|MisterBzr||5/1/2015 5:01 AM|
|Matching JFETs for piezo buffer preamp|
I want to build the Alex Rice Piezo Preamp (Alex Rice Piezo Preamplifier | Zach Poff (schematic included)), but need to match the JFETs.
I've found several ways to do this on the Internet, but all require extra parts which I don't have right now. Someone suggested that the matching setup must be as close as possible to the real setup.
So I thought: Is it possible to just build the preamp on a breadboard (which I do have) and use that to match the JFETs?
And if so what do I have to measure?
And if this is not possible, what would be the best alternative?
Thanks in advance.
|Mick Bailey||5/6/2015 6:08 AM|
|If you breadboard the circuit put a resistor of 1k or so in series with XLR2 and XLR3 (one in each leg) and connect the free ends to a +ve regulated voltage supply and the -ve end to circuit ground. Then measure the voltage difference between the drains of Q1 & Q2. Match your FETs by swapping them out to get as close to 0v as possible. You can keep one in place and just switch the second. |
Connect both inputs to ground to kill noise.
|MarkusBass||5/6/2015 7:12 AM|
|The web site you linked recommends this: http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/fetmatch/fetmatch.htm method for JFET matching. Have you tried it?|
|MisterBzr||5/6/2015 11:05 PM|
|Thanks for the replies.|
I will go for the method Mick suggested.
@MarkusBass: I've read the article, but I don't have a opamp lying around at this moment, that's why I'm trying to use the breadboard method first.
|Mick Bailey||5/7/2015 7:10 AM|
|You should be able to match the breadboarded circuit off a 9v or 12v battery, but if you need to power it from a higher voltage (48v) then increase the 1k resistors I suggested. 6.8k is fairly common in phantom circuits, but something close would be fine. 10k would do.|
|MisterBzr||5/13/2015 11:28 PM|
|Thanks for the replies.|
I've build the circuit after matching the JFET's and it works fine, although I needed (a lot) more output for what I want so I ended up fiddling with this design and the original Tillman Cable Preamp FET Preamp Cable.
I doubled the Tillman circuit (minus the 20K resistor at the gate) to make it balanced (using matched FET's), and connected a 150 Ohm resistor and 220nF cap between XLR2 and 3. It seems to sound fine.
Thanks again for the help.
|J M Fahey||5/14/2015 6:12 AM|
|Glad you sorted it out |
That circuit probably works and sounds very good, but requires a lot of homemade balancing to work.
FETs being the inconsistent little buggers they are, will force you to go through *many* until you find a few which match.
Personally I'd try to design an Op Amp based preamp, which would need no matching and provide asily adjustable gain to boot.
And could still be built very small by using SMT parts.
|MisterBzr||5/14/2015 7:04 AM|
|It took some time to measure the JFET's, but I've put a small piece of masking tape with a number on each JFET and put my data in a spreadsheet, to find a matching pair is now relatively simple.|
The circuit indeed sound great.
|NateS||6/16/2017 8:23 PM|
|Necro post - but it's the one I'm looking at:|
I'm trying to simulate this circuit and not getting very far. I was mostly trying to do so to make sure that my operating points were compatible with my part selection, but I'm getting very low gain out of it, the zobel network appears to roll of far less than expected, and far higher, and any attempts at the DC blocking caps on the actual piezos result in unusable amounts of rolloff.
BTW - Linear's LSK489 seems to be a handy matched pair JFET if I can make it work here.
|MarkusBass||6/16/2017 11:08 PM|
|NateS||6/18/2017 5:49 PM|
|No - I'm simulating only so far. I'm working from Smugerd's version of it. (Phantom Piezo Preamp | Stompville) I think I had some problems where my jfet symbol pin order was broken. Fixed that, but I'm still not getting unity gain out of it. Here's mine:|
* Spice netlister for gnetlist
.MODEL LSK489 NJF BETA=0.035 VTO=-0.54 LAMBDA=5.0E-3
+ IS=3E-14 N= 1 RD=8 RS=7 CGD=5E-11 CGS=5E-11
+ PB=1.2 FC=0.5 KF=0 AF=1
R5 vob 0 10G
R1 voa vob 47k
R2 7 1 6.8k
R6 1 8 6.8k
R7 4 2 150
R10 8 3 220
R3 7 4 220
R12 6 9 220
R9 5 9 220
R4 4 via 3.3M
R8 via 0 3.3M
R14 vib 0 3.3M
R11 3 vib 3.3M
R13 10 0 390
J3 9 0 10 LSK489
E1 vout 0 voa vob 1
C2 8 vob 47u
C1 7 voa 47u
E2 vin 0 via vib 1
J2 3 vib 6 LSK489
J1 4 via 5 LSK489
C3 2 3 2.2n
V1 1 0 dc 48v
V2 via vib DC 0 AC 200m
In dc simulation, J3 biases up to 900ua - I didn't want to go much lower because the noise curve starts to trend up sharply below 1mA. But the page cited above, he says the gain into a 47k load should be about 15db.
|MarkusBass||6/19/2017 12:09 AM|
|What software did you use? Is it LTSPice? If yes, please post the simulation file. I think that V2 voltage source is used incorrectly. There should be capacitors between the voltage source and JFET gates. And the V2 voltage source should be used in a different way.|
|MarkusBass||6/19/2017 1:13 AM|
|In the meantime I checked it. The circuit works correctly. The gain is +18.8dB. The input voltage has to be connected through capacitors (I used 47nF) and the C3 capacitor has to have lower value (like 220p) - unless you increase value of R7.|
EDIT: C3 = 1nF causes 1.6dB gain loss at 10 kHz. I would leave 1 nF.
This sentence also requires some clarification:
|NateS||6/19/2017 3:56 AM|
|I'm using ngspice. And I feel so stupid. A few years ago I was modelling switching power supplies in ngspice. Now I couldn't remember that 3.3M resistors are actually 3.3 milliohms, they need to be 3.3 MEG. Doh, looks a bit more reasonable now.|
|MarkusBass||6/19/2017 4:03 AM|
|It's a common mistake in SPICE programs - don't worry. Now you will remember for the next few years . You need to add the input capacitors and provide the input signal(s) in a slightly different way.|
|NateS||6/19/2017 6:36 AM|
|As for the input caps - Zach's notes say if the piezo is isolated then they can be omitted. They're not necessary to work - though they're probably handy for HPF more than anything - but without a model of my actual pickup, I'm not sure what to put there. (I want this for a phantom powered endpin preamp to a a JJB-330 piezo. 15mm piezos, but no clue as to their capacitance). Hard to get more isolated that the underside of an acoustic guitar top though.|
|MarkusBass||6/19/2017 6:53 AM|
|That's true but you are talking about the real circuit and here we are talking about the simulation. Without proper model of the piezo transducer it will not work correctly.|
|salvarsan||6/19/2017 10:09 AM|
|AVR-based transistor testers are available on eBay and Amazon starting at $15-$20.|
Based on the transistortester on github, they have varying degrees of decoration -- case and cables cost more, of course.
Original work is documented in a wiki on Mikrocontroller.net.
They infer the device pinout for you whether diode, BJT, FET, MOSFET, SCR, or triac.
Some are more informative than others but they all seem to minimally show pinout, symbol, characteristic current and voltage, or gate capacitance and Vth for MOSFETs.
They look like:
Having just sorted a slew of 2N5459 N-JFETs, I'm pretty satisfied with my $17 one.
They are tested with 470k gate resistor, 680 ohm drain resistor, grounded source.
Note, if you've sorted JFETs by Vp, pinchoff voltage, they are sorted by Idss because of precision limits.
On mine, Idss is reported at 1 decimal point while the Vp gets 2.
That's what you can reasonably expect from a middling voltage reference, 1% resistors, and 10-bit ADCs.
|NateS||6/19/2017 12:23 PM|
|One last thing about this circuit - I'm getting a bit more gain than I think I want. (+24db). The 200mv input will exceed +4dbu (it won't clip until the input hits about 800mV but it likely will overdrive the mixer inputs.) |
I can trade some of that away with local feedback (R9/R12) but that seems as if it'd seriously degrade CMMR - something this circuit absolutely requires (it has no blocking of the phantom power - relying on CMMR exclusively to avoid its influence). Changing feedback via R4/R11 changes the gate bias and lowers input resistance. Of course I could just pad it down, but what's the best way to increase feedback without the above mention ill effects? Would it be good practice to bypass J3 drain to ground or will that not add anything to CMMR?
|NateS||6/19/2017 7:42 PM|
|Well, that was counterintuitive... bypassing the current source makes PSRR worse. Increasing the individual source local feedback resistors makes PSRR better. Actually, as is it's incredibly tolerant of power supply noise (and I presume CMMR). Bringing the R9/R12 feedback resistors up to 1.2k drops the gain down to about 12db.|
|diydidi||6/22/2017 2:00 PM|
|You Can match them by tying gate to drain and connect this through a 10k resistor to 12v and then connect source to 0V. Measure for Vgs,|