big_teee 8/21/2015 6:58 AM
Bobbin Dimensions
Hi All:
I took a stab at 7 string bobbin dimensions. See Pic.
Can someone measure the internals of a 7 string bobbin and let me know if mine is correct?
So if need be, I can correct my Data!

Thanks,
Terry
 
copperheadroads 8/21/2015 11:40 AM
WSC 7 string bobbins from Mojo
length of core 2.67"
H .233"
W .256"
Flange .690"
 
big_teee 8/21/2015 12:27 PM
Thanks Copper.
Is that still a 61mm, or 2.40" spaced bobbin?
You can give that in inches or mm.
I presume neck and bridge bobbins are the same?
T
**edit
So that ends up with something in the ballpark about like this screen shot?
 
copperheadroads 8/21/2015 4:50 PM
I only have the one spacing which is 2.40"
 
big_teee 8/31/2015 8:43 AM
Here's some basic full sized blade humbucker info I just came up with, after measuring some old Guitar USA bobbins.
Not sure if these bobbins are like others currently available.
I also have 43, & 44 bridge data available if anyone needs it.
The Flange is actually .700" wide.
I use .5700" for calculations, because the wind channel is less on the end than on the sides.
Thus reasonably limiting the turns count available.
T
 
big_teee 9/1/2015 10:06 AM
Any 8 string bobbin data out there?
If anyone has a 8 string plastic bobbin they could measure, I'll put it in my Database.
Also any Music Maker bobbin core data would be appreciated.
Thanks,
T
 
big_teee 9/9/2015 4:13 PM
If anyone has a pickup in particular that I can work up data for, let me know?
I'll see what I can do.
You will need the following bobbin data.
Core Length, width, height, and flange diameter, all data in Inches.
T
 
big_teee 6/3/2016 8:20 AM
Been looking for Filtertron Bobbin Dimensions.
I have this, but if you have any other Filtertron bobbin dimensions please post it here.
Here is what I have come up with so far.
Thanks,
T
**Here is some Filtertron widing data to go with Dimension data.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...ickupsinfo.pdf
 
Jason Rodgers 6/3/2016 1:09 PM
I have some Mojo 8-string bobbins. I'll try to remember to take a look this weekend.
 
big_teee 6/3/2016 1:38 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rodgers View Post
I have some Mojo 8-string bobbins. I'll try to remember to take a look this weekend.
That would be great.
They show the bobbin but give no dimensions.
8 String Humbucker Screw Side Bobbin Black
Thanks,
T
 
rjb 6/3/2016 7:52 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Been looking for Filtertron Data.
I have this, but if you have any other Filtertron data please post it here.
Here's some more info & hearsay from earlier posts.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...ickupsinfo.pdf
http://patentimages.storage.googleap.../US2896491.pdf
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t11489/#post89700
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t11489/#post90031

Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
**I also read that some Filtertrons were wired in parallel instead of Series.
So if anyone has any info to add on Filtertrons in parallel, please let us know?
Here's some rumination on the above information:

We know the earliest Filtertron bobbins were narrower (and a little taller) than PAF bobbins. At any rate, they didn't hold much wire.
Consensus seems to be they were wound with ~3000 turns of #42, for a DCR of ~2K per bobbin.

A big selling point in Ray Butts' patent was that the pickups could be constructed to produce "hi-fi" output, with resonant frequency above 20 KHz. The patent states that the coils can be wired either in series or parallel, and hints they may be wound with less than 1000 turns of wire.

In order to achieve the "high fidelity" goal, one would use a low number of turns, and wire the coils in parallel.
I would venture such pickups would use no more than 3000 turns of #42 per coil (possibly quite fewer) and have a DCR no higher than about 1K. I would also venture that, as with the Les Paul Recording model guitar, few customers actually liked the hi-fi pickups. That would explain why Chet Atkins reportedly used a series-wired neck pickup (~4K), and had Shot Jackson drastically over-wind his bridge pickup.

Anyone who wants to experiment with hi-fi (low turns, parallel coil) Filtertrons can do so and decide for himself how he likes the result.

Excerpts from the Filtertron patent:
In accordance with the present invention pickups may be constructed which electrically reproduce the acoustical output of the vibrating musical members with full fidelity because they have response characteristics that are linear over a frequency range at least as great as that of the audible range of musical instruments. The resonant frequency of these pickups, in contradistinction to prior-art devices, which usually had a resonance within the audible range, is in the order of 20 kc. or more. Also, the electrical parameters of the new pickups of my invention are such that the linear response normally will provide the desirable constant velocity response characteristic, i.e., rises evenly and smoothly at 6 db per octave.

...the inductance and distributed capacity of the pickup are such that its resonant frequency is 20 kc. or greater. Even with the usual length of coupling cable and the amplifier input component parameters considered, the resonance is still outside the normal audible range.

The two ends of the wire forming coil C1 and the two ends of the wire forming coil C2 are connected in phase electrically, either by physically connecting them in parallel, or connecting them in series (as shown at terminals T1 and T2). In either instance, whether a series or a parallel wiring connection is made, the electrical phasing is such that the signals generated in coils C1 and C2 by any one movement of a string are effectively complementary and made to aid each other in either a voltage or a current sense.

Because several hundreds or thousands of turns of wire are used in each of the coils C1, C2,...
 
big_teee 6/3/2016 8:01 PM
Thanks, but really looking for pickup dimension data.
As in bobbin measurements.
This is a Bobbin Dimensions Thread!
Terry

**Changed post 8 from data to dimensions.
 
rjb 6/3/2016 9:10 PM
I have seen "vintage size" Filtertron bobbins for sale- but never with dimensions listed. Same old story.
Gretsch Filtertron Pickup Bobbins Nylon SET OF 2 ORG Vintage Size | eBay

I concur that a "hi-fi" Filtertron would have pretty low output. But the patent language makes it pretty clear that Mr. Butts' goal wasn't thick tone. I don't doubt that a Filtertron could be wound to have a loaded resonant frequency over 20 KHz- but I do doubt if many, if any, were sold.

** Sorry for not attributing you as finder of the Gretsch data. I just thought is was more expedient to link the pdf directly than to link to a link. (Note that I didn't attribute myself for originally posting the patent in an earlier thread...)
 
big_teee 6/4/2016 11:06 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rodgers View Post
I have some Mojo 8-string bobbins. I'll try to remember to take a look this weekend.
Any luck measuring the 8 string bobbin?
In inches decimal please.
Length?
Width?
Height?
Flange?

T
 
mr fab 6/4/2016 1:11 PM
hi terry
allparts sell filtertron pickup kits, you may wish to ask them the dimensions.

https://www.allparts.com/PU-6991-000...it_p_4789.html

they look suspiciously a lot like firebird bobbins

fab
 
big_teee 6/4/2016 2:31 PM
Quote Originally Posted by mr fab View Post
hi terry
allparts sell filtertron pickup kits, you may wish to ask them the dimensions.

https://www.allparts.com/PU-6991-000...it_p_4789.html

they look suspiciously a lot like firebird bobbins

fab
Thanks, but I already have that All Parts dimension data, in post 8.
Looking for any other gretch, & Rick, dimensions, for the bigger ones like TV Jones sells.
http://tvjones.com/pickups-2/filtertron-style/
http://tvjones.com/resources/technic...up-dimensions/
And, some with the taller bobbins?
Maybe they are just an illusion?

Also for any other unusual pickup bobbins, out there, like the 7 & 8 string HB bobbin?
T
 
Jason Rodgers 6/5/2016 10:01 AM
Ok, I have a Mojo 8-string slug bobbin sitting in front of me and I put the Brown & Sharpe to it to find...
- Flange length: 3.555"
- Flange width: .697"
- Bobbin total height: .365"
- Core length: 3.065"
- Core width: .248"
- Inside height: .242"
- Outside poles, center to center: 2.805"
 
big_teee 6/5/2016 10:22 AM
Thanks, Jason!
I will try to enter the dimensions, and work up something tonight.
T

**If you have any rare bobbin dimension data out there, that needs to be preserved, please list it here in this thread!
 
big_teee 6/6/2016 9:10 AM
Here's some 8 string humbucker data I worked up.
I did 42, 43 neck, and 42, 43, & 44 Bridge Data.
T
 
big_teee 9/13/2016 11:16 AM
Here's the Dimensions for the Allpart, & WTone PAF type humbucker Bobbins.
The Data is subjective, and is general to show a place to start.
I would try 4900, & 6000 turns respectively!
T
 
big_teee 3/5/2017 9:26 AM
5 and 6 string bass bobbin dimensions of all types wanted.
There is very limited multi string bass and guitar bobbin data out there.
If you have access to anything odd, please mic it, and post it here.
Especially looking for 5 string P-bass bobbin dimensions right now.
Thanks,
T
 
kayakerca 3/5/2017 3:17 PM
I am starting to think about adding 4 and 5 string bass pickups to my product offering (since I have the new "bobbin cutt'n" Epilog Mini 40 watt laser cutter/engraver all up and runn'n ). I was planning on starting with the dimensions (string spacing of covers) for 5 string j-bass from the bobbins at Mojo and/or SD. Well start there anyway.
 
big_teee 3/5/2017 5:07 PM
I still need dimensions.
Mojo lists no outside to outside length dimensions.
I could guess, but would rather someone mic one.
I was hoping someone also had a P-Bass 3 string bobbin to measure.
Length, width, height, flange?
T
 
kayakerca 3/5/2017 7:42 PM
Length, width and flange can all be reasonably measured and come to completely usable values for if you have a cover in hand, as so long as it fits under the cover, those dimensions will not affect tone in any way, shape or form beyond how much wire the bobbin will hold. Yes, height (like amount of wire, wire size, tension, winding pattern, etc.), is going to affect tone, but we all experiment with that dimension anyway as we fine tune aspects of our "formula" of choice that works for players we wind for. And as my wife always makes me say. . . in my opinion anyway.
 
big_teee 3/5/2017 8:37 PM
This is the dimension thread.
Physical dimensions is what I'm after here.
I'm not making a pickup, I'm working on my pickup database.


I have calculated the dimensions the best I can for a 5 string bass 3 string and 2 string bobbin.
I have no 3 string cover to measure.
I came up with 1.8 inch for the 3 string P- bobbin core.
I will adjust my data, if someone can measure a real 3 string bobbin.
Here's what I have for now.
Thanks,
T
 
copperheadroads 3/6/2017 9:54 AM
5 STRING Jazz BASS Mojotone flatwork
bridge .615" x 3.95" out side dimensions
3.23" x .189" core & i forget the height right now ? as it's not assembled (I'm measuring only flatwork )
Neck
.619" x 3.824" out side dimensions
core 3.10 x .189"
 
big_teee 3/6/2017 12:17 PM
Is the .189 for .195 magnets?
Which size will you use in it?
Thanks,
T
 
big_teee 3/6/2017 1:45 PM
Here's jazz data for stock type 5 string Jazz bass.
I made data for .195 magnets.
 
copperheadroads 3/6/2017 2:45 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Is the .189 for .195 magnets?
Which size will you use in it?
Thanks,
T
.187" the extra .002" if for a lacquer dip & or tape ...
 
big_teee 3/6/2017 3:16 PM
Here's the .187 data.
 
David Schwab 3/23/2017 12:14 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Here's jazz data for stock type 5 string Jazz bass.
I made data for .195 magnets.
Why are you winding to resistance? Just wind the same number of turns you normally do for a 4 string Jazz pickup. Same with all the other bobbin types.
 
big_teee 3/23/2017 4:17 PM
David, I'm not winding at all here.
Your post was off-topic.
You need to do a better job of reading the thread, before jumping!
As I said in post 25.
This is the bobbin dimension thread.
Physical bobbin core dimensions is what I'm after here.
I'm not making a pickup, I'm working on adding to, my pickup database.
I record every pickup bobbin dimension I can find for record keeping purposes.
The primary thing I'm recording is the bobbin dimensions, the rest is just general data.
T
 
copperheadroads 3/23/2017 9:14 PM
Quote Originally Posted by David Schwab View Post
Why are you winding to resistance? Just wind the same number of turns you normally do for a 4 string Jazz pickup. Same with all the other bobbin types.
So you don't think the increased DCR for wider spacing will have an effect the tone ?
 
big_teee 5/19/2017 8:47 AM
Looking through my pickup library data?
I have limited Jazz Master bobbin data. Height data is questionable?
If anyone has a JM laying around they could measure, that would be great.
Bobbin Core Dimensions.
Length
Width
Height
Flange

Thanks,
T
 
copperheadroads 5/22/2017 6:17 AM
Bobbin Core Dimensions.
Length 3.50"
Width 1.50"
Height ??????
core .187" x 2.190"
 
kayakerca 5/23/2017 2:07 PM
Had a Set of Jass Master's in a while back for vacuum potting.

Dimensions:

Bridge (black dot):
- Length: 3.50"
- Width: 1.492"
- Core Height: .170"
- Core W/L: .187" X 2.1895"
- Magnets: South Up; +/- 900 mT
- Wind Direction: CW
- DCR +/- 8.0kΩ

Neck (blue dot):
- Length: 3.485"
- Width: 1.491"
- Core Height: .160"
- Core W/L: .187" X 2.200"
- Magnets: North Up; +/- 900 mT
- Wind Direction: CCW
- DCR +/- 7.5kΩ
 
big_teee 5/24/2017 9:34 AM
Quote Originally Posted by kayakerca View Post
Had a Set of Jass Master's in a while back for vacuum potting.

Dimensions:

Bridge (black dot):
- Length: 3.50"
- Width: 1.492"
- Core Height: .170"
- Core W/L: .187" X 2.1895"
- Magnets: South Up; +/- 900 mT
- Wind Direction: CW
- DCR +/- 8.0kΩ

Neck (blue dot):
- Length: 3.485"
- Width: 1.491"
- Core Height: .160"
- Core W/L: .187" X 2.200"
- Magnets: North Up; +/- 900 mT
- Wind Direction: CCW
- DCR +/- 7.5kΩ
Thanks Jim for the great data.
Here's what I came up with after I worked it up.
I put the data in the archives!
Looks like 8500 turns neck, and 9000 turns bridge would get you close.
 
salvarsan 5/24/2017 8:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
Thanks Jim for the great data.
Here's what I came up with after I worked it up.
I put the data in the archives!
Looks like 8500 turns neck, and 9000 turns bridge would get you close.
Terry, which version of the Coil_Estimator are you using?

The ohm/1000ft figure and diameter are off, look more like 42.5 AWG.
They should be 0.0028" dia. and 1659 ohms/1000ft.

[edit]
I'm getting ~9700 winds and ~8300 winds for bridge and neck.

Did you change the wire specs to match a wire batch you obtained?

-drh
 
big_teee 5/24/2017 10:45 PM
Quote Originally Posted by salvarsan View Post
Terry, which version of the Coil_Estimator are you using?

The ohm/1000ft figure and diameter are off, look more like 42.5 AWG.
They should be 0.0028" dia. and 1659 ohms/1000ft.

[edit]
I'm getting ~9700 winds and ~8300 winds for bridge and neck.

Did you change the wire specs to match a wire batch you obtained?

-drh
I modified the wire table, because there doesn't seem to be any wire that big anymore.
Most of the modern PE and SP is smaller these days.
I hope you don't mind the adjustments?
My hand winding usually matches the turns of 90%.
I have a modified version of the Estimator I use for a pickup library, to catalog as many pickup bobbins as possible, for pickup archiving.
I add pickup data for new pickups with my linux bluefish editor.
As winders, IMO we're not keeping, & preserving, enough pickup data records.
I've been cataloging as many bobbins and pickups as possible.
We don't want some of these rare pickups to be lost through the years, and fall through the cracks!
Your Salvarsan Estimator is a great tool.
Thanks,
T
 
big_teee 7/21/2017 10:59 AM
Here is a guess at, general data for a fender Jaguar pickup bobbin.
The core dimensions allow for taping .187 magnets.
The wire dimensions is for smaller modern 42 guage wire.
I would try 8000 for the neck, and around 9000 for a stouter bridge pickup.
Then adjust from there!
Without a real pickup to measure and test, this is all just a guess!
This should get you in the ball park!
T
**If anyone out there has any real jaguar bobbin dimensions, it would be great if could post them here.
tnx
 
SonnyW 7/23/2017 3:15 AM
Here's some core dimensions and other stuff from my notes from a couple of vintage 60's Jaguar pickups that I have rewound in the past.

Bridge: L: 2.204, H: .438, W: .187, F: .625, magnets .720 long CCW North up, wire dia .0027 calc original ohms 6.65K used 8800 turns of 42 PE came out 6.32K

Neck: L: 2.223, H: .442, W: .187, F: .625, magnets .718 long CW South up, wire dia .0027 calc original ohms 7.04K used 9050 turns of 42 PE came out 6.86K

There was another neck one dated 1964 - I repaired and so I don't have the core dim's but the magnets were staggered .748, .719, .781, .776, .712, .748 and the 42PE wire measured .0026, it measured 6.78K ohms after repair, only lost about 10 turns. forbon spacing was about .430. On all three of them the magnets stuck out from the bottom forbon by about .030 inches. In the data above I calculated the original ohms by weighing the wire removed.