fznuk 3/8/2011 12:05 PM
Behringer DDX3216 - Trying to repair, please help!
Hi,

Im new to this forum, so hi to you all!

Im a producer/composer/engineer with a home studio setup using that wonderful Behringer DDX3216 digital mixer which does have its issues...but love it!

A mate of mine also owns this mixer and has had a couple of major issues with it, mine, i havent had too many, but it has had a bit of a benny every now and then.

I have them both here now, and since i have electronics experience from past jobs, it has been sketchy but still managed to repair most things with a few pointers from other electrical engineers. I hope to have the same help and luck here if possible?

I have my friends DDX here and open to repair first, his often has the usual 'all lights on' problem but this has now been replaced mainly with just the main output master LED's staying on, no sound and unresponsive after being switched on for any given length of time.

Doing the usual read-up on the net i have come to the conclusion that the capacitors on the PSU may need changing. I have purchased and replaced all the 1000uF & 2200uF caps on just the output filter stage but on power-up i got the same problem after about 15mins.

I switched it off/on and still got the same.

I opened the PSU again and decided to reapply solder to various points on the bottom of the board, unplugged ribbon cables, plugged them back in, then switched on but this time with the case open. It lasted a lot longer....but when i finally shut the case and switched the unit back on and off i got the dreaded 'all lights on' again

Switching off and on didnt cure it, so i removed the PSU again and now checking the cables and ribbons again on the main boards, including each power connector.

Now, would it be worth it to replace all the other caps on the PSU?

Can i measure the voltages without load on this PSU without problems? and is this worth it?

Since the problems occur only after time, or random 'all lights on' occurs occasionally, would this suggest a filtered voltage problem or heat/joint problem?

Can the processor or any IC's work for one minute then not the next? Seems unlikely? but could be wrong?

Are there any other troubleshooting tests i could do to narrow down the problem?

I have two desks to fix. as i say, they work perfectly when actually working but have random glitches

Any help would be greatly appreciated while i have one desk in bits at the moment

Simon.
 
km6xz 3/8/2011 5:42 PM
Replacing things randomly in this unit will be frustrating and expensive since it is a complex device. The power supply needs to be checked to find if a rail is pulled down, a common cause of this symptom
There are supplies for +48, +/- 17, +/-8, +/-12, +3 and +5V. If you do not have all of these and clean, you need to find out why.
What test gear do you have available? Working with a switching power supply requires a little caution working with the secondary and a lot of caution in how you make your measurements on the AC input side.
This is a difficult unit to repair if your don't have a decent collection of test instruments.
 
Enzo 3/8/2011 5:58 PM
Amen, don't throw parts at it, find out what is wrong.

All peak lights on in a mixer is usually a sign that one of the analog voltages is missing, in this case one of those 17v rails.

In my own experience with these, I often find a cable from the top panel to the bottom panel coming loose. Can't tell you which one, but on the top it plugs in about the center of the panel, probably 15 pins or thereabouts.

Factory bulletin suggests C48 in SMPS dries out - 47uf/25v 105degree. I have indeed found that to be the case in some.

Can the processor or any IC work now and not later? Of course. Any part can be intermittant. More likely is the solder to it. There have been complaints that some of the LSIs on the main board were not adequately soldered. Pain in the ass, but I have seen that.

But always consider the broad picture. It is the SYSTEM that locks up, not necessarily one IC in it. Your processor may be getting a halt signal from elsewhere, and shuts itself off. A flaky power supply can certainly stop a CPU in its tracks. And all modern systems have a power-on-reset circuit, and that restarts the computer whenever powr is interrupted. However if power is glitched and returned too fast for the system to realize it went down, there will be no reset, and the system program can freeze.
 
jrfrond 3/8/2011 10:49 PM
This unit was also prone to bad crystal oscillators and .1 decoupling caps.
 
Enzo 3/8/2011 11:21 PM
And as I recall a serious pain in the ass to take apart and extract the SMPS.
 
fznuk 3/9/2011 4:18 AM
Thank you so much guys! and from a thread i read on here regarding this mixer, it was you guys i was hoping would reply

You are right in not throwing random components at it which is why i only replaced output filter caps which i read from a thread on another forum, but with this not making any difference, together with pulling and replacing connectors, i decided to ask on here since your other replies on posts sounded like you guys knew this unit well.

Im pretty competent with understanding electronics and with a bit of a brush up on circuits like switch mode power supplies im sure i can get my head around it but my main job is PC diagnostics so i don't come across too many component level repairs these days.

I have a purpose built electronics workshop but my test gear is limited to an old Scope and multimeter.....then usual tool...and soldering iron. But the desk is pretty big so decided to open and fix on the kitchen table!

[IMG]http://www.frozenuk.com/mac/DDX3216.JPG[/IMG]

I originally noted down all the caps on the PSU - i also noticed that its built up from three PSU's with various voltages. I was going to get all the caps but decided to try the output ones first, i will see if i have a spare 47uF to try!

You also mention the crystals - are these Q1 & Q2 on the processor board?

Thanks again for your help!

I will keep you all up to date on if i fix it or not
 
fznuk 3/9/2011 7:01 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
And as I recall a serious pain in the ass to take apart and extract the SMPS.
I got to admit it wasn't too bad, was slow and apprehensive at first with all those ribbon cables, but after propping up the lid and removing the top lid connecting cables/PSU leads it was easy. Now a lot faster taking it apart and putting it back together! lol

I have another one to do yet too! lol

I think in future im going to dig out the scope and test properly, but my scope is a hand-me-down, old and maybe need re calibration?! Wouldnt mind one of these PC scopes now!

Well, gonna try changing this 47uf cap and checking the analogue 17V rails as this cap is on the same PSU as the 17V supply..... what about the 1uF cap next to it?

And, as i said in the last post, can i test this PSU without loads? Just like i can test a PC SMPS without load.

Cheers again guys!
 
Enzo 3/9/2011 12:15 PM
yes it should be fine without a load.
 
fznuk 3/10/2011 6:39 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
yes it should be fine without a load.
All voltage rails seem to be ok, before and after 47uF change.

I have +48V (47.7), +&- 17V (16.8) and all the others. I dont have a decent scope as yet to see if there are any ripples. I have ordered one of those USB ones and decent 100KHz probe sets.

Going to roughly put the desk together again and see how long it lasts before going haywire.

I suppose i really need a scope to test the crystals too?!

I also noticed a lot of noise from all parts of the circuit... primary and secondary? I suppose the transformers are badly wound? or the coils? - is a white noise sound that's quite loud?

Maybe i should check the primary input filter caps (Large ones) and double check diodes, startup resistors and transistors?

Cheers
 
km6xz 3/10/2011 7:06 AM
Does the old scope work at all? If so, even if not calibrated it will be better for general pro audio use than a USB type which usually has limited bandwidth and low maximum input signal amplitude. An old Tektronix 465 100Mhz scope will cost about $150 and last 10 times longer and be more functional than a USB module.

What noise, where, how did you measure it....I am confused. You already determine the supply is not causing the mixer to be locked up so move on to more logical causes. There are lots of crystals in the mixer, 24mhz, 12.xxxmhz etc. Your meter probably can't see that but you can see if data lines are steady state "1" or "0", by reading a DC level of some where between 5volts and zero volts.
Where the supply voltages measured with the cables to the rest of the mixer installed or without a load? If no-load, try hooking up the ribbon cables and measure again to see if one rail is dropping out under load. If your measurements were with the load of the circuits, forget the supply and assume it works.
 
jrfrond 3/10/2011 8:16 AM
In an effort to help here, I just checked every DDX3216 repair in our database. Overwhelmingly, the solution we took to the problem described here was the replacement of crystal Q3, 32.768kHz. Over and over, the problem reads the same: runs for awhile, then locks up, no control, etc. Sure, there are also the ubiquitous cap issues and poor soldering, but this fits the bill. Hey, it's worth a shot. You need to eliminate this common issue first. We stock these crystals. Mouser has them as well, part# 559-NC38-LF.
 
fznuk 3/10/2011 3:57 PM
Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
Does the old scope work at all? If so, even if not calibrated it will be better for general pro audio use than a USB type which usually has limited bandwidth and low maximum input signal amplitude. An old Tektronix 465 100Mhz scope will cost about $150 and last 10 times longer and be more functional than a USB module.

What noise, where, how did you measure it....I am confused. You already determine the supply is not causing the mixer to be locked up so move on to more logical causes. There are lots of crystals in the mixer, 24mhz, 12.xxxmhz etc. Your meter probably can't see that but you can see if data lines are steady state "1" or "0", by reading a DC level of some where between 5volts and zero volts.
Where the supply voltages measured with the cables to the rest of the mixer installed or without a load? If no-load, try hooking up the ribbon cables and measure again to see if one rail is dropping out under load. If your measurements were with the load of the circuits, forget the supply and assume it works.
hi, and thanks again to you all for help with this mixer! much appreciated!

Yes, the scope does work:

[IMG]http://www.frozenuk.com/online/scope.JPG[/IMG]

Its a Gould 12Mhz one.... given to me a few years ago.

The USB one is just to have a play with really, and cheap so no love lost if its no good....well i will see when i get it!

I have also ordered a Cap test meter which will help...i think! lol

After brushing up on a bit more with regards SMPS, i feel i have learnt a lot since embarking on the mixer a couple of days ago. being absorbed into electronic reading material has never really been my strong point...more of a practical person....and occasionally blowing things up to learn type! lol

The noise was always there, a kind of hissing, but seemed to get worse across the board?! I think coming from the transformers/inductors?! - But, on powering up the mixer with it (top wedged open and PSU without a lid) the desk fired up....and got a different light show..... but then a flash of sparks from the PSU area..... As i rushed to power off I noticed that one black PSU lead had dropped from within one of the PSU plugs going to the top back right of the console. I removed the white plug and reinserted the lead but when i plugged it back into the PCB it fell out again as the plug was inserted. This time i re-inserted the lead/pin and made sure it was secure........ plugged the desk back up and it worked a treat. I attached powered speakers and a sound source and left it on, i switched it off and on a few times (something this desk hated in succession) and removed the sound source 1/4" jacks and reinserted them, again, something this desk loved to 'crash' on, but it worked well for at least 2-3 hours.

After this i removed the sound source and speakers, just about to remove the PSU to box it up and thought i'd just turn it back on again....bang.....i got the all the lights problem?!! I switched it off and straight back on.....the problem went away and the desk was back (something the desk hated when it got the lights of death as you would have to wait 20-30 mins to switch it back on).

So... am i getting somewhere or going round in circles?! - i suppose this is where the scope comes in!!?

In my line of work i dont usually need a scope and havent used one in a long time...but im sure its like riding a bike and my training will come back! and prob never put the scope down again!

I do get electronically lazy at times but determind to fix this desk....the right way!

And will probably get my head back into electronics books again to brush up on my old electrical repair knowledge!

...............shamei cant get as excited in getting back into music composition! lol

Crystals - I will look into this as long as i know the PSU is steady as i tested it without load. So next i will check with load and see if any rails drop.

Cheers guys!
 
fznuk 3/10/2011 4:00 PM
Quote Originally Posted by jrfrond View Post
In an effort to help here, I just checked every DDX3216 repair in our database. Overwhelmingly, the solution we took to the problem described here was the replacement of crystal Q3, 32.768kHz. Over and over, the problem reads the same: runs for awhile, then locks up, no control, etc. Sure, there are also the ubiquitous cap issues and poor soldering, but this fits the bill. Hey, it's worth a shot. You need to eliminate this common issue first. We stock these crystals. Mouser has them as well, part# 559-NC38-LF.
Thanks for that, but im in the UK so maybe i should have a look here and see if i can get the crystals for a decent price.

One other thing, if the primary large caps were on the edge of failing, would this mixer work but cause lockups like this?

With the scope i suppose i can check for ripples?

Cheers!
 
Jazz P Bass 3/10/2011 4:45 PM
You can check Vdc for "ripple" wih a decent voltmeter.
Set the meter to read Vac.
 
jrfrond 3/11/2011 9:32 AM
Quote Originally Posted by fznuk View Post
Thanks for that, but im in the UK so maybe i should have a look here and see if i can get the crystals for a decent price.

One other thing, if the primary large caps were on the edge of failing, would this mixer work but cause lockups like this?

With the scope i suppose i can check for ripples?

Cheers!
The crystal is made by Fox and their part# is NC38. You should be able to source it in the UK. It's a small watch crystal oscillator. Seriously, you NEED to eliminate this. I COULD be wrong, but according to our repair documentation, there's a good chance I may be right about this.
 
Steve Conner 3/11/2011 3:48 PM
I definitely agree replacing the crystal is a wise move. Farnell should have one, but if you want to do it in real ghetto style, bust open any battery powered digital clock or watch, and take the 32.768kHz crystal from that. Old computer motherboards often have one too.

Sometimes you can check a crystal oscillator with a scope. But other times prodding it with the scope can make it stop, so it appears faulty even though it's perfectly functional the rest of the time.
 
fznuk 3/15/2011 9:53 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve Conner View Post
I definitely agree replacing the crystal is a wise move. Farnell should have one, but if you want to do it in real ghetto style, bust open any battery powered digital clock or watch, and take the 32.768kHz crystal from that. Old computer motherboards often have one too.

Sometimes you can check a crystal oscillator with a scope. But other times prodding it with the scope can make it stop, so it appears faulty even though it's perfectly functional the rest of the time.
Cheers again guys!

I will see what i have kicking about to try it before ordering new. Not had much chance to have a look over the past few days due to getting in a lot of PC work.

I will get back to you all after i have replaced the crystal and done a long test.

Cheers again!

 
fznuk 4/7/2011 2:15 AM
Still Failing?!
Hi guys,

Bought and fitted the new crystal (Q3) but i still have the original error where after a random amount of time the master LED's light up full and you get no sound.

One good thing is that you don't need to wait 20-30mins before you can switch it back on to clear the error?!

My probes still havent come for the scope as yet so cant check for any power ripples etc.

It will also crash at boot-up on the logo screen if switched on and off too fast.

and since i still get crazy hi pitched noise from the PSU, almost like digital modem noise, but higher, im still wondering if the PSU is struggling somewhere or input Caps are bad on the primary?? I bought a Cap meter which will go up to 20,000Uf, and i know it isnt brilliant but will give me an idea.

Would still love to fix this beast!

Cheers again for all your help! and any more would be appreciated!

 
km6xz 4/7/2011 2:49 AM
Sorry but replacing parts randomly or on advice on a web site often results in worse operation. Diagnosis the problem and fix that, not throw parts at the problem until it magically goes away.
You have a very strong clue that no one is considering in the rush to replace a crystal. The power supply has a normal switching frequency of way above human hearing between 200khz and 1Mhz depending on the load. Did you try to isolate the supply or reduce the load to see if the supply is singing at a low frequency by itself or due to excessive load? A low switching frequency means very low transformer efficiency and more heat in the switching transistors, and lower output, higher ripple etc.
What is causing the singing? The mixer or the supply not able to switch at normal rates? You do not need probes for testing DC output ripple level, but any measurements in high Z circuits do require the probes. So far, it appears that the most basic measurements have not been taken due to lack of gear. The supply performance should be isolated by testing on loads, without the mixer connected. From there, you will know where to look for the problem.
The biggest problem is that you are attempting to repair a complex device that 80% of current pro techs would not even try to get into due to its complexity and lack of service information. Even the warranty stations had little more than a schematic and little other assistance. Behringer USA knew NOTHING about the unit, which was about 2.5 light years ahead of anyone's electronics knowledge at the US based distributor.
When we were the warranty station for those, most of the repairs we did, were correcting problems induced by other Behringer warranty shops. There was no one to turn to for help so we reversed engineered much of it, and built test jigs for isolating different pc boards and the supply. That is what it took to successfully repaired hundreds of them.
Starting a repair career on a complex digital board is not going to be easy unless a basic problem with the supply, or a shorted bypass cap is found. I think you would be better off sending it to a shop that has built up a reputation for being experts in these, it will probably be cheaper and a lot less frustrating.
Good luck
 
Steve Conner 4/7/2011 3:06 AM
Good point, a SMPS in a piece of pro audio equipment should not squeal or fizzle, as the noise is electrical as well as acoustic and would get onto the audio. So if it does, it's probably faulty, or being overloaded by a faulty part elsewhere in the mixer.

Electrolytic caps in SMPS are wear items, but a capacitance meter isn't much use for testing them, you need to know the ESR. (However if the capacitance is way below spec, it's a fair bet that the ESR will be bad too.) The output filter caps are more likely to cause instability than the input ones.

Random crashes sure sounds like a bad power supply. You can check with a meter to see if the rails sag to weird voltages when the problem appears. This is a sure sign of a problem, but it doesn't tell you whether the fault is in the PSU, or just some part of the mixer overloading it. For that you also need to measure the current.

The secret of complex repairs is to keep dividing the system in half and testing which half the bug is in. Complicated systems should be designed as a bunch of modules to allow for this. In this case, we want to find if the fault is in the PSU, or the "rest of the mixer".

This doesn't catch "systems" faults, where the system doesn't work even though the modules all test OK. The fault is in the interaction between them. An example would be if Behringer accidentally made the power supply too small to meet the worst-case demand.
 
fznuk 4/8/2011 7:34 AM


Well, i hear what you guys are saying and appreciate your help and advice. I really thought the changing of the output caps would cure it like with a few other SMPS power supplies on other items i looked at, but i suppose it all depends on why they failed.

Im not new to electronics but i am quite a bit rusty since im not repairing electrical items every day, and usually its simple repairs...and can vary depending on the job. My main job now is PC repair which never really requires any component level repair unless im just doing basic diagnosis rule out a bad motherboard....and then its just thrown away and replaced. Google is my friend at the moment for any literature in brushing up on some refresher basic electrical repair knowledge....im just too lazy sometimes to do a full read into deep specific repair....im more of a practical than a theorist...if you get what i mean

I would like you at least try to repair this desk as i dont like to give up to easily...and still have a hunch that it may be a PSU problem....but as said, it could be a bad component on one of the other boards thats bringing down the PSU?

a Couple of things before i dive right in again...

1) The PSU audible noise, could this be bad coil design / transformer vibration and part cured by resin?

2) Is the noise due to instabilities with the PFC control to the switchers?

3) The noise was there when the PSU was powered up without the desk connected so does this point more to the PSU than a problem on the other boards or could the damage still have been done by another board fault so now the PSU components have been weakened in some way?

3) I only tested the analogue power output rails so will test all next time. Is there an accepted tolerance with the voltages before being too high or too low?

I think a more thorough test on the PSU is needed or do you still think im out of my depth? Please remember i have nothing to loose going deeper since the desk is faulty now anyway? But i still dont want to go round in circles.....and im enjoying learning more on SMPS PSU's

Thanks again guys...and thanks for helping a novice comparison to yourselves always great to learn from experts - this is why apprenticeships should make a come back!
 
Nisse 4/22/2011 3:15 PM
THAAAAANK YOOOOU!!!! :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: You made my day! I read this, and found this crystal on an old, oblolete PC-motherboard I had, so I took that and replaced it on my DDX-board, and...... TADAAAA!!! It worked again!! I have repaired the PSU, fixed bad connectors, but the problems always came back. The last time, it did not start at all! I have to make a "long-time-test" now, but I'm very positive! Once again, thanks for your information! :thumbsup: /Nisse
 
Nisse 4/22/2011 4:03 PM
Quote Originally Posted by jrfrond View Post
In an effort to help here, I just checked every DDX3216 repair in our database. Overwhelmingly, the solution we took to the problem described here was the replacement of crystal Q3, 32.768kHz. Over and over, the problem reads the same: runs for awhile, then locks up, no control, etc. Sure, there are also the ubiquitous cap issues and poor soldering, but this fits the bill. Hey, it's worth a shot. You need to eliminate this common issue first. We stock these crystals. Mouser has them as well, part# 559-NC38-LF.
THAAAAANK YOOOOU John R. Frondelli!!!! You made my day! I read this, and found this crystal on an old, oblolete PC-motherboard I had, so I took that and replaced it on my DDX-board, and...... TADAAAA!!! It worked again!!
I have repaired the PSU, fixed bad connectors, but the problems always came back. The last time, it did not start at all! I have to make a "long-time-test" now, but I'm very positive!
Once again, thanks for your information!


/Nisse
 
jrfrond 4/22/2011 7:38 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
THAAAAANK YOOOOU John R. Frondelli!!!! You made my day! I read this, and found this crystal on an old, oblolete PC-motherboard I had, so I took that and replaced it on my DDX-board, and...... TADAAAA!!! It worked again!!
I have repaired the PSU, fixed bad connectors, but the problems always came back. The last time, it did not start at all! I have to make a "long-time-test" now, but I'm very positive!
Once again, thanks for your information!


/Nisse
My pleasure. That's what we are here for.
 
Nisse 5/12/2011 11:56 AM
No power on ANAOUT on ddx3216 PSU
Hi again,
Now, when there is an expert available , I have another question/issue on my ddx PSU.
The thing is:
I power up the DDX, let it be on for a while (more than 15 min. so it gets warm). Everything is working fine.
The I turn off and then on. Now it's very likely that there is no power on the ANAIN02. (Sorry, wrong in the title) (It's the +-17V and +5V anaolg power)
If I then turn off, wait for a while, and the turn on, it might work again.
I have replaced all the electrolytic capacitor (except the two big ones on the high-voltage side)
Do you (or any one) know about this, and what component(s) I must replace?

Best regards,
Nisse
 
gonzosaxman 5/31/2011 8:04 AM
I'm new to this forum, and am currently having problems with my desk. I have taken it apart and it seems that it has the usual capacitor problems with the PSU, but I can't get any voltage out of any of the rails at all as they all seem to be shorting to ground. My Dad was an electronics engineer and typically I didn't ask him enough questions before he died, so I'm wishing he was alive right now. If there are any friendly electronics engineers near Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, UK who wouldn't mind helping me out, please let me know.

Anyway, I am going through the process of trying to fix it currently using my Dad's test gear, and I came across this forum. I have uploaded the complete schematics for the DDX3216 (including the PSU) as a zip file onto the following url for anyone to download if they wish - the file may only be available for a limited time though so if it ain't there, just email me and I will upload it again;

http://www.sendspace.com/file/if20vu


Cheers
 
Nisse 6/9/2011 3:39 PM
Fantastic!! Where/how did you get the schematics? I've searched a lot on the net for this, but never found anything! Thanks a lot!
Well, as mention earlier, it's quite usual that there are bad solderings on the PSU board. The first step would be to check them. It's very hard to see if the soldering is bad just with your eyes. You will need at least a good magnifying glass, or microscope.
Here's an image of a typical bad soldering that I had on my PSU.
(Click on it to enlarge)
/Nisse
[ATTACH=CONFIG]14118[/ATTACH]
 
fznuk 6/16/2011 10:13 AM
Fantastic x 2! Thanks for the schematics!!

Still had no joy in fixing the original problem but now got the power supply on my test bench within my workshop so i just need to put some time aside to look at the schematics, test the voltages & stability, then have a look into why a ceramic disk is 'hissing'?!

The Cap (C4 on the Schematic, 223 1KV) starts to hiss/high frequency vibration?! after about 30 seconds of the PSU being switched on (without load or connection to the desk). - this part of the circuit also shares a Transient Voltage Diode and large 18K resistor across it.

This Circuit is repeated twice again on the other two switch mode circuits (I see this PSU as having three seperate SMPS PSUs in one)

I did notice the voltage across the resistor varying 79 - 85V while the other two similar circuits were stable if thats anything to worry about?

Will reply again once i have tested all output voltages.

Cheers again all! - your all stars!
 
MarkusBass 6/16/2011 10:56 AM
Doesn't the "PSU & DUMMY LOAD" document suggest that the PSU cannot be switched without a (quite complex) dummy load? I think that the noise that you get is due to the fact that you don't have a dummy load. There must be a reson why they provided the schematic of such a complex dummy load, don't you think?

Mark
 
gonzosaxman 6/16/2011 11:00 AM
Replaced all electrolytics and ceramics in the 17 volt section
Just replaced all electrolytics and ceramics (and CX and CY caps) in the 17 volt section and all the electrlytics throughout the rest of the board (I used 125 degree ones wherever available).

Before this, all of the signal clip lights on the desk lit up and that was it. My problem now is that all of the lights on the desk are lighting up alternately. All of the meters, every alternate mutes and select button, every other button and every rotary encoder and all of the fader motors are on and under tension - after doing research, this seems to be a typical problem.

Whilst this is extremely pretty, the desk is still not working. My research tells me that this is due to fluctuating voltages on some of the rails when under load (possibly the 12 volt rails to the CPU board). I'm now testing to see what is causing the problem. My C4 cap is also hissing. Speaking to several repairers about the board (which it turns out behringer nicked from a plasma TV) the zener diodes (zd1 - zd4) are common failiures, followed by some of the rectifiers and regulators on the board (U3 and U4, KB1M0880). Also, CX1, 2 & 3 and CY caps are also prone to failiure causing shorting to ground and overheating of the in line CX variety.

I may go through the whole board and replace more or less everything (excluding the trannies) as I reckon I could do this for around 100, which seems pretty cheap. Most of the components are readily avaiable or modern better performing equivalents are readily avaiable.

Something I did notice when replacing the ceramics, several of the 104 ceramics on the 17volt rail were actually 103 caps instead. If I replace them with 104 caps as it says in the schematic, will this have any adverse effect?

Also, J7 (AG - DG) isn't present and the screw connecting the heatsink to the board accross the AG and DG rail isn't present? Is this normal? I can't see how it would affect the board and I assume you would want to keep DG and AG separate wherever possible.

Watch this space

Glad my schematics are of use to people.
 
Enzo 6/16/2011 3:54 PM
Generally on any mixer or similar piece, when I see all the peak lights on, it usually means one of the power rails is missing. So check the +/-15VDC to the analog ICs.
 
Nisse 6/27/2011 3:30 PM
Quote Originally Posted by gonzosaxman View Post
........Also, J7 (AG - DG) isn't present and the screw connecting the heatsink to the board accross the AG and DG rail isn't present? Is this normal? I can't see how it would affect the board and I assume you would want to keep DG and AG separate wherever possible.

Watch this space

Glad my schematics are of use to people.
Hi,
Just what I noticed!!
I have two PSUs.
One older and one "newer" (green and blue board)
On the older, the screw is missing, the jumper J7 is not mounted and the AG is disconnected from DG, but on the newer (which fails on analog power, described above) has the screw mounted, jumper J7 mounted, and the AG is connected to DG! I started to wonder if this could have something to do with my reboot problems... What's right?? Should the AG and DG be connected in the PSU or not?

Regards
Nisse
 
gassanov 7/3/2011 10:24 PM
Please Reupload DDX3216 schema...i realy2 need it!


thx
 
Jazz P Bass 7/4/2011 7:50 AM
Download 3216.zip from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
 
Nisse 7/4/2011 3:33 PM
And now, finally, I've managed to repair my PSU to work 100%.
The problem is described in "No power on ANAOUT on ddx3216 PSU" above.
As mention above, it's not just the electrolytics that is bad. Beside some bad solderings, the flat cheramic capacitors is a disaster.
For me, it was the C52 that was the problem, and here is my analys of the situation:
The PC3 works as a voltage regulator to Q3. It gives feedback from the lo-voltage-side to the transformer driver (Q3) on the high-voltage-side.
As mention above, the PSU worked fine (without failure as long as it was on), but when I rebooted it when it was warm, there where no power on the analog outputs. As I can see in the schematics, the C52 works as a "soft power up regulation" to Q3. If the C52 wasn't there, the PC3 would tell the Q3 to go by 100% at startup, because there is no power out yet. This will perform until the right level is achived on the 17V side. This would probably work if the Q3 hadn't have a over-current and over-voltage protection. So that's why we need the C52, to make a more soft startup, while all electrolytics etc. are charged. Now, when I examine my C52, it has a value of 110 nF at 20 C. It's Ok (Should be 100 nF +- 10 or 20%). But when I just warm it up a bit (with my fingers) to about 30-35 C, the value goes down to 75 nF! If I then warm it up to a temerature that I just can hold my fingers to it without burning my self, the value goes down to 40 nF!! So now, the "soft startup" is not enough, so the over-current feature in Q3 is activated, and power the Q3 down. That's why it never will start up as long the power is on, even if I wait for temperature to go down. I need to restart when the temerature is low. This is also the reason why it is working as long as it is on.
So now, to be sure that this won't happen to more places in the PSU, I will replace all the cheramic flat capasitors to multilayer 125 C. capacitors.
One other thing that is really strange is that the elecrolytic capacitors are "high temp 105 C" while the cheramics are not, or am I wrong here?!
Anyway, in my project to repair the PSU, I've also mounted a fan on it, to extend the lifetime on the PSU and the DDX. If any one is interested in that, I will publish some pictures of it, and describe how to do and how it works.

Regards,
Nisse
 
gassanov 7/4/2011 7:03 PM
thankyou sooooo much!!
 
choe62 8/22/2011 11:38 AM
I have a problem with the DDX 3216 is not working any moving fader.


The DDX3216 works in full, stores all the parameters are edited, but does not move the faders and the sound is perfect


When I move the faders manually, the display includes the movement. The memories that I edit, making the actual fader position when stored, but do recall, the display changes to show the position they have at the moment

I've checked visually power supply and shows no swelling or burst capacitor

Tensions are correct as indicated on the circuit board silkscreen

Checking circuit motor control board, I noticed the three IC12, IC15 and IC13 heated in excess, can not have much time because it burns your finger on. These are 74HC595 IC

If you experience with this fault I appreciate your help

Dispose of schematics diagram of the DDX 3216. It also has the technical means for any test.

P.D. excuse my bad English, I'm from Spain

Best regards
 
fznuk 9/15/2011 2:12 AM
Some great tips on here! - Im waiting until i build the dummy load but may also test the Ceramic Caps as said above. I think, in the end is to monitor all voltages under load since we do know that the IC's on the main boards dont like unstable voltages but would be great if someone could post up what would be acceptable voltages we can have from a fully working PSU?!

Its a real shame Behringer didnt come up with a better PSU or a 'fix' as this desk is still one of the best budget digital mixers out there

I personally dont really need a mixer anymore now i use a Safire Pro40 1U soundcard connected to a Behringer ADA8000 8 channel expander.......and now the studio is quiet once again! lol - But i still would like to fix my mates DDX since even though he has the same setup as me, he would like it for his drums.

If i actually get to build the dummy load and succeed in fixing the PSU I will post my finding but please also keep up your own findings and fixes.... Photo's also please!

Cheers again guys!

 
choe62 9/15/2011 2:42 AM
Finally I managed to solve the fault

It was the ICs 15, 12 and 13 (74HC595), and several MOS FET transistors NDS7002 used to enable / disable the signal passing the ICs LM324 that activate the motor

With the help of schematics diagram of the multimeter and a good dose of patience I have located these defective components.

I gather that this failure was caused by instability in the power supply, as both ICs and MOS FET transistors, were in shortcut
 
hspilot0000 10/21/2011 1:44 AM
Quote Originally Posted by fznuk View Post
Thank you so much guys! and from a thread i read on here regarding this mixer, it was you guys i was hoping would reply

You are right in not throwing random components at it which is why i only replaced output filter caps which i read from a thread on another forum, but with this not making any difference, together with pulling and replacing connectors, i decided to ask on here since your other replies on posts sounded like you guys knew this unit well.

Im pretty competent with understanding electronics and with a bit of a brush up on circuits like switch mode power supplies im sure i can get my head around it but my main job is PC diagnostics so i don't come across too many component level repairs these days.

I have a purpose built electronics workshop but my test gear is limited to an old Scope and multimeter.....then usual tool...and soldering iron. But the desk is pretty big so decided to open and fix on the kitchen table!

[IMG]http://www.frozenuk.com/mac/DDX3216.JPG[/IMG]

I originally noted down all the caps on the PSU - i also noticed that its built up from three PSU's with various voltages. I was going to get all the caps but decided to try the output ones first, i will see if i have a spare 47uF to try!

You also mention the crystals - are these Q1 & Q2 on the processor board?

Thanks again for your help!

I will keep you all up to date on if i fix it or not
Hi fznuk,

A bit off your topic but I need to replace the fan on a DDX3216 but would like to buy it before I go and fetch it from the client. Could I ask if you can give me the specs (size/voltage) of the cooling fan?

H
 
Jazz P Bass 10/21/2011 6:46 AM
As far as I know the fan is 12 Vdc.
0.12 A
80 mm square.
Like on a PC power supply.
 
hspilot0000 10/21/2011 6:52 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
As far as I know the fan is 12 Vdc.
0.12 A
80 mm square.
Like on a PC power supply.
Thanks
 
fznuk 10/22/2011 7:27 AM
Behringer Fan
er... No the Fan isnt 80mm, its tiny (as shown in my pick of the bottom half of the case...right hand side, half way up and near the back) - and i dont think its 12V, i think it may be 5V.....but will have to have a look once I get the desk out again.
 
JUAN 10/24/2011 12:05 PM
Big problem with my ddx3216
I have a behringer ddx3216 i was using it fine, i just powered it off and came back to power it on and it froze, it just stays on the initial screen where it says "ddx3216" i tried pressing ch1-16 and setup and nothing, i tried turning it on and off several times and nothin, it just stays on the initial screen, what possibly could it be?
 
r007 11/6/2011 4:43 PM
Quote Originally Posted by gonzosaxman View Post
I have uploaded the complete schematics for the DDX3216 (including the PSU) as a zip file onto the following url for anyone to download if they wish
Awesome, thank you so much!

Well, I'm having a bit of trouble with my 3216 as well. After a bit of running, all input channels start showing some intermittent signal. The meter bars go up to -36, and if I turn the volume way up, it sounds like a "fp".
After a bit of looking at the ANAIN schematic I'd think that one of the 17V lines is at fault. (My reasoning being: since the signal LEDs in the preamp section light up as well, and the only common power source to all channels are the 17V rails and VCC/VDD, but no digital component flukes out, so VCC/VDD should be OK.)

So I should probably be looking at the power supply, right? My google-fu seems to be weak, I've only found one other reference of this problem, and their PSU broke down shortly afterwards... Any of you repairpeople heard something similar?
 
zeubest 11/8/2011 5:31 AM
Yes, Great tips here indeed !!!
 
gonzosaxman 2/26/2012 8:14 AM
For anyone who is interested, please see the following Ebay item number 280834224471

The auction includes desk (faulty), recapped PSU, full schematics and opamp modification components
 
Jazz P Bass 2/26/2012 8:31 AM
Quote Originally Posted by gonzosaxman View Post
For anyone who is interested, please see the following Ebay item number 280834224471

The auction includes desk (faulty), recapped PSU, full schematics and opamp modification components
Listing removed as of 02/26/12
What where you getting at?
 
gonzosaxman 2/26/2012 8:46 AM
The ebay listing 280834224471 hasn't actually gone live yet. It goes live tonight at 9:00.

I am selling my desk and mod components and recapped PSU, full schematics and TDIF I/O board due to a lack of time to fix it / mod it. If anyone is interested, have a look, but only after 9:10 pm (26/02/12).
 
Rplink3r 3/5/2012 10:13 AM
Hello,
I am another user that got the DDX3216 into repair.
First I've only got the SPS power supply and fixed it, tested with dummy load and checked every rail for any abnormal behaviour with an oscilloscope. Then the client took the supply and a week later reported the mixer doesn't work anymore(black lines on the LCD, all LEDs on etc.).
Now I have the whole DDX3216 on my desk dissasembled, on the CPU board I removed L4 and L3 to measure the 3.3V digital supply rail of AMD ELAN SC300 and it has only 20ohm resistance to groud. By that I assume the CPU is faulty?
 
fast-rentner 3/26/2012 4:27 PM
thanks to all, especially for the shematics.
This to be not the newest discussion, but is definitely one of the most interesting about the DDX.

Ive got one faulty unit on my desk, which is gonna die in steps as it seems.

First I had the problem, that data isnt stored in the flash anymore; I have to look for it
Last week, it stopped making any sound, and I did several testings til now.

The analog part seem to be ok; signal presence LEDs are lit, but theres no signal on the channel led-bars.
Ive checked the PSU for voltage and ripples; ok, somewhere around +-5%, ripple below 50mV
Ive checked the crystals, as John stated; look good.

If Id unplugged the anaout board, the inputs return to work (and the adat board also does) -> must be fault on the anaout board.
I checked the clock signals (blck_io, lrclk_io), and two of them are badly down; at about 1Vss, with the anaout connected, about 4-5Vss disconnected -> shortcut on anaout ?
The mclk256_io seems to be ok.
I just checked the resistance, (power disonnected) and all three clock signals paths are at their 470Ohms -> ???

Has anyone ever recogniced a failure with the DA converters for SPDIF (IC13 / IC14 on the anaout board)? This are the only ICs, connected directly to the clock signals; all others are connected over 100ohm.

Back to the first fault; has someone got experiences with this flashprom trouble ?
Could just be the prom itself, but do those things just quit their being ??

Any hints are welcome; thanks in advance.
I dont want to throw to much parts in while searching the fault.

kind regards
 
BCulver 3/29/2012 10:29 PM
John I believe you might possess a large portion of mankinds cumulative knowledge re:the ddx3216
please once again what treatment might be applied to psu ??? any components that traditionally need replacement there??
also read with great interest the info re:crystal Q3
have one console that is now failing to retain memory patches
and another that will show no clock found message and or at its on choosing all leds ramp up to full
and we lock up and no audio passes
I love these boards bang for the buck but fear they could be approaching their end days
any advice would be hugely , enormously appreciated
Thanks
Bill Culver
 
fast-rentner 4/2/2012 2:08 PM
Got ist back to live
Hi all,

Ive got the beast back to live

As I assumed, IC13, the SPDIF-In chip shortened the clock. The most expensive chip on that board, I think.

The "not saving" problem is also solved; found a complete CPU board on ebay, but Ill recheck the EEProms: they must be faulty.

@Bill


Quote Originally Posted by BCulver View Post
please once again what treatment might be applied to psu ??? any components that traditionally need replacement there??
maybe, you should take a look to Mixer is dying. Time for a mod.
Someone did a complete recap of the PSU, and documented fine.

Quote Originally Posted by BCulver View Post
have one console that is now failing to retain memory patches
Maybe, you should check the EEProms, marked CPU15 / CPU16 on the CPU board; patches are stored there; if they are

Quote Originally Posted by BCulver View Post
and another that will show no clock found message and or at its on choosing all leds ramp up to full
and we lock up and no audio passes
The (digital)audio related clock signals are generated on the IOCONN01-Board, and distributed to the audio i/o boards, the modules, dsp-board and cpu board.
If you have checked all power rails to be good, you could check the audio syncs.
Switch off your desk, disconnect the flatcable to the anaout board, and power on your desk.
Check one audio in channel (signal, or phantompower on/off)
-> works ? anaoutboard defect
-> dont ? check your modules, if there are any
I think, this check doesnt work for the anain board, because if this board is disconnected, the console locks in power up (display DDX3216)
Your audio clock signals have got nothing to do with Q3. This one is responsible for the main cpu, controlling memory, user interface aso.


starting my long run tests now

Jens
 
BCulver 4/3/2012 8:12 PM
Thanks to all
very useful info
will attempt recap on psu as all DDX 3216's are old enuff to benefit
also liked the Op amp upgrade
really like the functionality of these boards it's gotta have at least
another 100k miles left on it
 
Han 4/14/2012 12:23 PM
Hello,
Here's another DDX3216 with big problems. When turning on the display is black, a lot of the leds are lit and thats all.
The psu seems te be ok but i dont see a signal on Q3 of the cpu (measure on scoop with a probe 10:1).
Replacing a new xtal 32.768 has no effect. The dc level of pin 201 and 202 are 0 volt, i don't see an puls when powering up so the oscillator cant start but why??? I began to think the am386 is dead, are there any measurements to determine this.
In my test i disconnected all boards except cpu board has power, the 4 mHz xtal is running but again the 32.768 not.
Please give me some hints,
thanks.
Han
 
Han 4/15/2012 4:54 AM
Hello again,
I have concluded that i have to replace the am386sc300 on the cpu board so i ask to the forum has anyone did this before.
All info is welcome.
 
Jazz P Bass 4/15/2012 7:42 AM
That IC is a BGA (Ball Grid Array)
The solder balls on the underside of the package hold it to the board.
Your options for removing the Ic are:
-Hot Air
-Hot Plate
-Infrared
 
Han 4/15/2012 9:05 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
That IC is a BGA (Ball Grid Array)
The solder balls on the underside of the package hold it to the board.
Your options for removing the Ic are:
-Hot Air
-Hot Plate
-Infrared
Thanks for the tip.
I have also looked at Soldering a QFP and going to practice on an old motherboard.
Also this is usefull http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules/Fre...ng%20Guide.pdf
And of course i need a new chip so where can i get one (farnell doesn't have it)?
 
Jazz P Bass 4/15/2012 9:17 AM
Here is a Motorola take on reworking a BGA ic.
The good news is you can heat the whole BGA package, as you will not be reusing it.
Getting the pcb pads cleaned up & flat will be the task.
A solder sucker & solder wick should help.
 
Han 4/15/2012 9:43 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
Here is a Motorola take on reworking a BGA ic.
The good news is you can heat the whole BGA package, as you will not be reusing it.
Getting the pcb pads cleaned up & flat will be the task.
A solder sucker & solder wick should help.
Thank for the info but the chip has an FQFP shape and not BGA (so i'm lucky ??).
Anyway now i'm looking for the processor and i don't think i can reuse an old one from a pc motherboard.
I've looked at de desoldering methode, the one with wick and a wrap wire i'm going to practice.
Keep you informed...
 
Han 4/16/2012 11:01 AM
Hello again.
It was very hard to do but i've made it! The processor on the cpu board is removed and the pcb is still in a good state.
See attached picture.
I've been looking around the net to get a new one but i can get it only in china.
16 dollar for 1 #, I ordered 2# to be sure and the shipping costs were more than the ic costs.
In a few days you'll see the results.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18155[/ATTACH]
 
Steve Conner 4/16/2012 11:11 AM
Well done! That was a serious desoldering job.

To remove a dead QFP, I prefer to cut all of the legs off using a Dremel with the cutoff wheel attachment. Then it's really easy to remove the severed legs from the PCB pads. Anyone reading this with proper SMT rework equipment, please don't hit me!
 
Jazz P Bass 4/16/2012 2:06 PM
Wow!
Nice job.
My worst encounter with flatpacks was a Panasonic preburned microcontroller.
40 x 100.
The first one that they sent me was blank.
That is correct, never burned.
There was a small initial marked on the box, on the ones that were burned.
The first one was a bare white box.
Panasonic was pretty cool about it, after I convinced them it was indeed blank.
 
Roxtech 4/19/2012 9:50 AM
DDX3216 PSU Schematics
Does ANYBODY still have schematics for this beast? I've tried downloading from the sites already published on this thread, but apparently the files are no longer available. I would really really appreciate it if somebody could either send me a copy or point me in the right direction where I could find them

Thanks in anticipation.

Andre.
 
fast-rentner 4/19/2012 4:21 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Roxtech View Post
Does ANYBODY still have schematics for this beast? .
Take a look to

Download DDX3216.zip from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

good luck
 
Roxtech 4/23/2012 1:59 PM
Thanks to everybody who sent me schematics!

So now I got the power supply working... the desk lights up like a Christmas tree when I switch it on! The supply lines seem pretty stable on a 'scope, so I assume that a CPU is not switching on properly?
I have not seen a solution for the "many random lights on at power-up" problem on this thread (or maybe I missed it), but is there a quick & easy fix for this before I plunge into diagnostics again?

Cheers,
A
 
fast-rentner 4/23/2012 2:42 PM
Before you go on testing, you should check if all cabling is done in the correct connectors !!
I read of some guys, who made mistakes while replugging, and got additional faults due to higher voltages on wrong boards.

If youve cheched to be correct, take a look to the 31.x kHz crystal. This one is the main clock of the cpu. Somewere in the beginning of this thread, John stated, this is one of the major fault reasons in their database.
The CPU is responsable for the user interface, so there could be a fault.

Iv seen this behavior only once on my console, during a live show :-((
Power recycle solved the prob. This could be a hint to some trouble in the power supply, but Im not shure.


Han told about a similar prob, and he changed the cpu, but there is not result yet.

Jens

... think, I have to speed up my translation engine
 
Marcellino 6/2/2012 4:54 AM
Hello,

I've also a problem with my DDX3216. I've determined that two of the 4 Flash (4MB) IC's are not working anymore. When changing from a working DDX3216 it's working again. My question is : who can provide for IC15, and IC18 a HEX file or equivalent for reprogramming a new am26F040 Flash memory?

Thanks in advance,
Marcellino
 
Marcellino 6/2/2012 4:55 AM
test
 
soundmandoug 8/18/2012 9:17 AM
Hi all, I also have a DDX3216 with what may be a familiar problem. When powered on, the display initially comes up with the splash screen, but after the 14 seconds or so, when the display changes to "channels 1 to 16" the two rows of squares appear, but no sliders underneath. Also, when the power is first applied, the faders don't move down, as they do on a working mixer (I have two units - one working, one with this fault).

I've removed the power supply, built a dummy load and checked it out. There was some noise on the +-8V supply (and it was squeaking), which I traced to the SMPS chip on that section. I've replaced the chip and the +-8V is now quiet.

However, when replacing the PSU, the fault is still there. I've checked the 32.768MHZ oscillator on the CPU board and it's oscillating fine (I replaced the crystal for good measure, as I had a spare one, but now effect).

So, I'm presuming the problem may be with the board with the PIC on it, but here's where I could use some advice. Anyone seen this before?

Thanks a lot

Doug
 
Marcellino 8/19/2012 3:22 AM
Hi Doug,

I think you should check the CPU board. The 4 Flash (4MB) IC's data content could be corrupt. That was the problem in my case.
Try to find a working unit and pull out a complete working set of 5 IC's in a row: (IC15-IC19) If your unit is working again you can use these "pulled" 5 IC's as source to copy the hex data with a simple flash programmer (Ebay, China, about $30) to re-program your IC's.

Good luck,

Best regards,
Marcellino


Quote Originally Posted by soundmandoug View Post
Hi all, I also have a DDX3216 with what may be a familiar problem. When powered on, the display initially comes up with the splash screen, but after the 14 seconds or so, when the display changes to "channels 1 to 16" the two rows of squares appear, but no sliders underneath. Also, when the power is first applied, the faders don't move down, as they do on a working mixer (I have two units - one working, one with this fault).

I've removed the power supply, built a dummy load and checked it out. There was some noise on the +-8V supply (and it was squeaking), which I traced to the SMPS chip on that section. I've replaced the chip and the +-8V is now quiet.

However, when replacing the PSU, the fault is still there. I've checked the 32.768MHZ oscillator on the CPU board and it's oscillating fine (I replaced the crystal for good measure, as I had a spare one, but now effect).

So, I'm presuming the problem may be with the board with the PIC on it, but here's where I could use some advice. Anyone seen this before?

Thanks a lot

Doug
 
soundmandoug 8/19/2012 11:40 AM
Thank you so much Marcellino, as you've shown me where to look. I tested the Vcc on the memory chips and at first thought that they were down at 1.6V, but I must have been misreading something because I've checked again later and they're up at 5V, so all seems well with their power supply. I'll see if I can remove the working ones and check - although I REALLY don't want to break my working mixer!!

Doug
 
soundmandoug 8/19/2012 2:35 PM
Latest - I swapped the upper sections of the mixers over and put the upper section of the non-working mixer onto the bottom section of the working one - and it worked! So, as Marcellino suggests, the fault certainly lies in the bottom section. Next I'll swap the CPU boards over, but just before I do, is there any risk to any of the working components when I put the non-working CPU board in (or put the working CPU board in the non-working mixer)?

Doug
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 9:59 AM
Hi just joined here and have lots of DDX3216 data to share and will in the near future be putting
up all the EPPROM files for the CPU board as well as the PIC chip files (the pic 16c554 gets its data from the epproms on power up and is not retained on chip)

Tip if you are recapping the PSU, replace all the electolytics ,yes all of them !
I use 130deg samwa's.
NOTE do not get the 7 pin CTRL11 and CPU01 connectors swapped,as a freind found out !!
As already stated the 32 meg xtal is a common failure,also replace the electros with tants,
On the cpu ,and all the smaller caps on the DSP,and the two 470uf with samwa.
These increase the stability in all the digital circuits !(behringer cost cutting)
I have almost compiled a fault test log showing what is displayed on the LCD with the various
sub boards connected, the analog IO boards do not have to be present for a good boot seq !
I am currently modding the analog boards with better op amps and caps.
I have a small supply of cpu chips (elan sc300) if your stuck with cpu death and
competant at replacing,or I can repair and test the cpu/dsp boards (for a fee) for you.
Be back soon
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 11:25 AM
Hi s2udio, thanks a lot for your reply. I'm also very new to this forum (just the last week) as I've just jumped into digital mixing after 30 years playing with analog. This is such a brilliant desk and well worth the patience fixing broken ones. I'm about to try swapping the memory chips between my working (nice new shiny, expensive!) and non-working (had a very hard life, missing a knob or two) one. I'm in fear of bending pins on the chips, as the sockets are VERY stiff and I no longer have tools such as IC removal clamps (I was an electronics engineer a very long time ago, but just dabble at home nowadays).

Thanks for the offer of info. If I find that it's a memory chip that's gone, how do I reprogram them? I have a couple of spares coming from Hong Kong (courtesy of ebay) but I haven't found a programmer for under a few hundred quid. I play with PICs a bit and have some serial pic programmers, but I guess I won't persuade them to work with the AMD chip, right?!

Doug
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 11:59 AM
Hi Doug
As you say these desks are one of behringers Good products,apart from the poor quality electros and chinese build quality,
Though the PCB's are of industrial quality ! I luv'em
I have a small quantity of spares as well,so if you're stuck let me know.
I have found the epproms to be very reliable ,and not found a dead one yet,(maybe lucky) !
Although a sickly psu with a overvolt 5v rail may cause failure.
A reseat of all the epproms first,a small sharp blade screwdriver gently applied under each corner and lifted will do it.
Whats the actual boot sequence before it fails ?
Ah sorry just read your post.............
Thats a new one ! strange i think the cpu boot prom checks for corrupt data ?
What happens if you try a factory reset ?
I see you have a working board as well,swap the eeproms one at a time !! or you
wont know which on is faulty.
ps try the cpuos boot first, IC19

Paul
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 12:24 PM
OK, thanks. I did try a factory reset (I presume you mean holding down 1-16 and setup whilst powering on) - still the same. IC19, is that the 28 pin DIP on the far right?

Doug
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 12:34 PM
Yup, 27c512
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 12:53 PM
OK Guys, I owe you a beer! in fact, serveral beers, because IT WORKS!!!!!!! I replaced IC19 and no joy, so I just bit the bullet and replaced all 4 of the AM29F040Bs en bloc, and IT WORKS!!!!!! - sorry, have I already shouted that ;-))

It's just that I'm so happy, I could run down the street naked shouting IT WORKS!!!!!

:-)

I have a friend who reckons he has a programmer that'll handle these chips, so I'll try replacing one at a time 'till it doesn't work again, then try re-programming. If that doesn't work, I'll wait for the new ones to arrive from Hong Kong.

Doug (Happy)
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 1:01 PM
Well done

Which one was it doug, ? would be good to know then i can write it up in my faut log
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 2:46 PM
OK People, I now have TWO WORKING MIXERS! with two sets of working EPROMS. Here's what happened:

1. replaced all chips in non-working mixer (we'll call this mixer A) with known working chips from mixer B. Mixer A now WORKS. Also, I have the snapshots from mixer B, so snapshots are saved in the flash EPROMS.
2. changed back the CPU code chip (IC19) - still worked.
3. changed back first (leftmost) EPROM - still works
4. changed back second from left EPROM - still works
5. changed back third eprom - starts up OK but I get the message "couldn't save the file - medium is full" as it starts up. I power cycle with factory reset switches held (1-16/setup). Now error message is gone and I can store/retrieve snapshots.
6. changed back fourth eprom - get error message again and snapshot saving seems erratic. So I power cycle again with factory reset. Then I update firmware (to the same level as currently running - 1.1). Now mixer A ALL WORKS FINE with original eproms.

7. I put working eproms back in mixer B. Now I get same "couldn't save the file - medium is full" message on mixer B (the originally working mixer, with original chips). So I do factory reset, followed by firmware re-flash (again to same version as running - 1.1) and now I have two perfect working mixers!!

So conclusion is that mixer A appeared to have corrupted a snapshot save at some point (probably power supply issue, knowing these units :-) and thereafter it couldn't start up as it tried to load the previous snapshot when it finished it's boot sequence and hung when it hit the corrupt snapshot record. changing one chip at a time gave it enough of a readable snapshot to come up, albiet with complaints about the snapshot condition. Resets and new microcode loads cleared the condition completely!

... one for the log?

Doug (very Happy!!)
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 2:51 PM
OK People, I now have TWO WORKING MIXERS! with two sets of working EPROMS. Here's what happened:

1. replaced all chips in non-working mixer (we'll call this mixer A) with known working chips from mixer B. Mixer A now WORKS. Also, I have the snapshots from mixer B, so snapshots are saved in the flash EPROMS.
2. changed back the CPU code chip (IC19) - still worked.
3. changed back first (leftmost) EPROM - still works
4. changed back second from left EPROM - still works
5. changed back third eprom - starts up OK but I get the message "couldn't save the file - medium is full" as it starts up. I power cycle with factory reset switches held (1-16/setup). Now error message is gone and I can store/retrieve snapshots.
6. changed back fourth eprom - get error message again and snapshot saving seems erratic. So I power cycle again with factory reset. Then I update firmware (to the same level as currently running - 1.1). Now mixer A ALL WORKS FINE with original eproms.

7. I put working eproms back in mixer B. Now I get same "couldn't save the file - medium is full" message on mixer B (the originally working mixer, with original chips). So I do factory reset, followed by firmware re-flash (again to same version as running - 1.1) and now I have two perfect working mixers!!

So conclusion is that mixer A appeared to have corrupted a snapshot save at some point (probably power supply issue, knowing these units :-) and thereafter it couldn't start up as it tried to load the previous snapshot when it finished it's boot sequence and hung when it hit the corrupt snapshot record. changing one chip at a time gave it enough of a readable snapshot to come up, albiet with complaints about the snapshot condition. Resets and new microcode loads cleared the condition completely!

... one for the log?

Doug (very Happy!!)
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 3:00 PM
So, now I'm in the market for a knob and two red knob surrounds for the channel parameter knobs. Anyone know where I can source these?

Also, how does one recover the factory preset EQ and Dynamics settings? The manual talks of preset factory settings in some of the lib slots for the EQ and comp sections of the channels. But all mine have slot one as "default" and the rest as "empty". I have the factory presets for the effects lib, but that's all. Any thoughts?

Cheers
Doug
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 3:09 PM
Well done doug !!
Looks like the eeproms are not faulty then !
I also owe you a beer,........nice work.
Looks like a few resets and a reload of the firmware with snapshots is a fix for the corrupt eeproms then.
Excellent piece of detective work there chap.
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 3:21 PM
I have spare knobs and surrounds available .
As for the EQ and the Dynamics presets.......they dont exist,the manual is misleading and badly worded.
If you think about it how would you know what eq or dyn is required for an unknown source per channel?
They are userbank presets to be saved to and only exist if you set them up.

Regards Paul
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 3:53 PM
Well I couldn't have done it without the support of this great place - thanks again to Marcellino for pointing me at the EPROMs to begin with. Paul, I'd like to discuss terms re the knob and surrounds. I'll send you a message with my email address, if that's OK.

Thanks again all

Doug
 
S2udio 8/20/2012 3:58 PM
Thats fine Doug.
A full recap of the PSU recommended
 
soundmandoug 8/20/2012 4:07 PM
I did start by repairing the PSU (the +-8V section needed a new SMPS chip, as it was singing and noisy). What I did on my working mixer, and what I'll now do on this fixed one, is replace the fan with a larger one (same 40mm diameter, so it would fit the same screw holes, but 20mm deep and more powerful. I then put the old fan on top of the power supply case, over the slots at the back by the analog out board. This now has the effect of pulling air through the PSU and keeping it running cool. I now don't have the other fault symptom that the working mixer was showing, which was that when it was warm (running for an hour or so) powering off then on again would most of the time bring all the PEAK LEDs on on the analog inputs. I'm told this is a symptom of loss of the +17v line. Powering off, leaving for a few 10s of seconds, then powering off again normally cleared the fault, but clearly something was heating up in the PSU (C48 has been suggested). Since the fan mod, the fault has not re-occurred, even when left for several hours running in a hot office. So clearly the fan mod has made a big difference (for the princely sum of 6,50 for a new fan).

Doug
 
soundmandoug 8/22/2012 3:13 PM
Folks, another question while we're on the subject of DDX3216... Now I have two DDX3216 mixers, and I've just acquired a TDIF interface. I'd love to run the mixers together as a larger unit. I understand folks have done this with ADAT interfaces (of which I also have two, one for each mixer) but I want to keep these for ADA8000 I/O. Therefore, is it possible to use two TDIF interfaces (I'll need to acquire another one), one in each mixer, with the out of one to the in of the other?

Then I could use the first mixer to mix 32 down to 16 channels; put the 16 channels into the second mixer, along with 16 of it's own, down to 2 (or maybe 32-8 on both desks).

I guess I'll need external clock (as the DDX3216 can only be master for the internal TDIF interface clock) but I'm presuming I can run the word clock out from one desk into the in of the other.

What do we think?

Doug
 
Nisse 8/31/2012 2:46 PM
Hi again,

Thanks for helping me last time with the crystal problem!
Now I have another question that you might know something about:
I got hold on another DDX that hangs during startup.
When I power up the mixer, the display shows DDX3216, then the software version shows up and after a while the "fader page" shows up, but the faders is missing (on the screen), only the squares above them is visible. (It's here the mixer hangs) The fades should be moved to its right position now, but nothing happens.
Have you (or any one) any idea of what this is?

Best regards,
Nisse
 
S2udio 8/31/2012 3:17 PM
Read soundmandougs post no 80-81 ...........
Do a factory reset.....Hold CH1-16 + SETUP and switch on...
Then a reflash via RS232.
Its a PSU problem 5V rail going low when hot .
Needs a service.
 
soundmandoug 8/31/2012 4:43 PM
I had this problem and it turned out to be corrupt firmware in the memory chips on the CPU card. After the CPU completes it's power-on sequence (about 14 seconds, during which the display shows the "DDX3216" splash screen) it then loads the last state stored before last power-off. If that state has been stored incorrectly (power supply fault or something) then it won't load and the cpu just hangs at that point (buttons un-responsive etc).

I fixed it by swapping out each chip in turn with a working mixer, and doing a power-on reset (hold 1-16 and setup switches whilst powering on) after each chip insertion. This cleared the fault to the point where I could access the files menu, whereupon I could re-flash the firmware from the PCMCIA card.

Doug
 
Nisse 9/1/2012 1:11 AM
Yes, Sorry! I found thit eeprom thing just after I published my problem.
I will try that.
Talking about the PSU: I have repaired a few now, an all of them works fine now.
Resoldered and replaced caps etc. BUT I've also put a fan on each. I think this is absolutely necessary for long time use an reliability!
The PSU needs cooling air. Iv'e also opened up a bit in the PSU. Nothing is visible from outside.
I run the fan on 8V to reduce the noise. (The fan is a "standard 12V PC fan")
Here are some pictures of what I've done.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19861[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19862[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19864[/ATTACH]

Now I'm pushing most of the air through the PSU and out of the DDX.
I also put some plastic tape to prevent the air just to circulate inside the DDX.
 
Nisse 9/1/2012 4:05 AM
No valid program, restart update!
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Hi Doug
As you say these desks are one of behringers Good products,apart from the poor quality electros and chinese build quality,
Though the PCB's are of industrial quality ! I luv'em
I have a small quantity of spares as well,so if you're stuck let me know.
I have found the epproms to be very reliable ,and not found a dead one yet,(maybe lucky) !
Although a sickly psu with a overvolt 5v rail may cause failure.
A reseat of all the epproms first,a small sharp blade screwdriver gently applied under each corner and lifted will do it.
Whats the actual boot sequence before it fails ?
Ah sorry just read your post.............
Thats a new one ! strange i think the cpu boot prom checks for corrupt data ?
What happens if you try a factory reset ?
I see you have a working board as well,swap the eeproms one at a time !! or you
wont know which on is faulty.
ps try the cpuos boot first, IC19

Paul
Hi,
Thanks for the information!
I tried to swap the flash memory (IC 16) from a mixer that hangs at startup (We call it A) to a working mixer (B).
Then I tried to update the firmware, but at the end, the mixer was hanging!
Then I had to power down/up the mixer, and after that the mixer says "No valid program, restart update!"
Well, now I was afraid that I had two broken mixers, BUT fortunately, when I put IC 16 from mixer B into mixer A, mixer A seems to work fine!
The conclusion is that it was IC 16 that failed.
Now, how can I reprogram the firmware in the broken mixer?
In what chip(s) are the firmware located? I could then copy the eeprom/flash from one mixer to the other.
I think I have access to an eprom-programmer at work, but is there an easier way?

Regards,
Nisse
 
S2udio 9/1/2012 5:39 AM
Have you done a factory reset before updating ?

I doubt that eprom is faulty.....but there could be a first time !

BTW tapeing up those airholes is a bad idear IMHO ,you will just exasperate the problem ,which is caused by the psu voltages going low (5V,3.3V,8v rail out of adjustment)
Causing corruption of data when locking up !,and overheating of the PSU
I have 2 off these running perfectly with no drastic fan mods,just a higher rpm better quality standard size fan ! and correctly adjusted voltages set at full load.
See the psu load circuit diagram,its there for a reason !
The voltages can be adjusted by the presets in each induvidual section.
If is done quite a high mileage in its life then a recap is a must for these psus with high quality Low ESR caps.

Cheers

Paul
 
Nisse 9/1/2012 3:17 PM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Have you done a factory reset before updating ?

I doubt that eprom is faulty.....but there could be a first time !

BTW tapeing up those airholes is a bad idear IMHO ,you will just exasperate the problem ,which is caused by the psu voltages going low (5V,3.3V,8v rail out of adjustment)
Causing corruption of data when locking up !,and overheating of the PSU
I have 2 off these running perfectly with no drastic fan mods,just a higher rpm better quality standard size fan ! and correctly adjusted voltages set at full load.
See the psu load circuit diagram,its there for a reason !
The voltages can be adjusted by the presets in each induvidual section.
If is done quite a high mileage in its life then a recap is a must for these psus with high quality Low ESR caps.

Cheers

Paul
Hi,
Yes, I did the factory reset, but I still got the "couldn't save the file - medium is full" error. That's why I tried to update the firmware. I've done it before with success.
Well, when it comes to the PSU, I would agree if I didn't have had the extra fan. The tape helps the air to come out insted of just circulate inside the mixer. That's why I opened up the PSU at the edges. There is a HUGE difference in the temerature in the whole PSU and the whole mixer whith this mod.
Now there is an air flow through the PSU an out. Before, it hardly existed. In my opinion, only the original-fan is not enough.
Anyway, back to the flash. Is it possible to make a firmware upgrade without manually remove the IC's and program them with a eprom programmer etc?
It think it has to, because the 27c512 is a PROM, an that is not possible to erase. So the firmware must be in IC15 to IC18. Usually there is a boot-loader in "upgradable" equipments that you can't change from outside.
I only found this (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...w/k4AxITunz2QJ), but there's no answer.
Do you know about the DDXupdate?
My plan is to try to program these flash ICs once again to be shure.

Kind regards,
Nisse
 
soundmandoug 9/3/2012 2:40 AM
Hi again, as for EPROMs, I have 3 new chips which I had shipped from China when I was working on my problem (when I thought it was an actual dead chip). I have access to a programmer for these chips, so if you or anyone else has a faulty or corrupt chip, I can program a new one with the image in that location and send to you, for a consideration.

As for airflow, I completely agree that the source of just about all the issues on this mixer is lack of airflow in the PSU. This is what cooks the caps and requires a re-cap on older units (as stated by Paul). One has to be careful with airflow, so as not to disturb airflow in the rest of the mixer (across the analog boards, CPU boards etc). So, on both my mixers I replaced the stock fan with a larger one of the same diameter (but 20mm depth) which has a much greater air volume (3x) but keeps the same flow over the mixer. I put the old fan on top of the power supply, up against the analog output board, kind of the same place as yours, but because it's much smaller, I didn't need to cut any holes; just sat it over the grille and fixed it with double-sided adhesive pads. This meant I could do the mod on my new mixer without even taking the top off - all the connector glue is still in place!! The new fan simply taps into the same cable as the original. The fan assembly can be removed with the lid just tilted up; the mod added and the whole lot replaced without disturbing any other connectors.

In this way, a smaller amount of air is drawn up through the supply than is being pulled out of the right hand side by the new fan, so airflow across the rest of the mixer is maintained. The PSU fan is simply assisting the natural convection so is additive, not working against anything.

As soon as I installed this simple, minimally intrusive mod, I noticed a distinct improvement. On my new mixer, even though it's had a very easy life and low usage, when warm (running for an hour or more), if powered off then on again, all the peak LEDs would come on, indicating loss of the 17V line. This is due to the fast-start circuitry on the PSU failing through overheating. After installing the fan mod, this has never happened again, even after leaving the desk running overnight.

So, I would definitely sanction adding forced air cooling through the PSU, but being careful to maintain correct airflow across the rest of the mixer.

Doug
 
Nisse 9/4/2012 12:46 PM
Rom images
Hi again,
Does anyone have the binary images for the EEPROMs? (IC15-IC18)
The strange thing is that when I reprogram IC15-IC18 with an EPROM programmer, the mixer (the one which worked) is now hanging at startup, but not the "faulty" mixer.
The problem is probably because the rom-images for rom 15, 17, 18 is taken from the faulty one, and they where probably not 100%.
Anyway, If anybody has the rom images, I would be grateful to have them.

/Nisse
 
Nisse 9/5/2012 12:04 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
Hi again,
Does anyone have the binary images for the EEPROMs? (IC15-IC18)
The strange thing is that when I reprogram IC15-IC18 with an EPROM programmer, the mixer (the one which worked) is now hanging at startup, but not the "faulty" mixer.
The problem is probably because the rom-images for rom 15, 17, 18 is taken from the faulty one, and they where probably not 100%.
Anyway, If anybody has the rom images, I would be grateful to have them.

/Nisse
Hello fellows!
Forget about my previous post, cause today I'm in a good mood!
I've finaly got the DDXUpdate V1.11 software, and "that was the shit"
So NOW IS MY MIXER WORKING AGAIN!!
No need to remove roms, and burn etc.
Just some info:
First I tried to update the mixed from my "better" computer with dual core CPU but this failed all the time. I got communication error after a while. Then I tried with an external USB-RS232-COM-port, but that didn't work either.
Then I tried with an older single-core-CPU computer (Both with Win-XP), and that worked fine!
Don't know why...
Well, the older computer runs "TinyXP", that has a lot of stuff disabled. That could make sense!
Then I had to do the "factory reset" cause most of the leds was lighting up.
Now was the mixer working fine again!
Then I had to update the mixer with the "latest" software (V112), because the DDXUpdate installed an older version. It seemed to be built-in in the DDXUpdate-program.

Regards,
Nisse
 
soundmandoug 9/5/2012 5:32 PM
Further to my previous post regarding improving airflow through the PSU of the DDX3216, here are some pics of the mod I did on both my mixers:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]19938[/ATTACH]
 
Nisse 9/7/2012 1:29 PM
Quote Originally Posted by soundmandoug View Post
Further to my previous post regarding improving airflow through the PSU of the DDX3216, here are some pics of the mod I did on both my mixers:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]19938[/ATTACH]
Hi,
So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
By the way, I think you have to clean your PSU-fan a bit!

Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
V109.bex = Latest firmware
V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)

Do I need to install them both?
How can I see the installed version(s)

Ps.
If anyone needs the DDXUpdate, I can share it for you.

/Nisse
 
S2udio 9/8/2012 12:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
Hi,
So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
Hmm.............. You remove it,and take the lid of,then remove the board,.?

Warning ...if you are not experinced in repairing SMPSU's....leave it alone or find someone who is,....They are lethal in the wrong hands ,get something wrong and you will kill
A section at the flick of the mains switch. !!!

Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post

Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
V109.bex = Latest firmware
V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)
Just install 1.12

Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
Do I need to install them both?
How can I see the installed version(s)
Its not possible to "install both", 1.12 is just an update for surround ,so not nessesary but usefull.

I have quite a few Snapshot/ configs I use , so mine gets backed up at least once a month

The default factory reset defaults the com port to MIDI communication,....you need to set it to "RS232" manualy, in FILES/EXCHANGE.(VIA)

Here you will see the file version......!
 
gassanov 9/26/2012 8:09 PM
I got this problem " memory test error please contact your local dealer "
What. Already did is: changes some capasitor on the psu unit and also replace all the psu with my other working ddx but the error message stil apears. Please hel and sorry for my bad english, thx in advance
 
Nisse 9/27/2012 3:20 PM
Hi,
It sounds like you have some problems with your memory chips on the main board.
Have you verifyed that all pins on the memory chips are properly soldered to the main board?
You might need a good magnifying glass to see it.

/Nisse
 
Nisse 9/27/2012 3:21 PM
Hi, It sounds like you have some problems with your memory chips on the main board. Have you verifyed that all pins on the memory chips are properly soldered to the main board? You might need a good magnifying glass to see it. /Nisse
 
Termac 9/27/2012 7:47 PM
Hi

This thread is really great, trying to work my way though an issue with my DDX.

Started to get so random "hiss" noise from main outputs about to gigs ago, thought it was the main PA was noisy. On the last gig the whole analogue audio level drop to about a tenth of normal output then jumped back up to normal level at random times and had to swap out the console. It did so when up to normal operating temps and passing a normal audio stream. VU meters did not show the drop just. I suspect somewhere in the DA stream or board or in the Op Amps on the output. Maybe the normal dry joint. Am reasonably competent technically and have normal diagnostic gear, but need some assistance from those that have dealt with these mixers, to provide some level of guidance of where to start.

I love this mixer due to its size and capability for small jobs. If any one would like to chime in it would be most appreciated.

Termac
 
gassanov 9/27/2012 10:58 PM
Yes...i already re soldering all the memory chip...i foget the ic label but it looks like a chip on the computer ram. But the problem still there. I guest i have to changes the memory chip righ?
 
gassanov 9/28/2012 2:54 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Termac View Post
Hi

This thread is really great, trying to work my way though an issue with my DDX.

Started to get so random "hiss" noise from main outputs about to gigs ago, thought it was the main PA was noisy. On the last gig the whole analogue audio level drop to about a tenth of normal output then jumped back up to normal level at random times and had to swap out the console. It did so when up to normal operating temps and passing a normal audio stream. VU meters did not show the drop just. I suspect somewhere in the DA stream or board or in the Op Amps on the output. Maybe the normal dry joint. Am reasonably competent technically and have normal diagnostic gear, but need some assistance from those that have dealt with these mixers, to provide some level of guidance of where to start.

I love this mixer due to its size and capability for small jobs. If any one would like to chime in it would be most appreciated.

Termac
Open your ddx, remove any cable from psu to all board, clean both pin and plug it again. I hope it will work. If note, check your psu capasitor and also re solder all the transistor. Goodluck
 
Nisse 10/1/2012 2:48 PM
Quote Originally Posted by gassanov View Post
Yes...i already re soldering all the memory chip...i foget the ic label but it looks like a chip on the computer ram. But the problem still there. I guest i have to changes the memory chip righ?
Hi,
Well, if you have verified that all pins on the power connector on the mainboard have the right voltage and the VCC on the memory chip (be careful here while measuring here), I would try to replace the memory chips. It can be a little bit tricky to remove the old memory chips, but if you got hold of new chips, it's sometimes easier to cut of pin by pin on the old mem-chip with a small sharp nipper. When that is done, you can remove the capsule and the remove pin by pin with the soldering iron. (This is not a beginners operation)
Now it's just to put the new on place! (c;
 
km6xz 10/2/2012 2:38 AM
It will be easier and less destructive to probably good ICs to use Chip-Quik SMD Removal using a Chip Quik kit - YouTube very low temperature solder to simple wet all the leads with the solder and pick the part off with your figures without damaging it or the pc board. Those chips would each take about 5-10 second of work to remove and yield an undamaged board and chip that can be reinstalled if you find it is not the problem. That and hot air are the only two ways of properly removing such a large chip. The same low temp solder is very useful in removing heavier parts that are solder to ground planes/heat sinks, such as a pot or switch, jacks and others that could take a lot of heat applied to both sides of the board to remove if using a conventional desoldering technique such as braid or solder sucker.
Good luck
 
S2udio 10/2/2012 9:34 AM
Those RAM memory chips are pretty robust .
I have seen those BOOT memory errors before........from what i remember ,turned out to be the Elan microprocessor,
I would recommend a reflow of the micro ,then replace if no joy.
? We are talking about the CPU RAM(s) rather than the Flash ROM(s) ?!
 
Nisse 10/3/2012 3:24 PM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Those RAM memory chips are pretty robust .
I have seen those BOOT memory errors before........from what i remember ,turned out to be the Elan microprocessor,
I would recommend a reflow of the micro ,then replace if no joy.
? We are talking about the CPU RAM(s) rather than the Flash ROM(s) ?!
Hi,
One of my DDXs has a little defect on the DSP card. There is a little "klicking sound" on FX1 on some effects. I would guess it is some problem with one of the memory chip on the DSP board, but i'm not shure. Perhaps you know anything about that? Besides that, the mixer works fine.
 
gassanov 10/7/2012 12:15 PM
Thx all for the advice...hope i can find the replacement memory in my county (indonesia) ic 24-32 it looks like an old edo ram. I give you report soon after i got the chip. Thx again. Sorry for my bad english.
 
Termac 10/17/2012 1:21 PM
Still working through the issue mentioned above. Have seen some references to service schematics and manuals, tried the links but they are dead. Does anyone have either that are downloadable?

Thanks for reading.

Termac
 
Termac 10/17/2012 1:22 PM
Low Audio Output Level
Still working through the issue mentioned above. Have seen some references to service schematics and manuals, tried the links but they are dead. Does anyone have either that are downloadable?

Thanks for reading.

Termac
 
philbo 10/17/2012 8:09 PM
Wow - - What all this says to me: "Stay the hell away from Behringer gear until they learn how to design reliable electronics"

No offense meant. In many ways, Behringer is like Peavey was back in the '70s: Low dollars, feature packed, and absolutely not reliable enough to be considered road-worthy. Eventually Peavey, over the years, mastered the art of electronics design, and now make some great stuff.

Assuming Behringer is on a similar path, I may look into buying some of their stuff around 2025 or so...
 
Han 2/1/2013 11:39 AM
Here i am again, long time agow i ordered 2 # am386sc300 in china.
I replaced the processor, NO LUCK.
But i think it's because i received the wrong type, see picture
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21762[/ATTACH]
so i removed it and... ordered a elan386sc300 also in china.
In a few weeks it will arrive then i try again...
 
philbo 2/1/2013 6:13 PM
The original is an Advanced Micro (AMD) part. It will probably require an exact replacement - If I recall correctly, the AMD parts had some processor instruction set differences to the Intel 386 processor.
 
Han 2/2/2013 1:06 AM
Quote Originally Posted by philbo View Post
The original is an Advanced Micro (AMD) part. It will probably require an exact replacement - If I recall correctly, the AMD parts had some processor instruction set differences to the Intel 386 processor.
Philbo: As I mentioned before, first I ordered the AMD386SC300 and received the one on the picture but looking on the original it should be ELAN SC300 33KC so I ordered that one it should be arrive in 2 weeks
 
Han 2/2/2013 8:40 AM
FYI

Some pictures of my behringer stack, where the multicable (1# CAT5) transports 3X ADAT (24 channels) in and 1X ADAT (8 channels) out.[ATTACH=CONFIG]21773[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21774[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21775[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21776[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21777[/ATTACH]
This set I use several years with no problems.
 
S2udio 2/2/2013 2:50 PM
What did you remove the "wrong" chip with a chainsaw....!
Those pcb tracks on the elan are pretty fragile ...take care if you want that cpu board to ever work again !
 
Han 2/2/2013 3:34 PM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
What did you remove the "wrong" chip with a chainsaw....!
Those pcb tracks on the elan are pretty fragile ...take care if you want that cpu board to ever work again !
Chainsawed pcb still looks good[ATTACH=CONFIG]21784[/ATTACH]
 
Gancho 2/3/2013 1:59 PM
Hi, forgive the newbie question but I recently acquired behringer DDX3216 for my band as we needed more inputs than the old desk supported. There seems to be an issue with the desk as all the red clip lights are on after boot up and stay on permanently. I haven't hooked it up to the amp yet but with a line-in signal nothing comes out of the headphones output and the sig input light doesn't come on. I need to spend some time with the manual but all the other functions and buttons seem to operate as they should. I'm quite technical having built a number of PCs and can do a bit soldering but having read through this thread I'm probably not up to most of the suggested procedures. So, is there anything simple I can try to isolate the problem and can anyone recomend a good repair shop in the Hampshire, Berkshire or London area.

My band ar p1ssed at me for buying a non-working mixer so any help greatfully appreciated!

Cheers,

Mike
 
S2udio 2/11/2013 11:01 AM
Check the PSU ,for a low +/- 17v Rail low or missing,check the ANAIO board power connectors and PSU with a DMM to the Ana-ground.The power caps at the power input to the board fail replace with better Q caps.
The schematics are available here somewhere.
Also if the psu 17+ adjustment pot has drifted low, the current limit kicks in on power up.
Adjust until both rails are about +/- 17.4v (+/- 0.2 v between rails) if you cant get them within that,....A psu recap usually cures it.
 
Gancho 2/11/2013 3:22 PM
Hi,

Really appreciate your response. I get nothing on ANAIO +/-17v or +48v but +3v and +5v work so I guess that is the issue or one of them. No sign of blown caps and I've re-soldered the joints if they look iffy. Which caps should I start with or do I need to do the whole board?

Cheers,

Mike
 
S2udio 2/12/2013 12:49 PM
Well if your getting no +/- 17v or 48v then that section of the PSU ,has gone awol.
There are 3 sections to the psu,which becomes obvious when you open it up.
I suspect the PWM switch chip KA1M0880 may have failed,usualy accompanied by the TVS suppressor and feedback opto.
If thats the failure a Total recap is required apart from the two bulk DC caps. Recommend a recap anyway as the electros are economy 105deg types
This can also be caused by a short on the ANAIO board...!,
Hope this sets you in the right direction,
And please be carefull 360v DC bites !!...........

Cheers
Paul
 
Nisse 2/20/2013 4:06 PM
Check out #34 in this thread if that could help.

// Nisse
 
Steve Conner 2/21/2013 5:02 AM
Quote Originally Posted by philbo View Post
Wow - - What all this says to me: "Stay the hell away from Behringer gear until they learn how to design reliable electronics"
The market gets the cost/quality tradeoff it wants. Behringer sell a lot of stuff, that says to me that they got the tradeoff right. They recently bought Midas and Klark Teknik, and are bringing out some amazing new digital mixers.

Notice how the "cheap Chinese trash monger" was making enough money to buy out two high-end companies.
 
Han 2/28/2013 1:46 PM
Long time waiting for the chip from china but at the end it's replaced.
The cpu board is working but... the DSP board is not (error text "DSP not responding" in display).
When placing this board in my second ddx it gives the same text in display so the board is bad.
Power is + 3.3 and + 5 volt.
I can compare signals with a scoop, is there anybody to give me hints where to start....
 
Han 2/28/2013 1:49 PM
Long time waiting for the chip from china but at the end it's replaced.
The cpu board is working but... the DSP board is not (error text "DSP not responding" in display).
When placing this board in my second ddx it gives the same text in display so the board is bad.
Power is + 3.3 and + 5 volt.
I can compare signals with a scoop, is there anybody to give me hints where to start....
 
S2udio 3/4/2013 11:07 AM
Check the DSP chips for shorts and check the XTAL for correct frequency....
Also I cannot emphasize enough on replacing the electros with quality components !
 
Han 3/5/2013 8:07 AM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Check the DSP chips for shorts and check the XTAL for correct frequency....
Also I cannot emphasize enough on replacing the electros with quality components !
Thanks for the tip, the board was getting a lot of power from 3.3 v (1200 mA) there was 1 chip adsp21065L which was feeling hot after a few minutes so i removed it now the board gets 300 mA so i think that was a bad one.
Farnell has a replacement ($50) but looking in china they sell it for $11, so i ordered it and when i replaced it i'l let you know.
 
SHORT EDDY 3/10/2013 9:08 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
Fantastic!! Where/how did you get the schematics? I've searched a lot on the net for this, but never found anything! Thanks a lot!
Well, as mention earlier, it's quite usual that there are bad solderings on the PSU board. The first step would be to check them. It's very hard to see if the soldering is bad just with your eyes. You will need at least a good magnifying glass, or microscope.
Here's an image of a typical bad soldering that I had on my PSU.
(Click on it to enlarge)
/Nisse
[ATTACH=CONFIG]14118[/ATTACH]
In reference to a previous comment of mine about solder joint failure and the encyclopedia response I got in defense of a brand that sucks in my opinion.
Throw away cheap functional while they work junk.
This just proves that if you don't think solder joint failure is common, then you're not looking hard enough. (note the brand)
Thanks for posting this Nisse
That will be all for now
 
LupoAlbertoVB 4/4/2013 8:48 AM
Hi, I am also an owner of the DDX3216, which I bought obviously used some time ago for my band. It worked well in all the ins and the outs that we were using. BUT… recently I tried to connect an amplifier to the TAPE OUT output (for the first time ever, given that we always used a DAT recorder connected to the S-Pdif digital output as a DA converter), and got a very tiny (and I mean barely audible) signal from the speakers, with the volume of the amp cranked all the way up. After changing the cable, testing the amp and the speakers, the problem is definitely in the DDX3216. The tiny signal I'm getting is clear as it should be, no distortion or digital noise, so I assume that at least the DA converter on that output is good.
So what could be that prevents the signal from going out from that output with a decent volume?
P.S. Tested even with the DEFAULT snapshot, thinking that it could have been something wrong on the settings we made.
 
Nisse 9/9/2013 1:18 PM
Quote Originally Posted by LupoAlbertoVB View Post
Hi, I am also an owner of the DDX3216, which I bought obviously used some time ago for my band. It worked well in all the ins and the outs that we were using. BUT recently I tried to connect an amplifier to the TAPE OUT output (for the first time ever, given that we always used a DAT recorder connected to the S-Pdif digital output as a DA converter), and got a very tiny (and I mean barely audible) signal from the speakers, with the volume of the amp cranked all the way up. After changing the cable, testing the amp and the speakers, the problem is definitely in the DDX3216. The tiny signal I'm getting is clear as it should be, no distortion or digital noise, so I assume that at least the DA converter on that output is good.
So what could be that prevents the signal from going out from that output with a decent volume?
P.S. Tested even with the DEFAULT snapshot, thinking that it could have been something wrong on the settings we made.
Hi,
As I can see there are either the output transistors (T9 - T12) or the OPs at the output (IC1, IC2 or IC9) that could fail (if not the D/A). See the attached image.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]25091[/ATTACH]

Regards,
Nisse
 
jrfrond 9/16/2013 8:22 AM
It's hard to believe that someone would attempt to repair unit like this, which was a piece of crap to begin with, over the course of two years. There's a reason they didn't last on the market for too long. Now, the Behringer X32 is quite a different story.
 
JD13208 9/19/2013 12:56 PM
Hi I am new here and have got this DDX3216 from a friend who said it was working perfectly and had shipped it to me.
When I unpacked and powered it up, everything came on except the LCD which only lights up abt half and is completly black.
Have been trying to fix the issue but I am not very experienced with LCD's
Is it a fault of the LCD or any other IC, PSU related issue?

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
 
guitardad 10/2/2013 2:04 AM
Quote Originally Posted by JD13208 View Post
Hi I am new here and have got this DDX3216 from a friend who said it was working perfectly and had shipped it to me.
When I unpacked and powered it up, everything came on except the LCD which only lights up abt half and is completly black.
Have been trying to fix the issue but I am not very experienced with LCD's
Is it a fault of the LCD or any other IC, PSU related issue?

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
Start by replacing filter caps in the power supply. There are many.
 
JD13208 10/10/2013 1:02 AM
"guitardad " Hi thanks for the info do you have a list of caps that go into the PSU. Would be grateful if you could share the same


Thanks
 
guitardad 10/10/2013 1:29 AM
Quote Originally Posted by JD13208 View Post
"guitardad " Hi thanks for the info do you have a list of caps that go into the PSU. Would be grateful if you could share the same


Thanks
IIRC

2- 220UF @ 63v
3- 1UF @50v
9-1000UF @16v
8-2200UF @10v
1- 470UF @35v
3- 47UF @ 25v

(and a partridge in a pear tree) lol


I just took one of these in today so I will have to look up the rest. I think those cover it though. The one I took in has a display problem as well. I won't get to it until tomorrow.

Interesting to see so many DDX3216 threads. Must be a lot of caps out there drying up. All I know is these are not real fun to work on. When I recap that SMPS, I make sure I take pics of the connectors and locations as I disassemble the unit. I also use a sharpie and mark specific areas on the board connectors and ribbon connector at cable insert areas. Then they match up exactly as they were. More or less my fail safe.

There is also a crystal common to fail that cause the display issues. You can search for that here in other threads.
 
JD13208 10/10/2013 1:44 AM
Thanks guitardad,

The problem i am having too is with the display. the rest of the mixer works just fine. the display is lighting up completly black half ways.
after reading through the forum i decided to change the PSU caps. Also would like to know if i can replace the display with another 240x64 Monochrome dotmatrix LCD that has a T6963c controller will it work?

Thank you
 
Hoggins! 1/11/2014 6:38 AM
Hello everyone,

I recently acquired a DDX3216, second hand. It's been working perfectly for a few weeks, but I'm starting to experience strange things : the faders slightly randomly move from time to time, and I also could see that sometimes the display is smoothly flickering.
Could that be a PSU problem ? Should I recap ?
I just went over PLZI's explanation on how to dismount (PLZILandia v5.0 - Recapping DDX3216). Very informative.
Anyway, before I attempt to do anything, maybe a little "diagnostic" would help.

Thanks in advance !
 
soundmandoug 1/12/2014 8:03 AM
Hi Hoggins,
I really don't think any "diagnostic" is necessary, other than removing the power supply and seeing which of the outputs are showing excessive noise or are out of tolerance. The symptoms you describe sound very much like power supply to me. There's been much discussion here about a full re-capping of the supply vs targeted diagnostic and "surgical" cap replacement. Because of the expense and potential for damage to the power supply if you're not completely proficient at this sort of thing, I'd recommend the "surgical" approach. I would also suggest that you obtain a reasonable de-soldering tool of some kind and a fairly fine soldering iron, so that you don't overheat the PCB tracks and damage the board when you're trying to remove the old caps. As has been said before, the boards are fairly robust, but you can still damage them if you're not careful.

I've done 6 of these supplies now, and never had a problem, but I do have a nice de-soldering station with electric suction pump - makes life very much easier!

Also, check out my previous post (and others) about increasing the fan air flow over the power supply, so it doesn't deteriorate once you've fixed it!

Regards

Doug
 
Hoggins! 1/12/2014 10:23 AM
Hey Doug,

Thanks a lot for the tips ! Fortunately, I have a full electronics lab at work, and qualified personel that will help me performing the recapping.
And I will certainly follow your advice and improve the airflow !

Cheers.
 
soundmandoug 1/14/2014 1:42 AM
Great, so you're all set! As you have such a setup, I would change my recommendation to "change every cap that you have a replacement for" including the small disc ceramic ones, as they have a history of deteriorating and causing issues such as analog supply startup failure (causing the symptom whereby if you power the desk off, then immediately on, all the "peak" LEDS on the analog input channels light up).

Certainly any Electrolytic with any visible signs of failure (bulging tops) should definitely go!

All the best

Doug
 
Hoggins! 1/14/2014 2:12 AM
Will do ! Thanks a lot !
I'm gonna give this baby a fresh look !
 
bwilds 2/8/2014 6:37 PM
LCD problem
Quote Originally Posted by JD13208 View Post
Hi I am new here and have got this DDX3216 from a friend who said it was working perfectly and had shipped it to me.
When I unpacked and powered it up, everything came on except the LCD which only lights up abt half and is completly black.
Have been trying to fix the issue but I am not very experienced with LCD's
Is it a fault of the LCD or any other IC, PSU related issue?

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
Check R8 on the back of the LCD board, should be 127K and also check R3 should be 47K . if every thing checks good you might want to check with mouser.com and order the LCD screen
the part # is 668-NG-S240064IMNSGW This screen is 240x64 Resolution, Fluid type is STN, Size is W/180mm/H/65mm T/16.1mm.

Hope this is of some help,
Bill wilds
 
bwilds 2/22/2014 12:39 PM
The 668-NG-S240064IMNSGW lcd display will not work, I trying to locate a LCD display that has a DC to DC converter built on
 
saranden 8/14/2014 10:29 AM
I have been looking up and down this thread for some help, but Im still at a loss i'm afraid.
I sold a perfectly good DDX3216 on EBay, it was sent back to me with chewed up screws left right and centre, and No Audio output.
Everything appears to work, all tabs change in the pages in the display, I have an in and output only on the RCA input at the top.
I saw in one of the threads that it could be opamps. Could someone tell me where to look for the op amps, I did find schematics for this so could be directed by you.
I understand what the opamps are as I had to replace some in my Behringer Monitor speakers.
Would this be th very most likely thing to cause no output. When I put an input into say....channel 1, it is showing an input on the peak LED but not on the fader LEDS
 
g1 8/14/2014 11:15 AM
Are all channels the same, or only some channels?
 
saranden 8/15/2014 6:25 AM
Yes.
If I put an audio signal into the line in, it shows it is getting it there at the signal clip :LED and gain control, all channels, but not getting any further. Is there a Left/Right IC which amplifies the signal?
 
WillSloan 8/18/2014 1:39 PM
How can I get the DDXupdate V1.11 to repair my 3216 that won't boot? Behringer has ignored all of my requests.
Thank you!!!!
 
S2udio 8/19/2014 4:20 AM
I have the update ,but I fear that won,t help you as it has to boot to install it.........whats it doing ,anything ?
Usually PSU problems is the first point to check
 
S2udio 8/19/2014 4:49 AM
Quote Originally Posted by saranden View Post
When I put an input into say....channel 1, it is showing an input on the peak LED but not on the fader LEDS
Check the ribbons as its not getting out of the AD section or you have lost the AD supply on the Ana Input section
 
Geejay 8/19/2014 7:58 AM
Hi Guys, I've read all the way through this this thread and found out what's needed to repair at least one of the two I have. Is there anyone in the uk who can do the work on these as I just don't have the ability to do this sort of thing, an absolute novice at anything electronic?

Your assistance really would be so much appreciated.
Regards to all
Geejay
 
WillSloan 8/19/2014 11:08 AM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
I have the update ,but I fear that won,t help you as it has to boot to install it.........whats it doing ,anything ?
Usually PSU problems is the first point to check
Thanks for the reply!
When powered up, the faders reset and the LCD wakes up and displays "Behringer DDX3216" and stays there. I can hold GROUP when powering on and it will successfully go into update mode. I've read that DDXupdate V1.11 is used after powering up while pressing GROUP.
 
S2udio 8/23/2014 1:00 PM
[ATTACH]30207[/ATTACH]

Try this

 
saranden 8/23/2014 1:59 PM
PSU fault
Quote Originally Posted by saranden View Post
Yes.
If I put an audio signal into the line in, it shows it is getting it there at the signal clip :LED and gain control, all channels, but not getting any further. Is there a Left/Right IC which amplifies the signal?
On removing the PSU after finding wrong voltage output on 48v and -17v anain, I discovered a burnt track.
I bridged the damage, and the mixer is up and working again.
 
WillSloan 8/28/2014 12:10 PM
It seems I can't use just the original software version by itself. I'm guessing that the emergency tool (DDXupdate V1.11) is different.
 
S2udio 8/29/2014 1:32 AM
I really don't know what you mean by "emergency tool " as no such thing exists, There is probably corruption of one of the Setting save Eproms or the OS and this will cause boot hang.
First Try reseating the EPROMS , and all the cpu ribbons etc and check for correct voltages at the CPU board.
I can reflash the OS eprom etc ,if it is corrupt or send you a file, if you have a programmer !
 
szexypapucs 4/9/2015 10:47 AM
Try this emergency updating:
Install the update programm to your computer
Connect the DDX to the RS232 port
Start the software
Choose the com port the DDX is connected to
Press down the GROUP button and switch on the mixer
Update will start and last about 10 minutes. Progress is displayed.
 
S2udio 4/9/2015 10:56 AM
Thats fine if the CPU is is working and ready to recieve data.....obviously on a working mixer ?
 
szexypapucs 4/12/2015 3:02 PM
No. After update failed with no sart.
 
efxmla 4/19/2015 3:18 AM
Hi Guys! I am really running out of luck with my Behringer DDX3216 LCD. Does anybody have suggestions for a replacement unit? I purchased a similar type LCD from Crystal Fontz America but it has 8 data I/O's and the AMD sc300-33kc has 4. Unfortunately I cant make it work and no reply from Behringer because they already stopped production of these units. Any ideas? Very much appreciated for any suggestions. Thanks!
 
altruistica 11/10/2015 5:22 AM
I've just picked up a DDX3216 off Ebay.
I used them a few years ago and thought they were pretty good. When I checked this one thro' before buying it, it seemed fine. When I got it home and checked a bit further with a dynamic mic after about half an hour, the headphones I was listening on went 'phasey' as if you had a digital signal routed twice to the output. I re-booted and tried a condensor with phantom power. The mixer crackled even with the volume down when selecting the phantom and still with the phased sound. It wouldn't go away even with a re-boot. I left it for the rest of the day. The next day I fitted a couple of ADAT cards to it, which worked fine again for about half an hour when the sound fizzled out and became very distorted. Knowing the issues these units have with power supplies, I thought it was time to open her up and see what gives. After reading several reports of how to dismantle it, I reached the power supply and removed it. There were no obvious signs of bulging caps, although the circuit board does look a little red under some of the caps. I thought I'd re-connect it to see if the problem was simply a dry joint on a ribbon connector. When I re-connected the mixer, I had the half lights illuminated episode documented elsewhere, with a '+1 8' illuminated in the red LED scene display. Surely this is some kind of fault report?
I have since removed the supply and also tested it back in situ. I see the following:

Power to ANALOG CONNECTORS:
47.9V
-16.8V
17.0V
0V
4.9V
3.3V

Power to IOCONN 01
5.1V
0V
0V
3.3V

Power to DSP01
3.3V
0V
0V
5.1V

Power to Contr 1.1
-8V
+8V
0V
-8V
+8V
0V
5.1V

Power to Fader Board
5.1V
0V
0V
5.1V
5.1V

Power to Display Board
5.1V
0V
0V
5.1V

Power to CPU 01
-12.2V
11.9V
3.3V
5.1V

I didn't register anything on Q3 but did on Q2...I think about 2.4V. Is that significant?

I don't understand why the unit worked (albeit with a fault) before I started dismantling it and now it won't power up other than half lights and buttons illuminated (other than the obvious....I've broken it by dismantling it).

Do the readings above warrant a full re-cap and replacement of Q3 as a starting point?

Thanks
Al
 
guitardad 11/11/2015 8:06 PM
You can get an ESR meter to check the electrolytic caps in the PS, but I'd just change them out to better capacitors. Find some in the 105 temp range.

I used a combination of Panasonic and Nichicon brands. Mostly were Panasonic. Some were 125 deg range, but those are harder to find now. 105 should be plenty. 85 is too low since these units get pretty hot inside and there is just a tiny fan on the side to dissipate the internal heat. Worse is when people rack mount these and block that air flow.
 
wavesound 1/1/2016 6:37 PM
Hi
Just found this site!
I have four mixers and am looking to service them and repair them.
I'll be trawling these pages for a few days.
Many thanks
Bob
 
altruistica 1/1/2016 10:35 PM
Quote Originally Posted by wavesound View Post
Hi
Just found this site!
I have four mixers and am looking to service them and repair them.
I'll be trawling these pages for a few days.
Many thanks
Bob
Hi Bob,

If you get anywhere with them please report back here as I still need to fix mine.

Cheers
Al
 
SHORT EDDY 1/2/2016 11:51 AM
Thanks for this informative thread!
I have a desk with the classic problems described here...
Screen has horizontal lines of random thickness, alternate buttons lit, led ladders half lit, faders rise to top like snails.
My first move was to check the PS for correct voltages and no ripple while disconnected.
All voltages checked out very closely to spec with no noise.
Re connected supply- all but +/-8v are good. Reading +7.1, -8.9.
Thought that I would hit you guys up before proceeding. (Thank you for the schematics!)
Started going for a re cap in the PS. EVERY 1000mfd 16V I tested was within range. (mostly over) These SEEM like high quality 105c caps. Do some of these supplies have upgraded cap specs?
Are there any specific areas that I want to address while I'm inside, to make it more trouble free?
I thought that it would be wise to re cap the PS to eliminate future common failures.
Does this 8V anomaly sound like anything familiar BESIDES JUST the PS?
Thank you all in advance.
 
SHORT EDDY 1/4/2016 6:04 PM
This is what I just pulled out of mine.
This is a 100% list of the electrolytics.

2X 820uf @200v
10X 1000uf @16v
6X 1000uf @25v
6X 2200uf @10v
2X 220uf @63v
1X 470uf @35v
2X 220uf @25v
3X 1uf @50v
4X 10uf @50v
3X 47uf @25v
ALL 105C
 
S2udio 1/6/2016 1:02 AM
Also replace the "watch type" 32 meg xtal on the CPU board
 
SHORT EDDY 1/6/2016 9:57 PM
Thanks, I'll put it on my parts list.
How about the pair of "stubby" 820uf caps? Not having any luck with Mouser. Tried 1000uf too. Everything is too tall. Need the low profile ones.
Was hoping to get everything from one source.
Has anyone found a fit from Mouser?

I was apparently only having imbalance issues with the 8v section. My cap testers don't have an ESR function but the only ones that tested low were the 820's and the 1's.
Are there any specific areas in the 8v section that I should focus on besides the electrolytics?
After discovery of the 8v problem, I re-seated everything and applied DeoxIT sparingly. All symptoms remained exactly the same. All the voltages were in range and rock solid except the 8v (+7.1 -8.9).
Does it sound like there could be anything else going on by the symptoms?
Should I go ahead and replace C-12,17,18&23? (my plan) What about D-4&5?
 
S2udio 1/9/2016 4:30 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SHORT EDDY View Post
How about the pair of "stubby" 820uf caps?
No need to change those, they will probably outlive you !

Quote Originally Posted by SHORT EDDY View Post
All the voltages were in range and rock solid except the 8v (+7.1 -8.9).
About a volt offset ....is this measured disconected from the fader board, or connected,.
Seeing its not actually booting up, dont bother with the fader 8v at the moment, it will give an error message if the board is disconnected. messages first.
In fact it will boot with errors if only the display and CPU connected and powered and up, do you get that far.

Edit..... Quote from a another disjointed thread ......."With all ribbons disconnected from the CPU board (display connected) the display should then Display DDX3216 , followed by bars and then blank."
 
SHORT EDDY 1/10/2016 10:32 AM
This might be an easy fix for Admin.
There are 5 pages to this thread. When I sign in, I can only go to this point. This is the bottom of the page now. When I sign out, I can see all 5 pages.
Easy fix?
 
g1 1/10/2016 12:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SHORT EDDY View Post
There are 5 pages to this thread. When I sign in, I can only go to this point. This is the bottom of the page now. When I sign out, I can see all 5 pages.
Easy fix?
This is due to your settings while logged in.
settings> general settings> thread display options> thread display mode

I believe "linear - oldest first" would be the same as what you see when not logged in.
 
SHORT EDDY 1/10/2016 12:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
No need to change those, they will probably outlive you !



About a volt offset ....is this measured disconected from the fader board, or connected,.
Seeing its not actually booting up, dont bother with the fader 8v at the moment, it will give an error message if the board is disconnected. messages first.
In fact it will boot with errors if only the display and CPU connected and powered and up, do you get that far.

Edit..... Quote from a another disjointed thread ......."With all ribbons disconnected from the CPU board (display connected) the display should then Display DDX3216 , followed by bars and then blank."
I see that my comment went to page 5.
Anyway, I checked the PSU unplugged first with all good, stable voltages. Then I plugged everything in and re-checked, only the 8v was off when plugged in.
I will re- install the 820uf caps on your advice. (I thought that they might be deteriorating since they tested at around 700uf using 2 testers)
The symptoms have remained constant since the start...Thick horizontal lines on screen, meter ladder lights all the way up alternately, faders crawl to the top like snails.
Is the stock crystal just junk or is there another reason for their common failure? Would it's failure cause my symptoms?
None of the other caps tested low except the 1uf's, and none showed any signs of expansion. I'm just having a hunch that my problem was not in the PSU but I'm re-capping for reliability. All the chips and plugs were re-seated with DeoxIT with no change in symptoms.
I guess the next step is trying out the re-capped unit with a new 32.768.
 
g1 1/10/2016 1:40 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SHORT EDDY View Post
I see that my comment went to page 5.
The forum is set up that all posts are displayed in order of age (consecutive). First post in a topic will appear first, last post (newest) appears last. That's the way it has always been on this forum.
If you want to see it differently you can do that with the settings I mentioned in post #173
 
SHORT EDDY 1/10/2016 2:40 PM
This is just too weird.
I reset my thread display mode from hybrid to oldest first.
I still can only go to Pg.4 post #140 when I'm logged in.
If I click on Pg.5 or last>>, it takes me to Pg.1.
I can only grab a quote if I log off, go to the post, hit reply with quote, and sign in from that page.
Vewy, vewy scwoowy.
I'm running Windows7 with Firefox.
 
SHORT EDDY 1/10/2016 3:10 PM
Quote Originally Posted by SHORT EDDY View Post
This is just too weird.
I reset my thread display mode from hybrid to oldest first.
I still can only go to Pg.4 post #140 when I'm logged in.
If I click on Pg.5 or last>>, it takes me to Pg.1.
I can only grab a quote if I log off, go to the post, hit reply with quote, and sign in from that page.
Vewy, vewy scwoowy.
I'm running Windows7 with Firefox.
Now it seems to be fixed??
Never mind...
 
szexypapucs 1/13/2016 1:10 PM
DDXUpdate V1.11 how van I downoad? No search gave me a location of this program even behringer support Thanx for your help
 
SHORT EDDY 1/15/2016 2:26 PM
I have a pile of surplus (Boeing) 125c multi layer 1uf 50v caps. Would it be acceptable to use those in place of the "103's" & "104's" that are running at 17v and under? Which ceramics would you recommend replacing (I broke the little yellow sliver 104 that was beside the 1uf in the 17v section) and with what?
I'm expecting my parts to arrive within the next 24 hrs. I didn't include any ceramics because I have a hefty surplus of Boeing quality stuff.
Am I safe going up to 1uf on those low volt ceramics?
Thanks for the help.
 
SHORT EDDY 1/22/2016 11:01 AM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Also replace the "watch type" 32 meg xtal on the CPU board



Update: Finished replacing the caps. All voltages check out good now while disconnected. Fired it up, exact same symptoms. Replaced the crystal, exact same symptoms. Haven't checked voltages while connected. (crying too hard, couldn't see)
After reading through this thread, I thought for sure the PSU repair would make it work again. That's a lot of time and money to get nowhere.
Now I'm committed.
Next step checking voltages while connected?
Desperate, PLEASE help?

Once again to clarify, the symptoms include faders crawling like snails to the top, LED ladders half way up, every other solo & mute lit, "Random" buttons lit, screen has random horizontal lines of varied thickness.
Thank you many times in advance!
 
SHORT EDDY 1/22/2016 11:44 AM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
No need to change those, they will probably outlive you !



About a volt offset ....is this measured disconected from the fader board, or connected,.
Seeing its not actually booting up, dont bother with the fader 8v at the moment, it will give an error message if the board is disconnected. messages first.
In fact it will boot with errors if only the display and CPU connected and powered and up, do you get that far.

Edit..... Quote from a another disjointed thread ......."With all ribbons disconnected from the CPU board (display connected) the display should then Display DDX3216 , followed by bars and then blank."
Sorry, I misunderstood this before reading it twice. Tried powering up with only display and power to CPU...Exact same symptoms.
 
S2udio 1/23/2016 6:20 AM
Changed the 32Mhz xtal ?
If that has no effect looks like the OS rom IC19 is possibly corrupt or worst case CPU death.
Try reflowing the CPU chip, have found faults with the soldering on these boards before
 
SHORT EDDY 1/23/2016 12:45 PM
Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
Changed the 32Mhz xtal ?
If that has no effect looks like the OS rom IC19 is possibly corrupt or worst case CPU death.
Try reflowing the CPU chip, have found faults with the soldering on these boards before
Is CPU death that likely since the PSU didn't have a catastrophic failure? There was no ripple anywhere, only an imbalance of the 8V by a volt.

Replaced the 32mhz with a new one from Mouser (after PSU repair/test). Was very careful bending leads and heating. I used my finger as a heat sink/sensor for the case.

What method are you suggesting for reflow? I don't own a reflow oven. I have a good (Fluke) IR thermometer, a good heat gun and a kitchen gas oven.
Are there some basic troubleshooting procedures that I can go by?
I've been staying away from digital/SMD repairs but it looks like it's time for me to learn the "new" stuff. Most of my gear is rigged for through hole analog audio. I am considering buying a new (or used) o'scope. The one I'm using is an OLD Leader 50mhz. I'm open to any advice on preferred gear. I'm not stuck on names like Fluke or Weller. There's lots of good gear out there.
One of my strong points is detecting bad solder joints. I have decades of experience soldering/desoldering through hole stuff. Have had some success with SMD repairs. Have had almost as many failures there too. Some PCB's appear too delicate to do ANY heating on.
I have a fair understanding of digital basics but I've been pretty much focused on analog audio. Ready to learn.
I've been scanning Craigslist in hopes of finding a good mixer with a bad PSU that I can get for cheap to swap boards with. That would probably be the quickest route to troubleshooting/repair.
I'm not finding anyone who has matched symptoms with problem/failures. I saw another thread with the same symptoms with the exception of the faders "crawling" to the top. Never found a direct solution.
Are most people just throwing up their hands and trashing the units? I've never cared for Behringer "quality", and I've never purchased any of their gear. I HAVE had to work with/on it though. This mixer was given to me by the original owner. I have no investment besides parts and time into it.
It would be nice to be able to get it running so I can SELL it and get it out of my sight ASAP!
Thanks for being here!
 
wavesound 2/9/2016 8:35 AM
Quote Originally Posted by JUAN View Post
I have a behringer ddx3216 i was using it fine, i just powered it off and came back to power it on and it froze, it just stays on the initial screen where it says "ddx3216" i tried pressing ch1-16 and setup and nothing, i tried turning it on and off several times and nothin, it just stays on the initial screen, what possibly could it be?
Hi I have four of these desks all about 12 to 13 years old ( Behringer Haters don't like this fact)
The problem you have could be the multi pins connectors. A forum member told me years ago to open the desk and try push all connectors together. including the small power connectors. This worked for me. Good luck.
 
wavesound 2/9/2016 8:47 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Steve Conner View Post
The market gets the cost/quality tradeoff it wants. Behringer sell a lot of stuff, that says to me that they got the tradeoff right. They recently bought Midas and Klark Teknik, and are bringing out some amazing new digital mixers.

Notice how the "cheap Chinese trash monger" was making enough money to buy out two high-end companies.
As I have said all my mixers are well over 7 years old and two are 13 years old!
If they need stuff doing to them they have earned it. There is still no budget desk that can rival the DDX. I'm back to using a Yamaha analogue!! its just over a year old and channel one has died. It's like going back to the dark ages!!
 
wavesound 2/9/2016 8:50 AM
Hi Quite new here
Can I still get the firmware to reflash the os? If so I'll have to find a laptop with a serial port.
Cheers Bob
 
S2udio 10/18/2016 10:52 PM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]41175[/ATTACH] As many have asked me, and i forgot the password on the original file here is the eeprom bin files with no password
 
Ale3006 11/8/2016 11:11 AM
Hello everyone. I own a DDX3216. I bought used with the defect of powering up and not initializing. All LEDs light up alternately. +1 8 on the display. I changed all the PSU capacitors, I changed the Crystal 32k. I cleaned all the plates.

By connecting only the display to the main board, I get only a few black bars and they disappear after a few seconds.

I have 2v voltage on Crystal Q1, 0.500v on Q3.

CPU AMD has died?

Can I reprogram the IC19 to recover the mixer?

RS232 only works after full boot?

thanks.
 
dutch_anykey 1/24/2017 2:52 AM
Hello everyone,

I was reading this forum posts related to the ddx3216. I have one that I got cheap. All is working exept for the display. At startup it shows an image when contrast dial is turned completely down. But after a few seconds the screen goes dark. I think it could be related to the bias voltage for the contrast. Maybe bad caps? Anyway I downloaded the schematics for this desk, but like others in this thread I got the vesion where the display part is not complete. Would someone be so kind and put this schematic up again where it is all complete? Would be much appreciated
Any help would be welcome too.

I put a youtube movie with the symptoms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48NUk1Lw2sI&t=0s


Could it be because of overall bad PSU voltages? (All seems to be working fine though) That's what I wanted to check first anyway and do a recap. But maybe first get the display to work correctly, because a replacement display is nowhere to be found.

kind regards,
Maurice
 
guitardad 1/24/2017 10:23 PM
Recap the main PS, and then change the small caps on the Display board.
 
dutch_anykey 1/25/2017 12:29 AM
Quote Originally Posted by guitardad View Post
Recap the main PS, and then change the small caps on the Display board.
Hi Guitardad,

Thanks. The caps are ordered yesterday. However the voltages of the PS are o.k. (Checked with volt meter, but maybe I should have checked with meter on AC or with my scope for ripples) The capacitors look all o.k. from the outside. No bulging ones or leaking elco stuff on the pcb. But going to recap anyway just to have it done, else I will have to do it later anyway.
I think the problem is the caps on the LCD PCB. I changed the 10mF caps already for new ones (non smd) I had these lying around. the 10mF's were really bad, they couldnt hold any load. I checked the 4,7 uF ones (around the LM324), they are dead as well. It would make sense, because it is providing the Vee voltage for the display. Will report back when I have the caps.

thanks,
br
Maurice
 
dutch_anykey 1/26/2017 4:42 AM
Hi,

Replaced all the caps on the display board (10 and 4.7 uF) But that didnt help. Still looking for the complete display part schematic.
Hmm going to check the voltages again under load with a voltmeter and scope. It's that those internal cables are so short. no room really to measure.
Stil waiting on the PSU caps to arrive.

br
Maurice
 
guitardad 1/26/2017 7:54 AM
Quote Originally Posted by dutch_anykey View Post
Hi,

Replaced all the caps on the display board (10 and 4.7 uF) But that didnt help. Still looking for the complete display part schematic.
Hmm going to check the voltages again under load with a voltmeter and scope. It's that those internal cables are so short. no room really to measure.
Stil waiting on the PSU caps to arrive.

br
Maurice
Wait until you recap the PS or you may be chasing your tail. What were the PS voltages off those lv rails?
 
dutch_anykey 1/26/2017 8:36 AM
Hi Guitardad,


I checked the power connector when everything is connected:

should be:
+5
DG
DG
+3v3
DG
+12
-12

is now:

5.37
DG
DG
3.29
DG
11.97
-11.75


Not sure how accuate those voltages should be? But that 5.37 is a bit high isnt it? And if caps would be bad I would suspect lower voltages instead. But caps are on their way so lets do that first.

br
Maurice
 
nickb 1/26/2017 11:53 AM
That looks like a bad connection on the display - like a signal is floating. I'm not familiar with this mixer but it's quite common to find elastomeric connectors between the PCB and the LCD that are a source of trouble. If it has you many be able to apply a little pressure or move them is some small way and see if it helps. It could be a bad solder joint so inspect thoroughly, using a least a decent magnifying glass.

I suspect changing all the PSU caps will be a waste of time & money. especially as the voltages are OK.
 
Jazz P Bass 1/26/2017 3:47 PM
You really do need a scope & an LCD datasheet to see what is going on with the LCD.
Initializing an LCD is a tad more complex than simply applying voltages.
 
dutch_anykey 1/26/2017 7:34 PM
Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.

@nikb: Yes it is a lcd with this elastomeric connectors between the glass and pcb. But I think the connections are o.k. Because the screen turns dark with no "empty" lines between them (specially with the potentiometer disconnected, which means maximum contrast setting)

@ Jazz P Bass: The tools are no problem, I got a microscope and a descent scope. But yes indeed without the specs of the display it is difficult. I really would like to have the complete schematic with the contrast setting part. It's only partially there in all the schematics that i have found online. And on the lcd itself there is no info at all.
Since the rest of the mixer is running well (tested with sound on input and headphones connected to the mixer), I'm really suspecting the problem is on the display pcb itself. The contrast regulating part in particular. Normally you would just order a new display and be done with it, but these are just no where to be found. And a drop in replacement wouldnt have gone unnoticed on the web.
I don't even know what voltage the contrast voltage has to be. Normally this is a higher negative voltage compared to the +5 volt Vcc. I think the SCI7654 chip on the lcd PCB is responsible for generating this voltage (dc-dc converter that can quadriple the input voltage and outputs it as a negative voltage) But the schematic only shows half of the chip and connections But I think this chip drives the nagative voltage needed to bring the contrast. This voltage goes to the next chip (LM324) which devides the voltage in 4 steps and sends each "step" to the 4 control IC's (display driver and character processor) that are connected to display itself. If only I had some more info on the display itself and a complete schematic haha So each pixel voltage would be the negative contrast voltage plus the small voltage that comes from the display driver for each pixel. I even wonder now if this measured vcc 5.4 Volts instead of the exact 5 volt would be enough to disturb that voltage balance.

When the mixer is turned of for a few hours and then turned on, for a few seconds I can see the startup logo and somewhat the menu for a few seconds after that. But then after a short while it goes black (like it is shown in the video) turning it off an on again doesnt help, it needs to be off for a while again and then I get some picture again for a few seconds.

It's driving me nuts haha. I want to fix this thing, its keeping me occupied.

It's 4 in the morning here, just got back from an emergency callout from work, I probably shouldnt have rattled on here with my sleepy head

br
Maurice
 
g1 1/27/2017 12:46 PM
At this point I would agree with guitardad and just recap the psu anyway. If nothing else it will be preventive maintenance.

My opinion of SMPS just got adjusted. I recently replaced the smps in my 8 yr. old vista computer. It had been running fine though a little slow I thought. Then it was just dead.
11 of 14 electrolytics in the supply were dead. Not just a bit off, shot. Yet it had seemed fine till it quit. Those 11 caps did not die overnight, one of them maybe. To top it off, about 6 of them were the same value, voltage, and (strange) brand. Every one of those was a different physical size! For all I know they were salvaged from a junk pile and re-labeled.
Sure changed my opinion on cheap caps in smps though. I don't think longevity is a design concern.
 
guitardad 1/27/2017 1:20 PM
Yeah the caps have been a source of many oddball symptoms with these. Start there.
 
dutch_anykey 1/27/2017 3:20 PM
Hi,

The caps will be on my doorstep tommorow according to tracking. So I will go ahead wih recapping the PSU anyway. Will let you know what the results will be, probably tomorrow evening

In the meanwhile I have been reading up on datasheets of the chips that are on the LCD PCB. Just trying to figure out the whole picture on how this LCD circuitry works. Like these voltage steps created around this lm324 chip I mentioned earlier on. After recap is done and it still isn't working i will go from there. But man it would be great if it is the PSU afterall.
 
dutch_anykey 1/28/2017 2:39 PM
O.k. the recapping job didn't bring anything. Still the exact same symptoms. I dialed the voltage down from 5.4 to 5.0 volts. But no difference either.
I suspect the LM324 or else the SCI7654 chip on the LCD PCB. Going to hold the pcb under my microscope and trace all routes to complete the missing parts in the schematic. From there figure out what voltages should be present in those cuircuits.

br
Maurice
 
dutch_anykey 1/29/2017 11:54 AM
Hey guys,

This is going to be a difficult story. Seems like the lm324 and SCI7654 are doing their jobs. At least if the negative voltage should be around -10 volts. with contrast pot the voltage is between -9.36 and -12.4 volts. But I have no reference from a working display. So I'm more or less stuck here. Maybe the toshiba end drivers (4 big chips on the lcd display) are failing.
Suggestions are welcome to check something.

br
Maurice
 
dutch_anykey 1/31/2017 4:44 AM
Hi guys,

Some good news and some bad news.
So I did proper measurements on the LM324 circuit. The circuit is responsible for producing the various voltages need to drive the lcd. (v2,v3,v4,v5 and vee) it goes to the toshiba row and column drivers. the total sum of this voltage is this negative voltage that comes from the SCI7654 chip and this voltage is also altered by the contrast pot. (varies between -9.36 and 12.3 volts in my case)
To get the separate voltages v2.v3 etc. there is a series network of resistors R5,R4,R3,R6 and R2. So they work as a voltage devider. There you have the voltages, but you can not bring this voltages directly to the display since it will alter the voltage when a load is added to the resister. Her the LM324 comes in. It is wired to be a "voltage follower" it means it reproduces the input voltage and outputs it on the output. In this way it can handle the load request from the toshiba drivers.

What I found on my display is that one voltage was way off on the output of the lm324. Ordered a new one and put it in. Voila it works...happy dance. But only for 5 minutes. Because the display was turning darker and darker again. So I suspect the new LM324 is dying again. weeeeh.
I will go on for a little bit. But this thing is just about to get me down and give up. I suspect the the toshiba driver is going faulty and drains to much power, or the lcd itself is faulty. Not sure how i'm going to check this yet.

Another thing that i haven't mentioned yet, just before i found the lm324 fault I also decided to disassemble the LCD itself and check these rubbery connection...So I'm missing a few lines But I guess I can get those back with adjusting the alignment of the rubber.

I will put up my drawing this evening of the circuitry of the LCD that i have drawn up. Maybe some future reader can have an advantage of it.

br
Maurice
 
g1 1/31/2017 12:06 PM
Quote Originally Posted by dutch_anykey View Post
there is a series network of resistors R5,R4,R3,R6 and R2. So they work as a voltage devider. There you have the voltages, but you can not bring this voltages directly to the display since it will alter the voltage when a load is added to the resister. Her the LM324 comes in. It is wired to be a "voltage follower" it means it reproduces the input voltage and outputs it on the output. In this way it can handle the load request from the toshiba drivers.

What I found on my display is that one voltage was way off on the output of the lm324. Ordered a new one and put it in. Voila it works...happy dance. But only for 5 minutes. Because the display was turning darker and darker again. So I suspect the new LM324 is dying again. weeeeh.
Those resistors and their solder connections are good? Can you verify that the voltages going in to the lm324 are remaining good while the outputs go bad?
 
dutch_anykey 1/31/2017 1:52 PM
Hi g1,

Yes the the voltages on the input resistors are stable. It's really the output voltage that is slowly slipping. BUT, i got a little further and I think I found the reason for this
I also told you that I disassembled the LCD and that I was missing some lines. So I took it apart again cleaned everything with 99% alcohol and carefully put it together again. And surprise the display is working o.k. now. Maybe in one corner it is still a tad off. So nickb was right on the money here with the comment about the elastomeric connector!!

From what I see now, this might have be the root cause of the display not working when I bought it and killing the LM324. What might have happened is that some connections got shorted through this elastomeric connector and a higher voltage was fed back to to lower voltage connection. The guy where i bought it from was using it "in the field" So I bet this unit has had it's fair share of beating and bumping when moving it around to and from gigs. I guess the elastomeric connector got shifted.

For now I'm afraid that this unit can only be used in a stationary studio environment. Not really a situation that I bought it for. But lets see how it goes.

So thank you all for thinking along with me! It was a great help. Next on the table will be a behringer EP2500 PA .... I already took a peek. I thought it would be simpeler then this mixer, but I noticed this 2 step power supply in the end stages...brrrrr

Here is the drawing i made up to understand what was going on:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42245[/ATTACH]
 
dutch_anykey 2/1/2017 5:33 AM
One more thing,

Maybe people that own a ddx3216 can help me on this one: Do you have to play a lot with the contrast pot during normal use?
I build the display in the case and put the few hundred screws back in to have it completely finished. But I experience a rather high temperature drift that needs constant corrections on the contrast pot.
So, took the display out again, and then noticed when holding my fingers on the 4,7 uF caps that the contrast changes. blowing cold air over it changes it in the other direction. One of the first things during this repair was changing the caps for new ones because the old ones measured zip capacitance. I wondered if the new caps might be wrong.... It's the standard alu smd caps. So I changed them for normal electrolyte caps. But the result is more or less the same. I wonder if there are caps that have solid capacitance over a wide temperature range.

br
Maurice
 
nickb 2/1/2017 10:59 AM
Is there any chance C7 (on your schematic) is bad or inserted the wrong way round on the board?

Those voltages should not be so sensitive to temperature. The capacitor leakage current might vary a bit with temperature but the output impedance of the LM324 is so low that it should not matter. Quite possibly, with one output bad, that voltage is varying as the LM324 is not behaving as it should.
 
dutch_anykey 2/1/2017 3:11 PM
Hi Nickb,

The display is all garbled again (so it got worse)
The capacitors are new and just double checked that the orientation is right. I quickly measured with a component tracker (not sure if you know this device in combination with a scope) from there I can see that the output of the lm324 is most probably dead again. It is late so I will measure decently tomorrow.
What I have observed on the LCD glass plate itself in this faulty mode is that there are some darker lines. And I mean darker so that they stand out from other black lines. Maybe this indicates a short in the lcd itself, So it gets a combination of voltages on those lines and therefore are more black. Perhaps that's why I was seeing this abnormal voltage on the lm324. So that voltage not coming from the lm324 side, but coming back from the lcd plate.
If the LCD plate is shot, I'm done. No way I can find a replacement. But I will try to measure and find ways to confirm that tomorrow.

As for the mixer itself, during the time it worked I took the opportunity to fiddle around with it. I must say it is very nice with the compressors. limiters, FX's and more stuff build in. So the basic things really can be programmed without knowing to much about this unit. And it saves the need to have external effects and compressor/limiters.
 
nickb 2/1/2017 3:50 PM
The problem with messed up multiplex voltages on an LCD is that if on average there is a DC voltage then it can damage the LCD. It is possible you could isolated the 'bad' LM324 output from the driven part ( cut track) to confirm that the driven part is the problem? I would expect these voltages to do to a switch of some kind that actually does the multiplexing. If that is external to the LCD then you may be able to replace it. If internal, then game over.

I have heard of many kinds test equipment in this area but a component tracker is a new one on me. I suspect something might have been lost in translation. Perhaps you are mean a Bode analyzer (Vector network analyzer)?
 
dutch_anykey 2/2/2017 3:28 AM
Hi,

Regarding the tracker (anyway that's how we call it locally here) I did a quick search on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF0cdoetwRw , so it is more or less the first vid I came across that shows the working. It's not the device/brand that I have here. But it pretty much shows what it does.

Before I go measure again I want to check also another thing that came up in my mind. I disassembled the lcd and put it back together as I told you. As for alignment of the display, the contacts in the elastomeric connector are very close to each other. so the contact distances on the PCB and LCD are far bigger. Can't go wrong with making and unwanted cross connect was my idea. But I forgot that the PCB and the LCD itself should of course also be aligned properly to each other. I have to check if it can be miss aligned. But it's one thing to check before going measuring again.
And indeed these "V" voltages are fed to toshiba display drivers (three T6A39 column drivers and one T6A40 row driver). They are responsible for the multiplexing of these voltages to the right columns and rows. Now I have to find out if one of these chips is problematic or the LCD itself.
 
nickb 2/2/2017 3:41 AM
Thx for the link. That's commonly called an Octopus or sometimes 'component curve tracer' (very misleading name) - current on Y axis and Voltage on X. Dirty cheap component tester (a.k.a. ?Octopus? curve tracer) ? JAMMArcade.net It allows you see see the phase relationship between V & I easily.
 
dutch_anykey 2/6/2017 10:19 AM
Hi,

Short update.
Measured everything again. inputs/outputs of the toshiba T6A39's en T6A40. Can't find anything wrong. Again, disassembled the display and put it together again. Soldered a new LM234. For now it is working again, but still very sensitive to temperature changes on the 4,7 uF caps.

I ordered the LM324, didnt look any furhter on the details of this chip. But I checked the original one that I took of the first time. And it is a LM324M. Not sure if this would make a big difference, I checked some data sheets. And at least from the few doc's that I looked in, I can see that the LM324 actually can manage a bigger output current than the lm324M.So that would be a plus or the lm324. But I read from the LM324M specs that it has an internal temperature adjusting circuit, can't find that on the lm324 specs. Anyway I ordered the LM324M and will test it, also ordered new Panasonic 4,7 uF caps. Maybe the panasonic's are better then the "Wrth Elektronik" ones I have now.
Anyone can confirm differences in behaviour from the lm234 and lm324M?

Maurice
 
nickb 2/6/2017 11:39 AM
If possible, I would add a small resistor say 10 ohms between the LM324 and the driver chips. By looking at voltage drop over it using two scope probes in differential mode, you will be able to see if that is where the current is going. I would expect the LM324 to feel hot too if so much current is being drawn that it fails.

The caps should not be that temperature sensitive - that is very odd. I'd be tempted to remove the caps that attach to that output. The output impedance of the LM324's is very small up to 100KHz+ therefore I think you could remove the two caps that attach to the troublesome output just to see what happens. I wonder if that section might be oscillating.

I am not aware of any major differences between LM324 but I suppose one manufacturer will differ from the next.
 
dutch_anykey 2/8/2017 8:43 AM
Hi Nick,

Good advice regarding the 10 ohms resistor for measurements.
Also I followed up on the cap removal. It was getting messy. But I did a few things...
Firstly I got the LM324M and the panasonic 4,7uF caps in the mail. So I replaced it with the LM324...result garbled display. But....I have to admit that I caused that myself. When desoldering the old LM324, I used some flux. Apparently this flux went through the holes on the pcb (the through hole connection that connect to another trace on the other side of the board) So when opening the LCD assembly again I found flux between the elastomeric connector and the glass plate....pfffffff.
Cleaned everything with alcohol again and put it together....garbled screen again...
Ditched the 4,7 uF caps. same result. desoldered the lm324M and put back the older lm324...pronto...good screen.
I suspect I killed the lm324m when the flux was on the connector....but i'm not sure. Like I said, it is getting messy. Also the traces on the pcb are starting to get bad because of all the heat from soldering.

But at this moment it is working with a lm324 and no caps. I leave it like this for a while. Probably build the screen back into the mixer and leave it on for a day and see what happens.

I don't know about you...but at this moment I need some kind of success in my repairs...sometimes repairs go well, and sometimes nothing works...I find myself in the bad stage at this moment haha.

br
Maurice
 
dutch_anykey 2/9/2017 2:33 AM
Left it runnning for a few hours, and still going strong.
clear display, no heat sensitive symptoms.
I'm happy that it works now. But it is still bothering me that I don't know the real cause. The right thing to do would be soldering back the caps and start measuring like Nickb suggested. Start with checking what is going back into the negative inputs of the lm324. Maybe there the problem starts. Also the design of this voltage follower can be different I think. Why all the capacitors in series. Since the voltage coming out of the opamp output is regulated, the caps could be terminated to V- I think.
From the other hand...it works. And I don't want to go over cleaning the LCD again and risk loosing traces on the pcb. I'll save it till the time it brakes down again...and if it is still interesting to fix a ddx3216

Maurice
 
sazema 4/8/2017 4:56 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
Hi,
So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
By the way, I think you have to clean your PSU-fan a bit!

Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
V109.bex = Latest firmware
V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)

Do I need to install them both?
How can I see the installed version(s)

Ps.
If anyone needs the DDXUpdate, I can share it for you.

/Nisse
I know it's 2017 and your post is since 2012 but if you have that DDX Update software I need that too. I have same message "No valid program...". I hope you still have it.
 
Han 4/10/2017 1:43 PM
Quote Originally Posted by sazema View Post
I know it's 2017 and your post is since 2012 but if you have that DDX Update software I need that too. I have same message "No valid program...". I hope you still have it.
Hello, i attached the files
 
sazema 4/11/2017 1:16 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
Hello, i attached the files
Thanks for upload. And those files are just bex files. I think there is no valid connection with PC now after latest firmware update is broken. How to upload those to DDX if you have no PCMCI card?
I think that DDXUpdate v.1.11 application is standalone application, and when you run it, it recognizes connected DDX hardware etc.
 
Han 4/11/2017 5:14 AM
Quote Originally Posted by sazema View Post
Thanks for upload. And those files are just bex files. I think there is no valid connection with PC now after latest firmware update is broken. How to upload those to DDX if you have no PCMCI card?
I think that DDXUpdate v.1.11 application is standalone application, and when you run it, it recognizes connected DDX hardware etc.
Hello,

Do you have connection via midi (usb midi interface) or rs232 (usb rs232 interface)?
Han
 
sazema 4/11/2017 7:39 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
Hello,

Do you have connection via midi (usb midi interface) or rs232 (usb rs232 interface)?
Han
Yes, I have but RS232 seams to not work after this. That's the problem. Will try this tonight again.
 
Han 4/11/2017 10:51 AM
Quote Originally Posted by sazema View Post
Yes, I have but RS232 seams to not work after this. That's the problem. Will try this tonight again.
Hello,
you also need the communication program which was written for xp so in a w10 pc you should run it as software compatible for xp, i attached the software also...
 
sazema 4/12/2017 2:33 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
Hello,
you also need the communication program which was written for xp so in a w10 pc you should run it as software compatible for xp, i attached the software also...
I tried last night, XP mode, but it says "Unable to establish connection, Connection error".
Also tried with Windows 2000 old pc, same thing.

Now, I'm doubt in rs232 cable, today I will try to find a new one, or USB -> RS232 cable.

But, also I doubt, because software is broken in mixer that causing the problem with connection ?!?

Mixer still showing "NO VALID PROGRAM, restart update!" and nothing.

Here is excerpt from this site: http://fors.doctorproaudio.com/messages/32286.html

Take a look at the behringer website and find the solution, according to them doing the following solves the problem:

This is due to an interruption during the firmware update attempt. In this case, the EPROM flash memory is erased and the mixer does not turn on. We have emergency software (version 1.11) to assist you in these cases. Proceed as follows:
- Install the program on your computer
- Connect the DDX to the RS232 port
- Start the software.
- Choose the communications port (com) the DDX is connected to
- Press the "GROUP" button and turn on the mixer
- The update will start and will last approximately 10 minutes. Progress will be indicated.


Or this page: http://www.plzi.com/aanta/ddx3216.asp

When you get the fault description of an DDX3216 Program is not loaded, this is caused by an interruption during a firmware update attempt. In this case the flash eprom is erased and the mixer does not start up. There is an emergency tool (DDXupdate V1.11) available (Ask your BEHRINGER support dept.) To start up a DDX3216 when the firmware upgrade has failed. Proceed as follows:

Install the programm to your computer
Connect the DDX to the RS232 port
Start the software
Choose the com port the DDX is connected to
Press down the GROUP button and switch on the mixer
Update will start and last about 10 minutes. Progress is displayed.


I contacted Behringer support also, but they provide to me files same as provided here, transfer app + firmware versions.

PS: These days DDXUpdate v.1.11 is pure gold
 
dutch_anykey 4/12/2017 3:08 AM
I missed a few posts I see

I know I was fighting this as well. But I managed to do it from a windows 7 machine via rs232. (Actually a laptop in a docking bay. Most docking stations still have a rs232 port on it). The errors from the program sound familiar, but not always true.
When I get home I will check what rs232 cable I was using and maybe shoot a short vid.
New broken 3216 on my bench here. Missing 17 volt lines, fixed the 17 volts, but now missing the 5 volts on that same part of the psu. Maybe open a new thread for it.

br
Maurice
 
sazema 4/12/2017 7:15 AM
Quote Originally Posted by dutch_anykey View Post
I missed a few posts I see

I know I was fighting this as well. But I managed to do it from a windows 7 machine via rs232. (Actually a laptop in a docking bay. Most docking stations still have a rs232 port on it). The errors from the program sound familiar, but not always true.
When I get home I will check what rs232 cable I was using and maybe shoot a short vid.
New broken 3216 on my bench here. Missing 17 volt lines, fixed the 17 volts, but now missing the 5 volts on that same part of the psu. Maybe open a new thread for it.

br
Maurice

No, it's impossible to do anything in current state with just a cable and transfer software, because indeed there is no valid software on CHIP.
CHIP must be programmed with programmer or with that dedicated software - but no longer exists. Maybe, some of you has in archive somewhere, and that's all.
 
dutch_anykey 4/12/2017 8:05 AM
oow o.k. your eeprom is corrupted?
I found these files as well somewhere on the forum here. Can't remember where exactly. Let me know if you can't find them. I will search on my p.c. this evening.
I haven't done it myself, but you have a programmer?

br
Maurice
 
sazema 4/13/2017 2:38 PM
Quote Originally Posted by dutch_anykey View Post
oow o.k. your eeprom is corrupted?
I found these files as well somewhere on the forum here. Can't remember where exactly. Let me know if you can't find them. I will search on my p.c. this evening.
I haven't done it myself, but you have a programmer?

br
Maurice
Yes, a friend of mine knows how to program eprom, we will see.
 
sazema 5/17/2017 12:51 AM
Ok, just to inform you, I solved issue.

As we have 5 chips, 1 is unique, rest 4 chips are identical, and just one note: 4 chips are writable and programmable while 1 unique chip is writable only once and can't be programmed, it's write protected by design.
So, friend of mine, just do programming of 4 chips and mixer started to work correctly.
 
Drummer1987 6/18/2017 1:15 PM
HELP PLEASE!!
Hi
I'm new one here.....I have my ddx mixer....it's working all the time fine but one day I turn on the ddx and all led's are turn on....display dead....feders dont work....nothing....i put microphone and signal lamp are showe that are a signal input and I do not test for output signal works :/
on picture see's problem....
What do you think what the problem is??

Please help me some how [ATTACH=CONFIG]43811[/ATTACH]