being included in the 1964 act though. Is it legal to discriminate against them over a cake? Or is it just an issue when that cake is for a legal wedding that offends the bakers religious sensibilities? Is the problem that there aren't any comprehensive laws on the matter? And how murky does that water get if you have laws mitigating religious beliefs!?!

See where this goes. The whole thing was created to be confounded. It's purpose is to be a diversion. But I digress.
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 11:00 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
I addressed this issue in a previous post: to rewrite all relevant state, local and federal laws and regulations replacing the word "marriage" with the term "legal union" would have been a monumental task that would have cost billions if not trillions of dollars in legal fees. Much simpler to redefine the term "marriage" as a legal contract (not as a religious covenant.)

Steve A.
Maybe. But I don't think so. Watch... Nothing up my sleeve...

"Legal union" rights as they apply to all non religious couplings recognized by the government rather than the church shall be equal to those currently afforded to legal marriage.

Attach an amendment number to it and Bob's your uncle. With much less religious fallout.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 11:40 AM
I'm all for calling it for what it is, Marriage!
Personally I think gay couples should have the right to the same misery that us straight couples endure!
It's called Marriage!
T
 
cbass 3/11/2016 12:36 PM
The real winner in all this gay marriage issue .

Is the divorce attorneys
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 12:49 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
I'm all for calling it for what it is, Marriage!
Personally I think gay couples should have the right to the same misery that us straight couples endure!
It's called Marriage!
T
I hope no one get's me wrong on this. I really don't care what they call it. I was only pointing out that some of the problems resulting from the whole situation could have been avoided if people weren't so thin skinned.
 
Enzo 3/11/2016 1:26 PM
yeah, I am married, I have no interest in being "unioned", and there isn;t a damned bit of religion involved. SO marriage is civil AND religious, depending on what you are discussing.

My wife and I lived together 18 years before we got married. if we hadn't, she would have no say in any medical decisions for me and vice versa. We wouldn't be able to cross insure our health. Without a involved will, upon my death, my assets would go who knows where. We wouldn't qualify for the senior housing we live in today.
 
Bill Moore 3/11/2016 1:39 PM
It is evidently more than equal treatment! My state did the civil union thing years ago, but we still had folks beating up on county clerks wanting a "marriage"! Finally went to the state supreme court, (democrats, mostly), now there is a legal "marriage".
The US supreme court decided that there is a federal right to "marriage equality", even though the constitution never mentions the word!
Senate Bill text for SB0012
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 2:00 PM
How does marriage equality hurt any straight people.
It doesn't.
My family & I, are not threatened or harmed in any way by marriage equality.
T
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 3:02 PM
The reasons marriage was limited to heterosexual couples are still religious. I often thought it was strange that non religious people got to participate. In which case some sort of "Legal Union" would have to apply for anyone that wasn't religious. And I'm fine with that. Certainly there are Christians who aren't heterosexual. But according to "the Book" homosexuality is an abomination so they can't get married. Marriage has been recognized as civil union only because of the strength of it's religious origins. And I'll wager that the only reason it ever received civil benefits is because God was (and is I suppose) so often employed as an attribute of our government. Certainly more so in history. "Vote for me and all good married Christians get a tax break." Then we started printing Gods name on our money!?! In this light I guess we've kicked marriage so much by now that removing it utterly from it's original context hardly matters. But...

That's some unprecedented ground we're walking on. Taking a religious covenant, slather it in melted cheese and stick it into a bun and make McMarriage out of it. Literally remaking it into something it's not and forcing it's true advocates to recognize an ideology inconsistent with their religious beliefs. I'm pretty sure you go to hell for that. I'm only stating what should have been a strong argument from the religious opposition as devils advocate

As I said, I'm NOT religious. I don't even like the idea of it. But it's not my place to make that decision for others. I am, however, sympathetic enough to recognize that we (the US) gave everyone freedom of religion and then took a piece of that back after all. Well, sort of. Not much different in effect than if the Satanists lobbied to call their religion "The Christians" and the US granted it to them.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 3:31 PM
The book you refer to, has no relevance to law. The Marriage license does.
A marriage license today is nothing more than a legal contract document, You buy the license at the court house, not from a church!
The License has to be signed by a person legally sanctioned to marry people, either a licensed marrying minister , or just a justice of the peace.
Oh well if we get a republican or Trump for our dictator, I mean President, then he will probably change all of that back!
T
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 3:56 PM
But that's just it! TODAY it's nothing more than a legal union because we've been pissing all over it. We used God as a mascot and in return we were allowed to "bend" the rules a bit by incorporating marriage with a legally recognized union. Then we attached laws to it, but still there was nothing offensive to American/Christians who were thus far happy with the hybrid marriage/law/God on our money thing. Which is bad enough really. And not less than a "sin" already. But now this last move allowing homosexual marriage is literally anti Christian in that it makes marriage distinctly something other than what the Bible recognizes and is in fact "an abomination". There are a lot of people that still subscribe to the beliefs in that book and I'm pretty sure those beliefs aren't supposed to have "lee way". And, like it or not, that's where marriage comes from. If what it "was" no longer matters that's a very clear indication that nothing about that book does. I don't see how if you bastardize something long enough it somehow becomes justified. I have my own beliefs and if the government tried to tell me how I was allowed to believe them I'd be pissed. In fact I often am. And if I were a Christian I'd be pretty pissed right now.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 4:13 PM
I respectfully disagree.
The number one function of marriage is the legal contract.
Whether you want to wrap it in religion, or just keep it simple & legal, is up to you.
The legal contract is about property and children.
How you perform and celebrate your marriage, and the rest is up to you.
There has been weddings and marriages since the beginning of time with and without religion.
My wife and I are Married and have been 47+, I'm married to her and her alone, religion has nothing to do with it.
T
 
Bill Moore 3/11/2016 5:58 PM
I too have been married to my bride for 47 yrs., and wouldn't have it any other way!
The actual subject of marriage was about legal affairs, as even in the old testament, we hear about concubines, and they had rules to deal with "bastard" sons. King David was the 10th generation, (which was the time required for "bastards" to inherit a title.) A marriage dictated property, and title, due to relationships.
In this country, I think one reason for the state, (not the feds!), to get involved, was to ensure that incest didn't occur. In the early days of our nation, with the low population, many cousins did marry. I guess that really isn't a factor in the same sex idea, as two roosters can't make an egg!
We did have a problem starting in the 80's with disease being spread by homosexual behavior, I think they have treatments now, but still no cure. Would it be in the interest of the state to attempt to restrict behavior that leads to disease? We increased funding for AIDS research, even though there are other diseases that affect a larger percentage of the population, why?
 
loudthud 3/11/2016 5:59 PM
One of the functions marriage took on in the early days was to decide who inherited what when you died as opposed to having every bastard child claiming part of the estate. Que Perry Mason theme.

Many years ago it was said that in Russia, a marriage lasted for a predetermined amount of time. I wonder if that has changed. There are also other countries that have definitions of marriage different than the US. I don't think gay marriage is allowed in Russia. Is it allowed in other countries?
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 6:18 PM
I agree that in the US, that incest was a big reason for Marriage, and records.
When I married, you had to take a Test for STDs.

Countries where gay marriage is legal, besides the USA.

The Netherlands (2000)

Belgium (2003)

Canada (2005)

Spain (2005)

South Africa (2006)

Norway (2009)

Sweden (2009)

Argentina (2010)

Iceland (2010)

Portugal (2010)

Denmark (2012)

Brazil (2013)

England and Wales (2013)

France (2013)

New Zealand (2013)

Uruguay (2013)

Luxembourg (2014)

Scotland (2014)

Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)

Ireland: (2015)
 
Enzo 3/11/2016 6:38 PM
But it is all so pick and choose now. Homosexuality is an abomination, but if you read your Leviticus, so is eating shellfish. So anyone dining at Red Lobster has sinned in the eyes of the lord.

I recommend this book:
The Year of Living Biblically ? AJ Jacobs ? Official Website

It is a light read. it is respectful, he is not out to in your face anyone, it is an honest attempt to live by the bibles rules for a year.

I have read other books by the author, but I liked this one best.
 
rjb 3/11/2016 6:55 PM
Hoo, boy.
Ben Carson endorses Donald Trump for president | Newsday
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 6:57 PM
Look, I'm not saying that marriage isn't primarily a legal contract. I'm saying that we made it that way and if there's a limit to how much bastardization the government (or a culture) should be allowed to inflict on a religious institution it has been passed. It might be an old book written in a dead language but there are something like four and a half billion people in the world that think it's still important and some of them may not want to bake a cake now.

Not sure what concubines or land deals being involved have to do with it. Sort of peripheral to the point. I'm pretty sure that neither record predate the Bible and how it defines marriage. Probably because they're in that book as a matter of record regarding the story as it was told.

I could actually keep debating this because nothing about what I've said has actually been negated, only demonstrated as not being so in the modern world. And as I've already stated, I'm really not personally invested in it. It's just an aspect of the issue that has been largely ignored by the gay marriage proponents even though it significantly affects how a particular segment of the population is allowed to celebrate their beliefs. I would have expected more sympathy considering the parties involved.

I'm going to peaceably bow out now in the interest of not crossing a line. Know that I'm really just debating for it's own sake anyhow and I'm actually happy for my gay friends that are married now. It just sucks that for one GROUP to be happy another GROUP has to lose. Especially when there were reasonable and copacetic alternatives and either GROUP is a lot of people. But I know that also depends on common human failings. Peoples needs aren't always their necessities.
 
g1 3/11/2016 7:05 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Hey Canadians here that discuss our american politics?
I saw your new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau on CNN, and he can't even read a teleprompter.
He still looks green behind the ears, is that the best you could do?
Did you get him off of the hockey ice, or out of an Arcade somewhere?
IMO looks like Canada needs to improve its vetting process!
T
You can just call me out by name Tee.
He may not seem like much, but you should've seen the one before, it seemed he deliberately tried to lose the election, and was successful!
Anyhoo, being part of the biggest state yet to be annexed, I thought it's ok to post in here?

Some light reading, a newsflash from the future!
Feschuk predicts the arrival of Trump refugees
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 7:13 PM
I agree a lot with you Chuck.
Marriage IMO is a necessity in many ways as a civilized culture.
As a society we would have some form of marriage to protect our children, & families.
Like you pointed out marriage is an institution that has different meanings to different people.

Moving on, The Trump Rally in Chicago was called off due to massive protests.
We will hear about this all weekend.
T
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 7:15 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
You can just call me out by name Tee.
He may not seem like much, but you should've seen the one before, it seemed he deliberately tried to lose the election, and was successful!
Anyhoo, being part of the biggest state yet to be annexed, I thought it's ok to post in here?

Some light reading, a newsflash from the future!
Feschuk predicts the arrival of Trump refugees
You came to mind, but I was really thinking of another guy!
Did You?
Did you pull him off the Ice?
 
g1 3/11/2016 7:17 PM
As long as I'm not getting left out!
 
rjb 3/11/2016 7:17 PM
Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
Some light reading, a newsflash from the future!
Feschuk predicts the arrival of Trump refugees
What a coincidence. I was just about to inquire about seeking asylum in Canada.
 
g1 3/11/2016 7:19 PM
I thought the bit where Cruz ends up leading the Conservative party of Canada was a nice touch.
 
Steve A. 3/11/2016 7:21 PM
Marriage has a long history outside of the Judeo-Christian world so why should Biblical definitions and injunctions be given preferential treatment if we have separation of church and state?

Steve A.
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 7:22 PM
I'm genuinely glad that the thread is getting back on track and I didn't derail it too much I've been enjoying it in all aspects.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 7:31 PM
Hey Chuck:
Since we discuss everything here?
We only need this one thread!
I've enjoyed it too!
T
 
Chuck H 3/11/2016 7:39 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
Marriage has a long history outside of the Judeo-Christian world so why should Biblical definitions and injunctions be given preferential treatment if we have separation of church and state?

Steve A.
I actually don't know of any marriage references that predate the Bible other than those that are accounted in the Bible Polygamy is even referenced. In other cultures of the world there is even polygamy inverse to how we think of it. Several men married to one woman, but that doesn't predate the Bible and wasn't called specifically "marriage" before the Bible.

And part of my point is that church and state are no longer separate when the definitions for marriage are legislated outside of how it's described in the Bible. I'm happy to be wrong if I can learn. I just don't know of any pre Biblical references to "Marriage"

Besides that, the point of "marriage" in this country has always been in association with it's Biblical definition. It's been part of the platform for every generation of government in that exact guise. So now we need to upset all the true believers that have been sold this crap for generations is order to satisfy newer tolerance policies? It just didn't have to happen this way. And besides, it all just a diversionary tactic anyway.
 
Steve A. 3/11/2016 7:42 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
I recommend "Isaac Asimov's Guide to the Old Testament" which was reissued in a single volume which includes the New Testament.

Asimov's Guide to the Bible: Two Volumes in One, the Old and New Testaments: Isaac Asimov: 9780517345825: Amazon.com: Books

He puts much of the Old Testament into a historical perspective. One of the reasons for the strong injunctions against sodomy was that it was an integral part of the pagan worship service. And God did tell the Hebrews to be fruitful and multiply...

Steve A.
 
rjb 3/11/2016 7:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Since we discuss everything here?
We only need this one thread!
Hey, what's for dinner?
 
loudthud 3/11/2016 8:13 PM
President Obama is in Dallas tonight collecting bribes aka "raising money".
 
SpareRibs 3/11/2016 9:44 PM
Hello,
Did anyone notice that Ohio has changed the voting law to include giving 17yr, olds the right to vote. Now before it can be questioned by the fools at the Supreme Court the election will have come and gone.
The question of Cruz's citizenship has just been totally disregarded.
Rubio has lost momentum, and his campaign is broke.
Kasick is bumbling around talking to himself.
Trumps chances are looking better and better.
 
big_teee 3/11/2016 9:56 PM
You can think Bernie for the 17yo voters.
Bernie Sanders Sues Ohio To Allow 17-Year-Olds To Vote In The Primary | ThinkProgress
T
 
Justin Thomas 3/11/2016 10:07 PM
Oh, this is just for primaries? Drat. Hey, let's drop it to 5-year-olds, then maybe we can get some good candidates! I personally vote for SpongeBob & Dora!

Oh, wait... SpongeBob is Canadian. Damn.

Justin
 
cbass 3/12/2016 4:02 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Thats enough for me not to like him.Im absolutely dismayed at the amount of people that want more socialism in this country. Socialism leds to freedom trampling things we already have like . We are gonna setup roadblocks and stop every car that comes through.To keep drunks off the road and keep you safe. Then after that its were gonna go door to door and search everyones house . Just to make sure your not making bombs or anything.
 
Steve A. 3/12/2016 5:38 AM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Thats enough for me not to like him.Im absolutely dismayed at the amount of people that want more socialism in this country.
This lawsuit applies to 17 year olds who will be 18 by November 8th and is in response to a new ruling from the Ohio Secretary of State that they will not be allowed to vote in the primary on March 15th.

>>>In Ohio, as in 21 other states and the District of Columbia, if you will turn 18 years old by the time of the general election, you are permitted to participate in your state’s caucus or primary.
Yet the Buckeye State reversed course and 17-year-olds will no longer be able to vote in the state’s presidential primary on March 15.<<<

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...d-voting-ohio/

As for Bernie Sanders' "democratic socialism" his policies are in line with those of previous Presidents including both Roosevelts, Taft and even Ronald Reagan. Unfortunately the term has many negative connotations.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...lot-like-teddy

http://www.truth-out.org/archive/ite...ican-socialist

Social Security passed by FDR in the 30s was condemned as being socialism yet it allowed most of our senior citizens to live out their lives with dignity. Medicare passed by LBJ in the 60s was also condemned as being socialism but it allowed most of our senior citizens to not have to worry about health care. The same was said about Obamacare which has given people without employer-provided health care reasonable premiums for health insurance. Yes, creeping socialism is a danger to the people in our country. NOT!

Steve A.
 
cbass 3/12/2016 6:50 AM
I had know Idea 17 year olds could vote. Kinda crazy but oh well
.As far as social security. Its a scam. Itts the govt saying " you arent smart enough to manage your money so we are going to force you to give us some and we will use it interest free.You might get some of it back .You might not.
I agree we need some socialism in medicine. Osama care goes about it th wrong way. We need to regulate Drug companies and other huge industries not people and their Drs . I'm sure lower income peole love it. For The working class that are barely making it and paying nearly double what they were a few years ago.Its not such a great deal and the "if you like your policy you can keep it" was a bold face lie
 
cbass 3/12/2016 7:03 AM
I do belive we need some social services but i Just think its gotten way out of control.The ssystem is abused to much and their are generations of eole that havent worked and have no plans to cause they dont have to. We need to minimize the govt not expand it

Anyone else getting trump campaign ads at the to the page? Or do i have a trump virus?
 
Steve A. 3/12/2016 8:59 AM
Getting back to Trump...

>>> Coded racism has now been rebranded as “telling it like it is,” thanks to Trump and the people who think he will be the strong, decisive character they have watched on reality TV if they elect him.<<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...74e_story.html
 
Steve A. 3/12/2016 9:35 AM
Quote Originally Posted by cbass View Post
The system is abused too much and there are generations of people that haven't worked and have no plans to because they don't have to.
Definitely true for those wealthy families who have been inheriting their fortunes for 100+ years...

As for the poor people federal welfare programs were capped at 5 years in 1996 although the implementation of that policy can vary from state to state:

An Update on State Welfare Time-Limit Policies and Their Effects on Families | mdrc

We need to minimize the govt not expand it.
The conservatives have been saying that for 35+ years but when it comes to minimizing tax loopholes for the wealthy people and corporations they sing a different tune. The money spent on social welfare programs is dwarfed by that spent on corporate welfare:

Forbes Welcome

I agree that there is a lot of money wasted in the various gov't bureaucracies but the problem is not with the recipients or the rank & file workers- it is with all of the overpaid managers and supervisors whose jobs were made obsolete with the invention of the personal computer.

It used to be called "civil service" and workers were generally paid less than comparable workers in the private sector (although they usually had very generous benefit packages.) Nowadays they get even better benefits and are earning as much if not more than private sector workers.

IMO it isn't that all gov't is bad or that big gov't is bad... I think that it is bad gov't that is bad, and that unfortunately we have too much of that.

Steve A.
 
cbass 3/12/2016 12:02 PM
You make a lot of good points with sources . I honestly don't know much about welfare laws . It seems as if you keep having babies they keep paying. Many people on HUD and food stamps for life . My woman used to work for a company that managed low income housing there were 3 generations of famioy living in the same projects.
I don't think we should just through poor people out in the street but you need to earn what you get.
My grandfather told me about being so hungry when he was a child that he would wait till everyone went to bed and scrape out the gunk between the table leaves and eat it. Now I don't anyone to have to go through that but he had a fire lit under his ass a d there was know way him and his children were going to go through that.
Would he have been the same person if they just went and got and food stamps and let the govt take care of em? I don't know
 
big_teee 3/12/2016 12:12 PM
I would like to comment on Social Security.
It's not welfare or give away freebie benefits.
I paid into SS. for over 45 years, I worked for a large Corp, and I paid all taxes due.
It is too late for me to work again and do something else.
I expect to get my monthly SS payments due.
All the Nominees on the right act like we need to end SS.
That is BS!
Who knows what Trump would do?
T
 
cbass 3/12/2016 12:25 PM
You wont ever get back near what you put in. According to Obama it's a benefit . I believe it's a benefit as well to the Fed govt.
 
big_teee 3/12/2016 12:32 PM
Most who don't like SS, didn't pay any in.
I was young and invinceable once!
SS, is what keeps old folks from being beggars and dependant on their children.
It should be protected.
Same with Retirement benefits that were earned.
If you retire, the retirement plan should be obligated to pay.
Another thing that the right let businesses welch out of.
Trump, I'm sure would let the big companies welch on retirement, and he doesn't believe in a minimum wage either.
I do.
I think the Donald, just wants to be KING!
Going to the pickup winding shack, got some stuff spoke for I need to get finished.
T
 
Justin Thomas 3/12/2016 1:00 PM
I thought SS was set up as a sort of "mandatory trust fund?" They would hold your payments for you to call on when you retired? I mean this as a separate thing from Disability. As I understand it, the issue is that it's become a Slush Fund that they keep borrowing from and never paying back... either way, the problem lies in the "trust" part... Or lack thereof...

Justin
 
elipsey 3/12/2016 1:09 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
I thought SS was set up as a sort of "mandatory trust fund?" They would hold your payments for you to call on when you retired? I mean this as a separate thing from Disability. As I understand it, the issue is that it's become a Slush Fund that they keep borrowing from and never paying back... either way, the problem lies in the "trust" part... Or lack thereof...

Justin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Define...t_pension_plan

A defined benefit pension plan is a type of pension plan in which an employer/sponsor promises a specified monthly benefit on retirement that is predetermined by a formula based on the employee's earnings history, tenure of service and age, rather than depending directly on individual investment returns.
[...]
In a funded plan, contributions from the employer, and sometimes also from plan members, are invested in a fund towards meeting the benefits. The future returns on the investments, and the future benefits to be paid, are not known in advance, so there is no guarantee that a given level of contributions will be enough to meet the benefits. [The] United States Social Security system is a funded program. It is funded through a payroll tax (FICA) that is paid by employees and employers. The proceeds of this tax are paid into the Social Security Trust Funds[15]
 
Enzo 3/12/2016 2:34 PM
Imagine you put $50 a week into a college fund for your kid, from the day he was born. By the time he is 18 and ready for college, you have $46,800 saved, and that is without interest. Compounding interest over 18 years and you'd have a substantial sum.

Now imagine if every week you put $50 in there, and took it right back out, leaving an IOU. 18 years later you have IOUs, no money, and no accrued interest.

Social security was originally meant to work like that. But congress borrows the money from it as soon as it gets there. So the results are the same as our IOU fund.


Social Security isn't a retirement plan. Yes, many people do retire with nothing other than SS, but that wasn't its purpose. It was put there so that if you didn;t have anything else, you at least had a little to live on so you were not homeless and on the streets hungry. So if you worked all your life and were smart, and invested in safe things like utilities (Enron?) and it all disappeared when Enron went bust, or you worked for some large industrial and your pension evaporated in a bankruptcy, you still had your SS as a hedge. It isn't about they think we are too stupid to save any retirement money. it is about saving us if we wind up short. people who lost all their savings, even professionals. Remember Bernie Madoff? People invested in his company. By their fund income, the investors thought they had $65 billion dollars. In just invested cash, about $18 billion. Almost all of that went away, and people who did what they were supposed to - invest in their retirement - were left without. We all know Enron's story. But what about people who never got the chance to save anything. people lacking ability or even intelligence. Should people suffere just because they aren't very smart? The woman who got pregnant in high school, had two more children by husbands who left her, has no career or job potential, has kids to support, works multiple part time jobs just to pay rent and feed them all. she'll have no retirement. Would we rather have her homeless or on some public assistance?

I never intended to retire, I figured I'd just work until I expired. My heart failure says otherwise, so now here I am with a good decade of income I won't get. I am not alone in this.

Point is a lot of people "on welfare" are not lazy shiftless bums. Most people on public assistance want off of it. Most people on it do not in fact spend their entire lives there. Yes, we can always find a "welfare Cadillac" story if we look, but that is not representative, any more than $4000 guitar amps are representative of the market.


As to not getting it out having paid in. Most of us pay into insurance and never get it out. But while I doubt I will live to 80, we have people here in my apartment who have been retired 30 years and more. I got a friend here 96 years old, and sharp as a tack. I hope my mind lasts as well. he has been on his SS for at least 30 years
 
big_teee 3/12/2016 2:41 PM
Here's an easy booklet for social security.
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10024.pdf
My wife and I have been on it several years.
t does what it supposed to do, help you pay the bills.
If you pay in a lifetime you are entitled to get some back.
A retirement pension is a different thing.
 
big_teee 3/12/2016 3:00 PM
Please don't paint social security as welfare, it's not.
You draw social security based on what you paid in.
 
Justin Thomas 3/12/2016 3:16 PM
The way I read it, Enzo said what I said... if it was left alone, it'd be fine. And yeah, it's not welfare. They're pretty clear to us self-employed folks: pay in OR ELSE!

Justin
 
Chuck H 3/12/2016 3:20 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
You're painting social security as welfare, it's not.
You draw social security based on what you paid in.
It's not welfare.
T
???

I didn't get that impression at all. What he said was that it's a forced investment, but not a very big one. You're going to get it back, but it's NOT going to be greater than it's investment value. Which is the opposite of welfare. He also said that the fed keeps using it with no clue how it's supposed to get back in there.

And I expect they'll continue to until we can't make our interest payments to China anymore. When they foreclose I suppose anyone reaching retirement at that time is just ass out. Not sure. Whatever happens, I don't think it's going to be good. Look what happened to the banks when they leaned on FICA. But there's no way to know what's actually going to happen or exactly when. Maybe everything will be fine too.
 
big_teee 3/12/2016 3:40 PM
I did, he even dropped the welfare bomb.
He made it sound like it was only for the disenfranchised, that didn't save or know how to invest.
It is in fact for everyone to draw that pays in, some more than others.
SS has an important roll to play in our society.
My point is just don't go turning it off, now that we have all paid in, depending on drawing some of it.
SS can be shored up and repaired, it has been several times before.
T

**The term Social Security, in the United States, refers to a specific social insurance program for the retired and the disabled.
 
rjb 3/12/2016 8:37 PM
Rumor Control
What do you-all think inspired Carson's endorsement? Blackmail? Threats on his family?
Ben Carson endorses Donald Trump for president | Newsday
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/12/2016 8:37 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
And yeah, it's not welfare. They're pretty clear to us self-employed folks: pay in OR ELSE!
You bet: 15.3 cents of every dollar earned, SS + Medicare. "Just a little bitty bit, so tiny you would never notice." Well SS better come up with the dosh when I apply and it's going to be very very soon.

Remember the Dubya Bush brain trust was all for putting SS $$ into the stock market, the investment houses Gold Sacks, Bare Sterns etc were all rubbing their hands with glee, all that gummint money to play with, they were having visions of sugarplums weren't they? Bad enough the gummint's already borrowed SS down to a pile of IOU's, how are they going to invest that? And also a good thing the stock investment scheme never took hold, it was looking rather bad around the end of 2008 & early 2009, how they going to 'splain to SS recipients "you're going to take a major haircut like it or not, we just lost 60% of your SS 'trust fund' to the banksters", whilst simultaneously bailing out the same banksters so they could continue to receive their multimillion $$ paychecks and bonuses. W said "don't begrudge them (banksters) their earnings, it takes a lot of talent to run that business."

Talent, like pirate talent.

[IMG]http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p370/Vamp_Senn/Random%20shiz/Gifs/fdsf.gif[/IMG]
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/12/2016 8:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
What do you-all think inspired Carson's endorsement Ben Carson endorses Donald Trump for president
I think we all know by now, except for his surgery brain, the brain surgeon "ain't too tightly wrapped."

I'm sure Trump is very happy to receive attention from all the voters that were going to vote for Dr. Carson. Both of them.
 
loudthud 3/12/2016 9:00 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
The question of Cruz's citizenship has just been totally disregarded.
Apparently all four suits have been dismissed, but appeals are possible.

Pennsylvania judge rules Cruz a natural born citizen, tosses eligibility suit | | Dallas Morning News
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/12/2016 9:18 PM
Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
Apparently all four suits have been dismissed, but appeals are possible.
Last week NY Cruz=Canadian suit not to be considered, dropped by judge: filed too late. woops. 1) If they were serious, why didn't they get the suit filed in time, and B) geeze here we go, letting furriners run the country. Again.
 
Chuck H 3/13/2016 6:42 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
Last week NY Cruz=Canadian suit not to be considered, dropped by judge: filed too late. woops. 1) If they were serious, why didn't they get the suit filed in time,..
 
Chuck H 3/13/2016 6:47 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
And also a good thing the stock investment scheme never took hold, it was looking rather bad around the end of 2008 & early 2009,..
Right. Because SS growth with the US economy was definitely the better option
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/13/2016 9:06 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
Right. Because SS growth with the US economy was definitely the better option
Some major sectors of the US economy were taking a beating at that time, auto manufacturing and investment/finance. But Social Security continues apace, it's just fiat money like the rest of it - not the Italian auto manufacturer - "fiat" meaning, this piece of paper is worth a dollar because "we say so." Or your Soc Sec deposit, much the same. Meanwhile the Social Security "trust fund" accumulates a taller pile of IOU's, worth the paper they're printed on. As long as the fiat money doesn't collapse (what gold bugs & preppers are expecting) everything's OK. It's a bitter laugh to see our congresspersons & prez candidates scheme to keep Soc Sec going into the future, all with "monopoly money." Sure, it's no trouble at all to keep the system going, hell we'll just print up more money! All it takes is paper & ink.
 
SpareRibs 3/13/2016 11:54 AM
Hello,
Did anyone even think to mention (STOP THE F*****G WARS). At the least estimate I heard was on TV, it may have been a casual comment, however the cost was ( TWO MILLION DOLLARS A MINUTE ). Thanks Bush.
For the SS problem, raise the cap from $100.000 to $250.000. A lot of the wealthy surpass the cap in their first pay period of the year. SS should be means tested. If you have an estimated retirement income over $1.000.000, we shouldn't be paying for your golf balls.
I know there are the bastards that say (WE PAID INTO IT). The benefits are paid according to your work history, however the payments come only from your first $100.000 each year, then your monthly payments are based on your total lifetime income.
Same thing, the wealthy paid in on the first $100.000, at the time of retirement that may be their monthly benefit.
While I am venting, Do we really need 1000 Admirals when the Navy only has a little over 300 ships. In addition to that, do we need those Admirals retiring at 95% of their service pay.
The Military is bloated at the top. Do we need the ranking officers from every force on TV testifying on CNN on a daily basis, that they haven't got enough money to be prepared for future conflicts.
The VA has a serious problem also, It is servicemen and women who enlist for four to six years and use the VA as a lifetime insurance plan. The winos in Chicago (where I lived for a few years ) use it to lay up in the winter under the guise of alcohol rehabilitation, every year.
Those are some of the problems that need to be addressed.
 
big_teee 3/13/2016 12:05 PM
I know there are the bastards that say (WE PAID INTO IT).
Really?
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/13/2016 12:11 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
While I am venting, Do we really need 1000 Admirals when the Navy only has a little over 300 ships. In addition to that, do we need those Admirals retiring at 95% of their service pay.
Not just the military, we have a helluva lot of paycheck padding in the public sector for about-to-retire executives. You only have a couple years left as police captain? You move to another town, your political pals appoint you police chief, serve a year or two then collect two pension checks plus your social security upon retirement. Same for fire department chiefs. There's a ring-around-the-rosy of school superintendents in this area that practice the same game. In my school district, a couple years ago the school board hired a new stuporintendent who hardly ever showed up for meetings, did nothing for the schools, served less than a year then collects a full pension from our suffering taxpayers, including me. Less than a year, full pension? That don't seem right, but that's what was in his contract, tough noogies taxpayers, pay up. Like W said "don't begrudge them their paychecks & benefits. It takes a lot of TALENT to fill these positions." Yes the talent to waste taxpayer's hard earned money. I hope at least the school board members that approved his contract are receiving a handsome kickback.
 
Chuck H 3/13/2016 12:18 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
You only have a couple years left as police captain? You move to another town, your political pals appoint you police chief, serve a year or two then collect two pension checks plus your social security upon retirement.
Whaaa? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, 'cause I don't know. But one or two years of service qualifying a pension sounds fishy enough that I would think it'd flag something.?.
 
SpareRibs 3/13/2016 12:20 PM
[QUOTE=big_teee;416112][B][COLOR="#FF0000"]I know there are the bastards that say (WE PAID INTO IT). [/COLOR][/B] I did say that, & I am not a Bastard, and yes I do resent that. :thumbsdown: T[/QUOTE] Hello, I am sorry you misunderstood my comment, or maybe I was not clear. I am talking about the people who were taxed the least on their first $100.000 in their first pay period, and then expect to withdraw the amount based on their income over the past 35 years, which would exceed millions. I did not mean for anyone on this board to take offense, as anyone with that problem is probably not reading this. The post was not aimed at you or anything you said, please do not take it as such.
 
big_teee 3/13/2016 12:22 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
Hello,
I am sorry you misunderstood my comment, or maybe I was not clear. I am talking about the people who were taxed the least on their first $100.000 in their first pay period, and then expect to withdraw the amount based on their income over the past 35 years, which would exceed millions.
I did not mean for anyone on this board to take offense, as anyone with that problem is probably not reading this.
You have the opportunity to change your post.

T
 
tedmich 3/13/2016 12:22 PM
its a pretty safe assumption that anyone at the very top of anything does whatever the hell they want, bolts from the blue from a "higher power" being exceptionally rare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/us...om-donors.html

Here is a troubling take on Trump's personality, which sadly rings quite true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/op...av=MostEmailed


And an understanding of why he wanted to run:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us...av=MostEmailed
 
SpareRibs 3/13/2016 2:19 PM
Hello,
What would you have me change ???
 
Steve A. 3/13/2016 4:22 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SpareRibs View Post
Hello, I am sorry you misunderstood my comment, or maybe I was not clear. I am talking about the people who were taxed the least on their first $100.000 in their first pay period, and then expect to withdraw the amount based on their income over the past 35 years, which would exceed millions.
The maximum annual Social Security benefit for a single retiree is around $49,000 and that assumes that they contributed the maximum amount through age 70. I worked my butt off for 35 years and collect around $24,000 a year.

I agree with the rant against overpaid executives in the private sector. It used to be called "civil service" with excellent benefits offsetting a salary lower than what they would earn in the private sector. (The public agencies were huge so they could negotiate good prices for the benefits.)

To make matters worse the overpaid executives usually contribute to pension systems other than Social Security which have no benefit caps, often collecting over $300,000 a year. To add insult to injury their contracts often specified that the public agency would make the specified employee contributions to their pensions.

Both the public and private sectors don't accept the fact that PCs have largely made middle management obsolete. Whereas these positions might have once required much skill and experience in making the correct decisions computer programs can now crunch the numbers and spell out the options in a split-second.

Steve A.
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/13/2016 7:25 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
The maximum annual Social Security benefit for a single retiree is around $49,000
[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5f/dd/bb/5fddbb23b1f28a58484c3980c50bc4de.jpg[/IMG]

Oh my lovey, that's preposterous! How is anybody to get by on a mere pittance of $49,000 dollars a year? Just unthinkable! Open another champagne will you, and let's toast the working poor, shall we?

- - - - - - - - - -

Good on you for your $24K/y soc sec Steve! I'm expecting something around $11 grand, if that. Back to work now... and forever more.
 
Steve A. 3/13/2016 8:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
its a pretty safe assumption that anyone at the very top of anything does whatever the hell they want, bolts from the blue from a "higher power" being exceptionally rare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/us...om-donors.html

Here is a troubling take on Trump's personality, which sadly rings quite true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/op...av=MostEmailed


And an understanding of why he wanted to run:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us...av=MostEmailed
For a different view of Trump here is Robert Reich's latest blog post, The American Fascist ..

Robert Reich (The American Fascist)

BTW if Sanders isn't nominated I would like to see Robert Reich on the ticket with Hillary!

Steve A.
 
Leo_Gnardo 3/13/2016 8:41 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
if Sanders isn't nominated I would like to see Robert Reich on the ticket with Hillary
Heck, Reich would make a dandy POTUS! Move aside Hillary, the poser.
 
Mark Hammer 3/14/2016 6:07 AM
Here's what I don't get about Trump supporters.

At one level, they respond to the "make America great again" line. Fine. Hope and enthusiasm are always good things.

But ask those same people a different question and they will tell you that "America is the greatest country in the world". Not the 17th best or even 9th best, but the greatest.

So what exactly is going on? Is it the greatest, or has it sunk? Make up your bloody mind and reconcile those two assumptions. If you want to say it is potentially the greatest country, fine. BUt is can't be "the greatest" AND need to become "great again" at the same time.

Fareed Zakaria had an interesting guest on yesterday's episode of GPS - a political scientist from UNC, I think. After extensive polling, he found that the most powerful predictors of a given voter being a Trump supporter were not education, or socioeconomic status, or ethnicity. Rather, it was the composite of 4 simple parenting-style questions, regarding what one desires and encourages in one's children. Those people who wanted their kids to be well-behaved, compliant, do what they're told, and have good manners (as opposed to being self-sufficient, adventurous, curious) were substantially more likely to be Trump supporters. He noted this was the profile of folks who prefer a more authoritarian leader - in other words a preference for order.
 
Justin Thomas 3/14/2016 6:12 AM
And if xenophobia, paranoia, and continual warfare are what will make America "great again," I'm not sure I really <WANT> America to be "great."

Justin
 
Bill Moore 3/14/2016 9:13 AM
I am now drawing my SS, but just a little over 20K a year, (working for others, i paid in a lot, but self employment hasn't contributed much). If something isn't done, it will soon be insolvent, hence the need to reform it for the next generation. Every plan I have heard to "fix" it, only affects those who have years ago before retirement, leaving those of us stuck with the current system. When more folks were putting money in, than those talking it out, it was in great shape, but all the feds saw was a large stash of money to give away, and increase their election chances.
Seems funny that a private company that I worker for for only 8 years, had a retirement program that is now paying me almost half as much as what I get from SS! Why couldn't we do that on a national scale?
 
tedmich 3/14/2016 10:56 AM
"Make American great again" is the same message Reagan was making; a return to the near perfect days of the 1950s where there was (seemingly) no struggle for scarce resources. The US got to systematically divide the worlds resources (with the CCCP) after WWII while the US economy was transformed into a consumer Ponzi scheme. Meanwhile the business world was figuring out how to demobilize the industrial might it had created to achieve 2 goals in WWII:
1 defeat the (largely economically) created fascism in Germany/Italy/Japan, all while making tons of $
2 assure that the US population didn't wrest power from the business/capital class after they nuked the economy in the great depression

The solution seen by industry was to demobilize the working class in the US. The consumer economy was retained but only through the use of massive credit as the real capital flowed two places:
1 out of the US to lower wages in the rest of the world (a minor transition)
2 into a more efficient imaginary economy where very few have almost everything (the major one)

the political parties have tried, through various rhetorical methods, to assure the newly impotent populace that they will again gain the status they (very briefly) achieved after WWII. Both parties have been using the "bait and switch" of identifying the guilty party of "making America not great" as being the only other visibly identifiable popular movements in the US. The nightly news had endless images of pesky minority people forcefully requesting minor rights, like voting, representation and the right to not be extra-judicially killed (lynched). Surely these visually disparate people were the ones working to increase the impotence of the previously privileged group; its a zero sum game THEM up/ US down.

The average worker, for whatever reason, was much more willing to believe that the only people who benefit LESS than they do from our economy was responsible for their getting iced out of the economic pie. This is in spite of the fact that the (seemingly racially/ ethnically/sexually identical) management of all of their businesses was trying 24/7 to minimize/remove them from the economic equation. This was achievable because the stock market became capitalized to the degree that brick and mortar businesses could base all their decisions solely on their efficiency at generating capital, and nothing else. A tiny part of the (dumb antiquated) consumer economy moved to lower wages outside the US, while the vast majority of real capital shifted (or was created out of nothing) in the efficient imaginary economy.

Trump is a double dose of opium for the masses:
He reaffirms all of their mistaken prejudices that the economic losers are pulling down the rest of us